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Old
03-21-2012, 11:08 AM
  #1
Ometheus
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The State of Mind

The Hypocrisy

I've noticed recently that the majority of the fanbase are blatant hypocrites.

I say this because the MLSE fanbase (from here on, referred to as 'we', because I am apart of all of you) call out the athletes-the competitors- for savagely crumbling when the going gets tough...

Yet we, as observers, cannot even bear to watch it without breaking down into a giant pile full of sadistic turmoil. We break apart and start bickering with each other, and lose both our drive and unity as a fanbase. Twist it into something harmful. We fracture like a window into broken glass.

Gather our skirts and take the hits like men

All the commentary--the media--the chants--the I-know-better-improvement rants; they have all only built up our sense of entitlement and suffocated both our team's confidence and drive.

In this atmosphere, we know for certain the media and commentary gets back to the players-- in one form or another. We're doing damage in our collapse as a fanbase. We have a habit to complain and hate for better or worse. Toughen up as fans, and try to cheer for better or worse.

If we want the team, the organization, to straighten their backs and fight with a fire, maybe we should light that fire under them--NO! not with our critic-hate-ridden complaints. With fiery support and the will to push the team forward.

How about when our champ is knocked down onto the mat, we not heckle and mock them for falling. We cheer and support them, encouraging them to stand back up and embolden their hearts.

A million people baying for blood can shrink you. A million people calling out support can motivate you to win.

That's what we want, right?

To win.

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03-21-2012, 11:16 AM
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Falcon Punch
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I agree, so many retired leaf players such as Sundin, Gilmour...etc. Have come out in the media and used their ceremony speeches to urge fans to cheer the team on.

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03-21-2012, 11:32 AM
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DirtyDion03
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Everyone around here should read this..

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03-21-2012, 11:50 AM
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I watch our beloved Leafs fanatically and only voice words of encouragement. Your right the whole state of mind in the leaf nation needs change. What we need to do is stop buying merchandise and give M.L.S.E the cold shoulder. The players can only do as well as what given to them. Having a good team means having good nhl caliber players. M.L.S.E is to blame, not the players. "rant"

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03-21-2012, 11:51 AM
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People want change because they are unhappy with the product. Of course they will voice their displeasure. So many broken promises.

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03-21-2012, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ometheus View Post
The Hypocrisy

I've noticed recently that the majority of the fanbase are blatant hypocrites.

I say this because the MLSE fanbase (from here on, referred to as 'we', because I am apart of all of you) call out the athletes-the competitors- for savagely crumbling when the going gets tough...

Yet we, as observers, cannot even bear to watch it without breaking down into a giant pile full of sadistic turmoil. We break apart and start bickering with each other, and lose both our drive and unity as a fanbase. Twist it into something harmful. We fracture like a window into broken glass.

Gather our skirts and take the hits like men

All the commentary--the media--the chants--the I-know-better-improvement rants; they have all only built up our sense of entitlement and suffocated both our team's confidence and drive.

In this atmosphere, we know for certain the media and commentary gets back to the players-- in one form or another. We're doing damage in our collapse as a fanbase. We have a habit to complain and hate for better or worse. Toughen up as fans, and try to cheer for better or worse.

If we want the team, the organization, to straighten their backs and fight with a fire, maybe we should light that fire under them--NO! not with our critic-hate-ridden complaints. With fiery support and the will to push the team forward.

How about when our champ is knocked down onto the mat, we not heckle and mock them for falling. We cheer and support them, encouraging them to stand back up and embolden their hearts.

A million people baying for blood can shrink you. A million people calling out support can motivate you to win.

That's what we want, right?

To win.
That was a great post and very well-written and sums up exactly how fans shoudl be!

However, get ready because people are already reading and perculating! The outrage is growing and soon will come the "The media is not an excuse" the "crazy hockey market is not an excuse" - Burke shoudl fall on his sword!

I commend your effort but do not expect many of the board members to feel the same!

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03-21-2012, 11:57 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
People want change because they are unhappy with the product. Of course they will voice their displeasure. So many broken promises.
And here's the loudest!

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03-21-2012, 12:01 PM
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Ometheus
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Gatorade, I agree that we all want change. What I am pointing out is the method in which we are taking to achieve that change.

Our team is on the ground, and we want change. We want them to get back up; to fight.

Can we attribute to that by calling for heads and berating them for a poor performance; or can we support them and urge them to get back on their feet and champion us.

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03-21-2012, 12:07 PM
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I agree in spirit, however, this situation is 40+ years in the making.

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03-21-2012, 12:08 PM
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One Man Wolfpack
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This was well thought out and written. I applaud your optimism.

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03-21-2012, 12:09 PM
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You have to be kidding me. If the team showed any desire to compete the fans wouldn't boo them out of the rink. It is pretty easy to see when players shy away from contact, when they make the soft play, when the quit on a play.

If I was management these players would be riding the bus and staying in motel 6 for the rest of the season. They can have the perks of a professional team when they start playing like one.

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03-21-2012, 12:12 PM
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Grabowaffle84
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Personally I don't think fans should be told how they are suppose to feel. We are the way we are because this is reality. Your talking about a perfect world which does not exist.

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03-21-2012, 12:14 PM
  #13
Leafsman
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Originally Posted by Ometheus View Post
Gatorade, I agree that we all want change. What I am pointing out is the method in which we are taking to achieve that change.

Our team is on the ground, and we want change. We want them to get back up; to fight.

Can we attribute to that by calling for heads and berating them for a poor performance; or can we support them and urge them to get back on their feet and champion us.
There is ZERO point reasoning with people that feel there were "broken promises" because first you have to convince them there were no promises??

There were estimations and expectations but rebuilds/retools aren't exact sciences and don't have exact steps to follow. If peices aren't available then you have to do other things.

People have to get over the notion that this was going to be a quick and painless short rebuild! That every trade was a win and every signing was a success. It was going to get far worse before it got better!

Granted Burke said it shoudln't take 5 years but guess what, it is? You don;t fire your contractor cause he takes longer than he thought! Half thetime it's because your house was in worse shape!

Burke shouldn't have said it was going to be quicker but whatever, only in Toronto shoudl a GM be fired over a soundbyte!

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03-21-2012, 12:16 PM
  #14
Ometheus
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Originally Posted by Grabowaffle84 View Post
Personally I don't think fans should be told how they are suppose to feel. We are the way we are because this is reality. Your talking about a perfect world which does not exist.


I'm not sure I understand the point you wanted to get across. Can you elaborate on each of your three sentences?

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03-21-2012, 12:17 PM
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I'm sorry but I just don't agree with this at all. So while our Leafs are getting savagely beat down by the Bruins, we must cheer and support them on and on? After Seguin scores to put us down 8-0 let's all stand up and chant "Go Leafs Go" with pride and dignity? That team on the ice didn't show a shred of dignity, why should we? It really is telling that the best thing we had to talk about was how Komisarek tried to stand up for the Leafs, then got beat down back into submission. Should I be lining up at the tunnel to high five the players off the ice saying, "Well you went out and tried, nice work!"

I've supported this team my entire life so far and will continue to do so but it's run by an absolute joke of an organization, and honestly good on leafs nation for letting them know. Longest cupless streak, 9 years of no playoffs and our best possible scenario at this point is that we hired a GM who MIGHT be able to finally scrap us into playoffs at the end of his 5 year "accelerated retool". People are saying we don't have the full patience for a full rebuild, well we just basically went through one (four straight top ten picks) and have very little to show for it. What does that tell you? Maybe I'm alone in this one, but I'm tired of cheering for a team that is the joke of the NHL.

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03-21-2012, 12:17 PM
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I agree with you and this needs to start at the top and work its way down. And that means from Burke.

Burke could do great job leading the fan base in that direction by calling out the problem, some of the mistakes and things that didn't work out and his intentions to fix this. Fans can wish and hope all we want for success - but we need serious strong leadership from Burke if this is to get decent momentum and a chance of success.

So I agree fans can be supportive but they need to see the same level of support and sincerity from the GM else they will continue to be jaded and vent their frustration

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03-21-2012, 12:21 PM
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blacknite001
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I agree with you; however I can understand why fans are upset. Its been many years since the playoffs, and fans are angry. I don't see them really mad at players, sure all of us from time to time get mad for us signing a guy or playing a guy(Why are we playing Komi????) but mad at management.

When Burke took over fans wanted us to build a core group of guys from drafting, like how the Pens did it, instead Burke decided to get players from trading and getting us FA, as a way to fast track a rebuild. A lot of fans bought into that (not me though if there was a fast way to rebuild everyone would be doing it). Years later we are pretty much in the same place we were before burke took over. It also doesn't help when you say were going for the playoffs and miss it (though can a team really tell their fanbase that they are not going to make the playoffs and tank? ).

I think fans are mad that management hasn't put together a good enough team and are vocing their displeasure, which is why they are calling out Burke and Ron, I havn't really ehard anyone say its the players fault were not in the playoffs, their blame has been mostly to Ron and Burke

I played hockey before and know how much fans really get inside your head which is why I never Boo, but everyone who pays money to get in has a right to Boo if they want, but I don't think they are booing the players, their more upset of the team, management has gone with

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03-21-2012, 12:22 PM
  #18
Leafsman
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Originally Posted by number72 View Post
I agree with you and this needs to start at the top and work its way down. And that means from Burke.

Burke could do great job leading the fan base in that direction by calling out the problem, some of the mistakes and things that didn't work out and his intentions to fix this. Fans can wish and hope all we want for success - but we need serious strong leadership from Burke if this is to get decent momentum and a chance of success.

So I agree fans can be supportive but they need to see the same level of support and sincerity from the GM else they will continue to be jaded and vent their frustration
Burke is not going to have a press conference and conceeds the seasaon while their is a possibility of playoffs!

Everyone *****ing and crying that they want an explanation or accountability better look at the calender! Until the season's over, Burke will not apologize! He has 23 players still out there and he's not making apologies until everything is said and done

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03-21-2012, 12:22 PM
  #19
TMLrBest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ometheus View Post
The Hypocrisy

I've noticed recently that the majority of the fanbase are blatant hypocrites.

I say this because the MLSE fanbase (from here on, referred to as 'we', because I am apart of all of you) call out the athletes-the competitors- for savagely crumbling when the going gets tough...

Yet we, as observers, cannot even bear to watch it without breaking down into a giant pile full of sadistic turmoil. We break apart and start bickering with each other, and lose both our drive and unity as a fanbase. Twist it into something harmful. We fracture like a window into broken glass.

Gather our skirts and take the hits like men

All the commentary--the media--the chants--the I-know-better-improvement rants; they have all only built up our sense of entitlement and suffocated both our team's confidence and drive.

In this atmosphere, we know for certain the media and commentary gets back to the players-- in one form or another. We're doing damage in our collapse as a fanbase. We have a habit to complain and hate for better or worse. Toughen up as fans, and try to cheer for better or worse.

If we want the team, the organization, to straighten their backs and fight with a fire, maybe we should light that fire under them--NO! not with our critic-hate-ridden complaints. With fiery support and the will to push the team forward.

How about when our champ is knocked down onto the mat, we not heckle and mock them for falling. We cheer and support them, encouraging them to stand back up and embolden their hearts.

A million people baying for blood can shrink you. A million people calling out support can motivate you to win.

That's what we want, right?

To win.
Outstanding post.

"We" should also band together to drive this message home to the negative, parasitic media.

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Old
03-21-2012, 12:22 PM
  #20
Ometheus
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Originally Posted by haayward View Post
I'm sorry but I just don't agree with this at all. So while our Leafs are getting savagely beat down by the Bruins, we must cheer and support them on and on? After Seguin scores to put us down 8-0 let's all stand up and chant "Go Leafs Go" with pride and dignity? That team on the ice didn't show a shred of dignity, why should we? It really is telling that the best thing we had to talk about was how Komisarek tried to stand up for the Leafs, then got beat down back into submission. Should I be lining up at the tunnel to high five the players off the ice saying, "Well you went out and tried, nice work!"

I've supported this team my entire life so far and will continue to do so but it's run by an absolute joke of an organization, and honestly good on leafs nation for letting them know. Longest cupless streak, 9 years of no playoffs and our best possible scenario at this point is that we hired a GM who MIGHT be able to finally scrap us into playoffs at the end of his 5 year "accelerated retool". People are saying we don't have the full patience for a full rebuild, well we just basically went through one (four straight top ten picks) and have very little to show for it. What does that tell you? Maybe I'm alone in this one, but I'm tired of cheering for a team that is the joke of the NHL.
We have a lot to show for the last four years of 'retooling'. One look at our Marlies, and the general age of our club will paint a better picture than early 2008.

And yes, I believe that when our club is looking hopeless and defeated, we don't need to step on their heads while they're drowning. I think that we can be men, swallow our pride, and help pull them out of the water.

We don't reward them winning with support; it would seem like an empty gesture then. They reward our support with winning. They owe it to themselves to win, not us.

What you're tired of is losing. And your reaction is only pushing for more of them.

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03-21-2012, 12:26 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
Burke is not going to have a press conference and conceeds the seasaon while their is a possibility of playoffs!

Everyone *****ing and crying that they want an explanation or accountability better look at the calender! Until the season's over, Burke will not apologize! He has 23 players still out there and he's not making apologies until everything is said and done

Then why should fans behave any differently. If fans do not trust Burke or think he is stringing fans along and managing their expectation by talking hot air - then they are just in venting as they see fit. It may not be constructive but neither is Burke's handling of this collapse.

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03-21-2012, 12:27 PM
  #22
Ometheus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
I agree with you and this needs to start at the top and work its way down. And that means from Burke.

Burke could do great job leading the fan base in that direction by calling out the problem, some of the mistakes and things that didn't work out and his intentions to fix this. Fans can wish and hope all we want for success - but we need serious strong leadership from Burke if this is to get decent momentum and a chance of success.

So I agree fans can be supportive but they need to see the same level of support and sincerity from the GM else they will continue to be jaded and vent their frustration
We as a fanbase should be happy our GM is so vocal and 'out there' at all. Most teams get maybe two press conferences a year.

Though I might add that, on basic behavioural studies alone, when a group, say Group A, demands something from another group, Group B, and Group B relents and gives it; Group A then feels entitled and deserving of what they demand, and will demand more, and more, each time feeling more empowered.

If Burke went on TV, submitted to the fans, offered his regrets and condolences, now only would he be feeding the fire, but he would set himself up for more rebukes in the future.

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03-21-2012, 12:29 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon Punch View Post
I agree, so many retired leaf players such as Sundin, Gilmour...etc. Have come out in the media and used their ceremony speeches to urge fans to cheer the team on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Everyone around here should read this..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
That was a great post and very well-written and sums up exactly how fans shoudl be!

However, get ready because people are already reading and perculating! The outrage is growing and soon will come the "The media is not an excuse" the "crazy hockey market is not an excuse" - Burke shoudl fall on his sword!

I commend your effort but do not expect many of the board members to feel the same!
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Man Wolfpack View Post
This was well thought out and written. I applaud your optimism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMLrBest View Post
Outstanding post.

"We" should also band together to drive this message home to the negative, parasitic media.
Thank you, I appreciate it.

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Old
03-21-2012, 12:32 PM
  #24
Ometheus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknite001 View Post
I agree with you; however I can understand why fans are upset. Its been many years since the playoffs, and fans are angry. I don't see them really mad at players, sure all of us from time to time get mad for us signing a guy or playing a guy(Why are we playing Komi????) but mad at management.

When Burke took over fans wanted us to build a core group of guys from drafting, like how the Pens did it, instead Burke decided to get players from trading and getting us FA, as a way to fast track a rebuild. A lot of fans bought into that (not me though if there was a fast way to rebuild everyone would be doing it). Years later we are pretty much in the same place we were before burke took over. It also doesn't help when you say were going for the playoffs and miss it (though can a team really tell their fanbase that they are not going to make the playoffs and tank? ).

I think fans are mad that management hasn't put together a good enough team and are vocing their displeasure, which is why they are calling out Burke and Ron, I havn't really ehard anyone say its the players fault were not in the playoffs, their blame has been mostly to Ron and Burke

I played hockey before and know how much fans really get inside your head which is why I never Boo, but everyone who pays money to get in has a right to Boo if they want, but I don't think they are booing the players, their more upset of the team, management has gone with
I, too, understand why a lot of fans might be upset with management; however, as you said, when we cheer/boo/call/heckle at the games, it's the players that take it. They feel responsible for the reaction, because it's their performance.

There's a lot of insulation between the management and the fans, and the biggest is the players.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
that's the problem with this town. They blame the GM and coach for everything. You know who should apologize?

1. Nikolai Kulemin
2. James Reimer
3. Luke Schenn
4. Tim Connolly
5. Colby Armstrong

All the above performed massively under expectations. Say what you want about Phaneuf, he's performing exactly as I expected.
This is not from this thread, but it's a perfect example of the state of mind of the fanbase. There are many more like this one.

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03-21-2012, 12:33 PM
  #25
Leafsman
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Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Then why should fans behave any differently. If fans do not trust Burke or think he is stringing fans along and managing their expectation by talking hot air - then they are just in venting as they see fit. It may not be constructive but neither is Burke's handling of this collapse.
Are you suggesting that how the Anti-Burke movement is acting is similiar to how Burke is acting.

I'm suggesting that you shoudln't behave any differently and let the season ride out and hear if he does apologize and explain himself before criticizing him for not doing so!

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