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Anti-fighting fans how do you like this idea?

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Old
03-21-2012, 03:48 PM
  #51
Andong Wang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
How you somone be a hockey fan and not like fighting?
Maybe because they like hockey?

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Old
03-21-2012, 03:49 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Go watch basketball if you do not enjoy this sport as it is.
I'll watch hockey and enjoy the freedom to criticize, thanks.

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03-21-2012, 03:53 PM
  #53
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There are plenty of sports that don't involve fighting, please pick one & move on. Leave us Hockey fans to enjoy our game.

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03-21-2012, 03:55 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
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There are plenty of sports that don't involve fighting, please pick one & move on. Leave us Hockey fans to enjoy our game.
So if I criticize America should "you Americans" (because apparently you are the authority and own the country) be allowed to kick me out?

Because I'm pretty sure I love my country and I love hockey.

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03-21-2012, 03:56 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
"We need to get rid of fights after clean hits, and the only way to do that is by removing the penalty for someone jumping another player!"
Players don't get the pleasure of looking at the replay first, to see if it was clean or not. They see their star player laying on the ice, they're going to react.

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03-21-2012, 03:57 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
If you don't like fighting in hockey, we don't want you as a fan anyway. Go enjoy basketball.
100% agreed.

I hate the casual new fans trying to change the sport.

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03-21-2012, 03:58 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by JimsDoors View Post
Players don't get the pleasure of looking at the replay first, to see if it was clean or not. They see their star player on the ice, they're going to react.
I agree, it is a legitimate enough excuse for a fight.

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03-21-2012, 03:59 PM
  #58
Oates2Neely
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Originally Posted by malPHONEY View Post
So if I criticize America should "you Americans" (because apparently you are the authority and own the country) be allowed to kick me out?

Because I'm pretty sure I love my country and I love hockey.
Hockey or Politics thread??

Like my late grandfather said: "You dona lika da fights, turna offa da televisia"

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03-21-2012, 04:01 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by StreetSharks View Post
100% agreed.

I hate the casual new fans trying to change the sport.
1) I'm voicing an opinion, not trying to change the sport.

2) I'm not a "casual fan."

3) It's sad that only "casual fans" are capable of making arguments. Saying "if you criticize any aspect of fighting you're not a true hockey fan" is a poor excuse for an argument.

Fighting is not hockey. It's a PART of hockey. There have been plenty of great games without fighting just as there have been plenty of great games with good fights.

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03-21-2012, 04:01 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
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There are plenty of sports that don't involve fighting, please pick one & move on. Leave us Hockey fans to enjoy our game.
Are you saying I'm not a hockey fan?

Your ignorance annoys me, please stop.

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Old
03-21-2012, 04:01 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetSharks View Post
100% agreed.

I hate the casual new fans trying to change the sport.
Staged fights right off a faceoff were not part of the "old game"

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Old
03-21-2012, 04:02 PM
  #62
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The NHL continues to say no more head shots and we're cracking down, but have no problem with bare fisted fist fights.

I don't want fist fights banned but seems like they're being hypocritical.

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Old
03-21-2012, 04:02 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Hockey or Politics thread??

Like my late grandfather said: "You dona lika da fights, turna offa da televisia"
It's a basic analogy. You're response is just an excuse to ignore it.

Criticizing a component of hockey doesn't mean you are not a "true fan." It's actually quite insulting...to my intelligence.

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03-21-2012, 04:04 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by malPHONEY View Post
I like fighting, but meaningful fighting.

Talentless thug fighting useless goon waters it down IMO.
Pretty much this.

Fighting is fine but talentless goons who are in the league for the sole purpose of fighting are lame.

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03-21-2012, 04:05 PM
  #65
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I don't think its necessary. Look at Olympic hockey, there's no fighting and the game is beautiful. Playoff hockey has pretty much no fighting and its way better than the regular season which has fighting

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03-21-2012, 04:09 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
Pretty much this.

Fighting is fine but talentless goons who are in the league for the sole purpose of fighting are lame.
Yep. There is no equivalent to a Trevor Gillies in any other sport.

You need some sort of talent to make it in the NBA, MLB, NFL, FIFA, etc.

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03-21-2012, 04:12 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Just a quick note on the development of fighting over time....

I set a high benchmark of ~4 penalty minutes per game over time, and a low one of ~3 penalty minutes per game. The idea is that, with fighting always being a five-minute major, anyone who's going nuts with fighting would show up no matter what.

From the 1931-32 season to the 1945-46 season, there were either 48 or 50 games played in a season. During those 15 years, despite the obvious drop in talent during the war years, not a single player ever reached 192 penalty minutes in a season (48 x 4). During that same span, only Red Horner reached 144 (48 x 3), and his totals were 144, 146, and 167. No other individual player reached those levels even once.

From 1946-47 to 1948-49, the season was 60 games. Not a single player reached 180 penalty minutes in a season (60 x 3), let alone 240.

From 1949-50 to 1966-67, the schedule expanded to 70 games. Howie Young, who many regarded as absolutely insane, was the only player to hit 210 penalty minutes (70 x 3), and he had 267 in 1962-63. That's under the higher mark for this era, which would be 280.

Through the entire stabilizing period up through the first expansion, only two players had 3 PIMs per game (four man-seasons), and none had 4.

The schedule then went to 74, then 76, then 78 games in short order. During this period (1967-68 to 1973-74), there were six man-seasons and five players who hit the 3 PIM threshold, and Dave Schultz who exceeded 4 PIMs (348 in the 78-game 1973-74 season).

In the first 43 years that I'm looking at, there were 10 man-seasons and 7 players who exceeded 3 PIMs per game. One player and one man-season exceeded 4 PIMs.

From 1974-75 to the present (36 seasons; I'm not looking at 1994-95), there have been 201 man-seasons with 3 PIMs per game, and an additional 46 that exceeded 4 PIMs per game. I don't even know how many different players compose those 247 man-seasons, but most of the names are familiar and repeat several times. 1994-95 has a low benchmark of 144 PIMs (48 x 3). 11 players exceeded that, and Enrico Ciccone exceeded 4 per game. Basically, the total era has had 212 man-seasons above 3, and 47 that exceeded 4.

Now, keep in mind that this is simply the number of scheduled games times penalty minutes. Most of these guys didn't play in every game, and some of them didn't come close to playing even 80% of the games. Their actual PIM/games played ratio is actually much higher than 3 or 4, and I'm sure many more players exceeded these levels on their own without them showing up due to playing too few games to register a freakishly high number.
Without breaking down majors, minors, misconducts, and game misconducts this really proves nothing. In the past a guy instigates a fight he received a 5 minute penalty a guy instigates a fight now he gets 17 PIMs it turns out the guys jersey wasnt tied down now he has 27 PIMs, just knowing some one had 17 PIMs one person could think he had 3 fights and 1 minor or 1 fight and 6 minors or any other possible combination If you see a guy has 27 Pims you might think they guy had 5 fights and 1 minor or 1 fight and 11 minors. I know i didnt take into consideration after 3 fights in a game you get ejected but the point is the same without knowing what the PIMs were for you cant say people are fighting more or less than in other eras.

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03-21-2012, 04:34 PM
  #68
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Heres idea...let the players decide for themselves if they want to get punched in the face or not

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03-21-2012, 04:39 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
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There are plenty of sports that don't involve fighting, please pick one & move on. Leave us Hockey fans to enjoy our game.
MMA
Boxing

See, I can do that do.

Fighting is as much of a neccesary part in hockey as blindside elbows to the head are.

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03-21-2012, 04:48 PM
  #70
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Setting a cap on fights is dumb. If my tough guys are at their cap of fights, then someone on the other team can cheapshot my players or run my goalie without any repercussions at all.

What is so bad about fighting anyway? The concussions aren't coming from fighting.

Also, can someone tell me what a "staged" fight is? I still don't know.

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03-21-2012, 04:49 PM
  #71
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What is it, 3 fights and you're out? Maybe narrow it down to 2.

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03-21-2012, 04:52 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by 27Niedermayer View Post
Setting a cap on fights is dumb. If my tough guys are at their cap of fights, then someone on the other team can cheapshot my players or run my goalie without any repercussions at all.

What is so bad about fighting anyway? The concussions aren't coming from fighting.

Also, can someone tell me what a "staged" fight is? I still don't know.
I wouldn't necessarily call it staged, but it's having to watch talentless guys like Trevor Gillies fight the other team's talentless guy just for the sake of fighting that angers me day in and day out. It just waters the game down.

The day in which every player in the NHL is there because he has any ounce of talent is the day I'll stop complaining.

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03-21-2012, 05:00 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by drs151 View Post
If you couldnt get you're way about removing fighting from hockey would this be a good substitute?

I know the whole head trauma argument is a good case made by you fans. So heres what I prupose

1. A limit on how many fights you can have in a season before heavy suspensions and fines. I dont know what a good number would be but lets say 10.

2. If you suffer a concussion in a fight you are not aloud to fight for the rest of the season. If the players concussion is so bad that it goes longer than a year then obviously until you are cleared to play. This would prevent doctors from clearing lesser end players quicker. Also have some independant doctors diagnose the players (I dont know if this is done or not already)


I think this would force teams to make sure they get the best 3rd and 4th line players available with the fear of their players not being able to fight after a concussion. I guess they could get an AHLer or something after a players concussion so maybe only original NHL rosters are aloud to fight unless they are brining up players that have a certain high degree of offensive production (then obviously they wouldnt be goons and not big fighters anyways)

All of these circumstances would then get rid of the so called goons which should lower staged fights which I believe many people hate anyways.


So this post can be made for anyone really not just anti fighters. I am very aware more and more people are viewing fighting differently. Surely there has to be a common ground?

I realize im probably going to get ripped apart on this as Im not very good at coming up with new ideas for the game. So be nice. Its just something Ive been thinking about that a middle ground should beable to satisfy the large majority of the fans.
I like your first idea.

The fights that I enjoy watching happen as a part of the game and are typically from combatants that do fight less than 10 times a year so I don't think it would eliminate any of what the majority of fans seem to enjoy about fighting. What it would eliminate are the staged fights from "goons" if you want to call them that and I wouldn't hate to see those gone honestly.

Your second point I don't think would realistically work and honestly with a rule like the first one I don't think there would be much need for it. Concussions from fights don't seem to be any more common than concussions from any other plays during a game and I don't think there would need to be a guidline on what a player does once they return to action.

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03-21-2012, 05:04 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by shorton724 View Post
Without breaking down majors, minors, misconducts, and game misconducts this really proves nothing. In the past a guy instigates a fight he received a 5 minute penalty a guy instigates a fight now he gets 17 PIMs it turns out the guys jersey wasnt tied down now he has 27 PIMs, just knowing some one had 17 PIMs one person could think he had 3 fights and 1 minor or 1 fight and 6 minors or any other possible combination If you see a guy has 27 Pims you might think they guy had 5 fights and 1 minor or 1 fight and 11 minors. I know i didnt take into consideration after 3 fights in a game you get ejected but the point is the same without knowing what the PIMs were for you cant say people are fighting more or less than in other eras.
Okay, let's break it down via pre- and post-instigator rule.

From 1974-75 to 1991-92, there were 139 man-seasons of over 3 PIMs/game (240), and an additional 38 of over 4 (320 PIMs).

From 1992-93 to the present, there have been 73 man-seasons of over 3 PIMs/game, and an additional 9 man-seasons of over 4.

That's a pretty striking difference right there.

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03-21-2012, 05:06 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by malPHONEY View Post
I wouldn't necessarily call it staged, but it's having to watch talentless guys like Trevor Gillies fight the other team's talentless guy just for the sake of fighting that angers me day in and day out. It just waters the game down.

The day in which every player in the NHL is there because he has any ounce of talent is the day I'll stop complaining.
Make it part of the deal for the new CBA. Cut the active roster by 1 (23 to 22) and the dressed roster by 1 (18 to 17), with the tradeoff being that there will be two new expansion teams by the end of the new CBA expiring.

That would result in 30 total roster spots being lost, but 44 being added.

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