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Michael Grange on Burke: Tough to tolerate failure

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Old
03-21-2012, 10:18 AM
  #26
Pierre Gotye
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Burke needs to be rid of Lombardi, Connolly. They've barely contributed.

He needs to figure out if he wants to keep Franson or Schenn, play them or don't bench them. If you bench them, then trade them.

Same for Komisarek.

This goaltending duo isn't going to steal a season. It can't prevail when the club struggles, and it needs to be improved.

Get some size in the lineup.

Play Kadri or trade him. His worth deteriorates everyday he's with the Marlies.

Do what you can to land an elite center, even if it means selling a chunk of the farm.

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03-21-2012, 10:21 AM
  #27
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Going to be a massive off-season. Maybe the most important of Burke's life. Only 2 fishing trips maximum.

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Old
03-21-2012, 10:27 AM
  #28
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Most of you can't handle a two-month slide, but are calling for another 5 years?

Ouf.

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Old
03-21-2012, 10:29 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Brentbreakaway23 View Post
Burke needs to be rid of Lombardi, Connolly. They've barely contributed.

He needs to figure out if he wants to keep Franson or Schenn, play them or don't bench them. If you bench them, then trade them.

Same for Komisarek.

This goaltending duo isn't going to steal a season. It can't prevail when the club struggles, and it needs to be improved.

Get some size in the lineup.

Play Kadri or trade him. His worth deteriorates everyday he's with the Marlies.

Do what you can to land an elite center, even if it means selling a chunk of the farm.
Come again? Care to explain?

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Old
03-21-2012, 10:29 AM
  #30
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I'm glad all of these journalists had the foresight to come out and point out all of these problems early in the season instead of pouncing on this collapse like a bunch of scavengers looking for scraps.

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Old
03-21-2012, 10:55 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post
I dont get why we should completely blow it up, or of we do, I would like to get at least two playoff years down. Tired of being the laughingstock of the league.

If I were GM I would go all out.

Trade schenn + for brown
Connolly for a third
If calgary doesnt like Oli's demands, they can have lombardi.
Armstrong to the sharks.
Komisarek to the islanders.
Liles to the devils?
Sign Stoll/ Gaustad, trade bozak for a second
Trade Mac + 2nd for a decent defenseman. I cant think of a name. A good number 4.
Who are the UFA goalies this year? We need to sign one or claim a reclamation project. Vokoun?
The only way I trade Lupes is if we get a top D or top Goalie in return. Lupul is clutch and doesnt **** up. Those are the type of players we need.

Im not going to trade him for another forward unless he is a powerforward center, a la benn.

As for our pick. If we miss out on grigorenko,I would trade down a couple of spots or trade the pick for a 1C (maybe LA again).

Wont be a popular choice, but I would honestly look to move Keseel.
LA could use some scoring, maybe a deal involving Dustin Brown and Bernier coming back in return.

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Old
03-21-2012, 11:26 AM
  #32
Beleafer4
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Originally Posted by Dexter Doakes View Post
Wont be a popular choice, but I would honestly look to move Keseel.
LA could use some scoring, maybe a deal involving Dustin Brown and Bernier coming back in return.
Once we trade kessel, many on this board will realize just how impotent our offense is.

Without kessel, who do we have? We dont know if lupul is a one year wonder and grabovski is good but kind of streaky. Kulemin is a wildcard and none of our prospects are bluechippers.

Brown produces at a 55+ point clip with kopitar but who knows how he does with Grabbo. Bernier isnt proven. I think he is a great prospect but that trade can really backfire. At best it will be even.

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Old
03-21-2012, 11:43 AM
  #33
ansoncarter
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Originally Posted by Ometheus View Post
Come again? Care to explain?
players improve by adapting to their competition

kadri has wasted two years adapting to ahl level hockey

(probably not be what the guy you quoted meant, just my opinion)

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Old
03-21-2012, 12:10 PM
  #34
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With the way the season is ending - who knows what to do next year?
Most of these players don't deserve to be on the team next year - they have potential - but who do you keep and is traded?

Well Burke has one summer to figure it out - (actually he had 4 years but this is current turd pile that he needs to sift for a few diamonds)

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Old
03-21-2012, 12:13 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Soul Vibe Funk View Post
Far from it. The whole team is a ****ing disaster. So many flaws/ issues you cant just mention one area.
Not that far. Realistic expectations had them as a borderline playoff team (7 - 10), with decent Goaltending they'd be right around that spot.

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Old
03-21-2012, 12:15 PM
  #36
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Imagine if Lupul didnt turn his career around and have a career year. It could have easily gone the other way with his past injury problems. Where would we be now?? It would be a sad sad team with a single first liner. Burke should be grateful that luckily for him at least that gamble turned out.

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Old
03-21-2012, 12:50 PM
  #37
Hero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post
I dont get why we should completely blow it up, or of we do, I would like to get at least two playoff years down. Tired of being the laughingstock of the league.

If I were GM I would go all out.

Trade schenn + for brown
Connolly for a third
If calgary doesnt like Oli's demands, they can have lombardi.
Armstrong to the sharks.
Komisarek to the islanders.
Liles to the devils?
Sign Stoll/ Gaustad, trade bozak for a second
Trade Mac + 2nd for a decent defenseman. I cant think of a name. A good number 4.
Who are the UFA goalies this year? We need to sign one or claim a reclamation project. Vokoun?
The only way I trade Lupes is if we get a top D or top Goalie in return. Lupul is clutch and doesnt **** up. Those are the type of players we need.

Im not going to trade him for another forward unless he is a powerforward center, a la benn.

As for our pick. If we miss out on grigorenko,I would trade down a couple of spots or trade the pick for a 1C (maybe LA again).
What is this?

Then 2 yrs later,
Trade Brown + for _____
Need depth at C
Get speed on the bottom 6
TRADE STOLL
TRADE GSUATSED
Drop all D-men.

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Old
03-21-2012, 05:25 PM
  #38
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Sens fan coming in peace..

The number one problem in my opinion is the lack of on-ice leadership.

Ottawa was lucky enough to have Chris Neil, Alfie, Chris Phillips and even Spezza to a certain extent, along with veteran d-men for our rebuild.

Toronto doesn't have any of this, and a 8-0 beating by the Bruins is the kind of thing leadership on the ice can stop.. Not to say the game wouldn't have been lost after the first 4 goals, but things should've stopped there..

Go out and get some vets, they don't have to be your best player(s) but they need to provide that locker room love and on-ice leadership...


just a thought

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Old
03-21-2012, 05:46 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ansoncarter View Post
players improve by adapting to their competition

kadri has wasted two years adapting to ahl level hockey

(probably not be what the guy you quoted meant, just my opinion)
That's bull. Not every prospect can step in and contribute in his first 2 seasons, Kadri has been called up a few times and looked good at times and not so good at times. He didn't really have much in the lines of line mates either. There are lots of players who take a year or two or three to develop their games in the AHL or overseas and by no means is Kadri or any other prospect wasting their time when he's playing in a development league and getting big game minutes. common ffs ...

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Old
03-21-2012, 06:05 PM
  #40
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I'm probably the biggest Kadri slappy on Earth, I absolutely love the kid. I think he has a boatload of talent, his hands are some of the best I've seen in a long time, and if we trade him, it will hurt us, I guarantee it. But even I'm of the mind that he has to come in and nail down a roster spot next season. The longer he shows he's not ready, the harder it's going to be to beat out the prospects we'll continually draft in high slots.

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Old
03-21-2012, 06:17 PM
  #41
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This year and last year the leafs had a great winning record with Kadri in the lineup. Even if he didn't score he tended to draw penalties or lay some big hits which amped up his teammates and make the games more physical and competitive. If they had have stuck with the lineup of late last season and rolled with it during the year they would have made the playoffs; too bad injuries to key guys Reimer and Armstrong screwed up that team chemistry.

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Old
03-21-2012, 06:46 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stassino View Post
Sens fan coming in peace..

The number one problem in my opinion is the lack of on-ice leadership.

Ottawa was lucky enough to have Chris Neil, Alfie, Chris Phillips and even Spezza to a certain extent, along with veteran d-men for our rebuild.

Toronto doesn't have any of this, and a 8-0 beating by the Bruins is the kind of thing leadership on the ice can stop.. Not to say the game wouldn't have been lost after the first 4 goals, but things should've stopped there..

Go out and get some vets, they don't have to be your best player(s) but they need to provide that locker room love and on-ice leadership...


just a thought
They've also had more stable goaltending, but I agree, I noticed that the other game

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Old
03-21-2012, 06:56 PM
  #43
Jerkini
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Originally Posted by Soul Vibe Funk View Post
Far from it. The whole team is a ****ing disaster. So many flaws/ issues you cant just mention one area.
Top flight goaltending can mask a lot of flaws. All we need to do is look at Pat Quinn's Leafs teams.

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Old
03-21-2012, 07:02 PM
  #44
Kyle Doobas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stassino View Post
Sens fan coming in peace..

The number one problem in my opinion is the lack of on-ice leadership.

Ottawa was lucky enough to have Chris Neil, Alfie, Chris Phillips and even Spezza to a certain extent, along with veteran d-men for our rebuild.

Toronto doesn't have any of this, and a 8-0 beating by the Bruins is the kind of thing leadership on the ice can stop.. Not to say the game wouldn't have been lost after the first 4 goals, but things should've stopped there..

Go out and get some vets, they don't have to be your best player(s) but they need to provide that locker room love and on-ice leadership...


just a thought
Nail, meet head.

Burke needs forget about Parise/Suter/Nash/whoever this off-season and focus on shipping out some of the dead weight on our third/fourth lines and replacing them with guys like Gaustad, Moen, Kelly, Pahlsson, McClement, Prust, etc.

Some of his biggest blunders since arriving in Toronto have been consistently passing on guys like Eric Belanger, Scott Hannan, Jason Arnott, Vaclav Prospal, John Madden, Marty Reasoner, etc., off-season after off-season after off-season. Burke talks about how these types of players don't fit their 'vision' of a young team, but it's exactly this silly mentality that nobody past their mid-twenties can have a spot on our roster which has resulted in this inconsistency we've been seeing. Who are the young guys supposed to learn from and lean on when the team struggles? No one, and so when we finally hit a roadblock, the season is over.


Last edited by Kyle Doobas: 03-21-2012 at 07:26 PM.
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Old
03-21-2012, 07:19 PM
  #45
Beleafer4
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Originally Posted by hero View Post
What is this?

Then 2 yrs later,
Trade Brown + for _____
Need depth at C
Get speed on the bottom 6
TRADE STOLL
TRADE GSUATSED
Drop all D-men.
Why would we trade brown? I know why I want schenn gone, he has hurt the team this year. Brown is a proven perrenial 55+point powerforward with character.

This would be my lineup.
Lupul-Grigorenko/Galchenyuk/Kadri/Colborne/1C obtained from trading our pick +/Kessel
Brown-Grabovski-Kulemin
Ashton-Stoll/Gaustad-Frattin/Kadri
Brown-Steckel-Rosehill

Dion-Gunner
Gardiner-D-man
Franson-Holzer/Blacker

Vokoun
Reimer
C depth? We would have that. But moreover, we would have better depth. Who cares about depth at C when it is filled with lombardis and Connollys.
Speed in Bottom 6? Rosehill, Brown, Frattin and Ashton have speed

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Old
03-21-2012, 07:21 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Mr Ball Hockey View Post
Very well written IMO. And a lot of good points.

Maybe trading for guys, young guys, that fit Carlyle's system is the way to go. Its how Anaheim won. Big, mean, two way team. Though it helps having two HoF defensemen and, at the time, a great starting goalie.
Imo this is what needs to be done. Burke gave Wilson the players to compliment his style and system and that didn't work out. Time to give Carlyle the players for him to execute his system with.
I for one welcome the new upcoming change and think it's a change that Burke has wanted all along. Hopefully this is what Burke was talking about when he first arrived, when he was going to build a team based on toughness and not being an easy team to face against.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stassino View Post
Sens fan coming in peace..

The number one problem in my opinion is the lack of on-ice leadership.

Ottawa was lucky enough to have Chris Neil, Alfie, Chris Phillips and even Spezza to a certain extent, along with veteran d-men for our rebuild.

Toronto doesn't have any of this, and a 8-0 beating by the Bruins is the kind of thing leadership on the ice can stop.. Not to say the game wouldn't have been lost after the first 4 goals, but things should've stopped there..

Go out and get some vets, they don't have to be your best player(s) but they need to provide that locker room love and on-ice leadership...


just a thought
I've mentioned it before and this is exactly what I was saying. Having Alfie, the longest serving captain for the Sens, lead the young guys (especially Karlsson) has really got to benefit them.

The Leafs needed to keep their Sundin or their Roberts and I think this rebuild would have got very differently.

This is an area where Fletcher messed up trying to run all the vets out of town. He wanted to clean house for the next GM but he went overkill with it. Burke comes to a very bare NHL team prospect wise but also very bare leadership wise, and that's very hard to put back together imo.


Last edited by Liminality: 03-21-2012 at 07:34 PM.
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Old
03-21-2012, 07:43 PM
  #47
Duffman955
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Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
As long as he doesn't trade young assets or 1st round picks idc what burke does. Stick to the blueprint burke
What blue print?

The team was a pile of **** when he took over.

4 years later and the pile of **** has grown

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Old
03-21-2012, 08:08 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by ansoncarter View Post
players improve by adapting to their competition

kadri has wasted two years adapting to ahl level hockey

(probably not be what the guy you quoted meant, just my opinion)
Yeah, Bobby Ryan wasted his time in the AHL as well oh, wait...

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Old
03-21-2012, 08:18 PM
  #49
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So.... Rip it down and start again?.... This thing is gonna be a 10 year rebuild by the time we see the playoffs
To answer your question yes. You can thank Mr.Burke for that.

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Old
03-21-2012, 08:27 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Soul Vibe Funk View Post
Far from it. The whole team is a ****ing disaster. So many flaws/ issues you cant just mention one area.
Lemme guess,2months ago Leafs were cup contenders and now we're the worst team in hockey history?

Fans like you make me sick. The team isn't all that bad, the team cracked under the pressure. That doesn't make this a bad hockey club just tinkering and better goal tending and we will make 6-8th spot. Upgrade in certain areas like a #1 centre and we can hit 4-6.

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