Who do you guys think were the best enforcers of all time. I'm talking about enforcers who other players were scared of when they hit the ice, not talking about pests like Barnaby or something. Players who strikes fear in the eyes of the opponent not because of their skill, but because of their physical play and fighting prowess
I think Dave Schultz was the best enforcer of all time. Probert was the best fighter of all time. Dave Brown was most intimidating.
Can't comment on Schultz as he was before my time, but I would say yeah Probert and Brown were both probably the toughest fighters and the most intimidating.
Thing is, if your a hockey player playing at any high level and you actually "fear" an opponent, your cooked, done like dinner. There have been a ton of borderline psych jobs out there over the years, guys youd be "wary" of, but you sure as shootin wouldnt actually "fear" them.
Back in the day, the 70's when Philly was flying, they actually did "fear" quite a few players around the league, overcompensating by hitting first. When they played Montreal however, last thing they wanted to do was "wake up" Robinson & a few others with their usual nonsense.
With the institution of the Instigater Rule & decline in respect for one another amongst the players, general recklessness without consequences or paying the price, loss of "The Code", no one has any fear really. I clearly remember Orr beating the Hell out of Pat Quinn for an earlier border line hit for example, as at one time everyone fought with but a few exceptions.
"Fear" is simply not a word in any hockey players lexicon if he's any good at all.
Thing is, if your a hockey player playing at any high level and you actually "fear" an opponent, your cooked, done like dinner. There have been a ton of borderline psych jobs out there over the years, guys youd be "wary" of, but you sure as shootin wouldnt actually "fear" them.
Back in the day, the 70's when Philly was flying, they actually did "fear" quite a few players around the league, overcompensating by hitting first. When they played Montreal however, last thing they wanted to do was "wake up" Robinson & a few others with their usual nonsense.
With the institution of the Instigater Rule & decline in respect for one another amongst the players, general recklessness without consequences or paying the price, loss of "The Code", no one has any fear really. I clearly remember Orr beating the Hell out of Pat Quinn for an earlier border line hit for example, as at one time everyone fought with but a few exceptions.
"Fear" is simply not a word in any hockey players lexicon if he's any good at all.
I dunno, Dave Schultz said he was afraid to fight Nick Fotiu who is a relative no-name in the context of this discussion. It may have had more to do with his intricate off-ice antics to instill fear in opponents than his actually fighting skills (which were certainly above par), but either way it must have been somewhat successful if Schultz took notice.
Here's the link of what I read about his scare tactics, pretty funny honestly.
The big fighters are on record saying they didn't want to fight him. Instilling fear is the best way to enforce the rules: no dirty stuff, or else. (He did fight Muhammad Ali, which is no surprise I recall, given his reputation.)
Thing is, if your a hockey player playing at any high level and you actually "fear" an opponent, your cooked, done like dinner. There have been a ton of borderline psych jobs out there over the years, guys youd be "wary" of, but you sure as shootin wouldnt actually "fear" them.
"Fear" is simply not a word in any hockey players lexicon if he's any good at all.
I not sure about this, I found that after whistle strach are different when Chara is on the ice or not againts when the Habs play the bruins.
I'm pretty sure that Chara could induce primal fear and the very animal's instective and pure way of the term fear.
I would not be rational, you will perfectly know that Chara will not drop on you a small guy and everything, but the animal in you will fear the obvisouly more more stronger and bigger man.
I not sure about this, I found that after whistle strach are different when Chara is on the ice or not againts when the Habs play the bruins.
I'm pretty sure that Chara could induce primal fear and the very animal's instective and pure way of the term fear.
I would not be rational, you will perfectly know that Chara will not drop on you a small guy and everything, but the animal in you will fear the obvisouly more stronger and bigger man.
That goes back to The Code. Super Heavyweights may only fight other Superheavyweights or Heavyweights and so forth.... unless its a Matt Cooke or Sean Avery.
Smaller players can actually be extremely capable and are often quite fearless fighters, going after bigger opponents without hesitation. The bigger they are, the harder they fall and all that.... but generally, the culture of hockey is such that real wet your pants fear of an opponent is not a factor. You either standup to intimidation and squash it or you lose...
Or as Conn Smythes book is titled, "If you cant beat em in the Alley, you cant beat em on the ice". Of course the game has changed so much over the past 20yrs as to render such sentiments and philosophies moot...
Or as Conn Smythes book is titled, "If you cant beat em in the Alley, you cant beat em on the ice". Of course the game has changed so much over the past 20yrs as to render such sentiments and philosophies moot...
Kind of strange way to thing (maybe it is an english expression that I do not get), Greztky would had have no chance at all in the Alley againts at least 65% of the nhler, at yet he won a lot of cups.
Kind of strange way to thing (maybe it is an english expression that I do not get), Greztky would had have no chance at all in the Alley againts at least 65% of the nhler, at yet he won a lot of cups.
Sure, with Dave Semenko riding shotgun. Of course Gretzky was a talent that transcended and transformed the game. The old systems and old school "Code" being re-written through the 80's, though the changes had begun much earlier with expansion, the 72 Summit Series, Montreals ascendancy under Bowman in taking out the Broad Street Bullies with talent, artistry, speed and smarts with toughness etc...
I think subconciously players, even successful NHLers, can be afraid of another player. No, they won't come out and say it but sometimes their actions on the ice explain it. Look at Chara for example. Remember the hand wringing from Chara's hit on Pacieoretty last year? Everyone was mad at him but not one Hab stood up for him on the ice. Not in the next game either. What does that tell you? Do you think Bob Probert doesn't at least try to settle the score just based on principle? So yeah, there are players who are scared stupid out there and Montreal in 2011 is a classic example.
Messier is another example. No, someone like Potvin or Trottier or Gillies weren't afraid of him to the point where they didn't go into the corners with him but keep in mind there were many players afraid of Messier. He created his own space by intimidating the opposition, throwing elbows, even just glancing at his opponent.
Someone brought up Stevens and Pronger. Correct. Stevens got in your head so much that you would intentionally cross to the other side of the ice to avoid being hit. Now that's impact. Would you want to win a Cup with a guy who is that scared? Probably not, but even with grown men in the NHL that happened not a lot unlike a schoolyard.
Pronger has done things crazy in his career. Falling down in 1998 but still whacking the gentle Igor Larionov in the ear with his stick. Or the subtle "kick" with his skate that was only captured by TSN replays. Other things like the elbows, the over the edge play, the size of him, the unpredictability, the meanness. Rarely anyone tests Pronger. A dirty player? Sure he could be.
Robinson is another guy whose prescence was often just enough to settle a skirmish down. Why wake up the beast?
But none of these guys were brought in just for their fighting/intimidation. If you want to talk about guys who brought sheer fear as players no one wanted to fight I would say Semenko would be near the top along with Probert. Both players are best known as protectors of their star players. Gretzky or Yzerman almost never got a cheap shot against them for a reason. Once Kevin Maguire fought Yzerman in a brawl. Probert didn't like it and circled the pack waiting to take a shot on Maguire. He did and Maguire just lay there like a rock afterwards.
Probert did have other tough guys fight him but how often was that just so they could make a name for themselves? It wasn't by choice.
I always think of Chris Nilan as one of the best in a pure role sense.
As far as crazy goes...Odjick and especially Kordic come to mind.
Wendel Clark should rate some discussion as well. Not only, like Stevens, did Clarky make people keep their heads up but he was also one of the fastest ever at getting his gloves off and firing 3 shots before the other guy can even get his gloves off.
I think subconciously players, even successful NHLers, can be afraid of another player. No, they won't come out and say it but sometimes their actions on the ice explain it.
Some players are definitely afraid of certain players. If not, there is no intimidation element in the game - and about everybody admits there are intimidation aspect in the game. It's a myth that taking a beating in hockey does not hurt. Losing a fight is both painful and humiliating. And in some very rare cases dangerous, ie. when getting KO'd and hitting your unconscious head on the ice. That's one of the reasons why I respect players who fight. They are taking a lot of crap to protect their team's reputation and manhood. But it's part of real hockey and should stay that way.
I recall Tim Hunter one of the few players who admitted in some interview that he was afraid of Dave Brown, as Brown's lefts could destroy the orbital bones. And keep in mind that Hunter was a tough guy himself.
Players with active careers are not going to admit that they are afraid, because it would likely decrease their market value. Especially if they are playing the tough guy role.
Last edited by Slapshooter: 03-22-2012 at 04:54 AM.
Reason: Sandy McCarthy -> Tim Hunter
Wendel Clark should rate some discussion as well. Not only, like Stevens, did Clarky make people keep their heads up but he was also one of the fastest ever at getting his gloves off and firing 3 shots before the other guy can even get his gloves off.
Yeah, Clark used to jump on people. He probably compensated his modest size by starting fights without warning and he did that to non-fighters too. That's one of the reasons why his fighting win/lose ratio is so impressive.
But he was an genuinely intense guy and I prefer unfair fights over staged fights.
I dunno, Dave Schultz said he was afraid to fight Nick Fotiu who is a relative no-name in the context of this discussion. It may have had more to do with his intricate off-ice antics to instill fear in opponents than his actually fighting skills (which were certainly above par), but either way it must have been somewhat successful if Schultz took notice.
Here's the link of what I read about his scare tactics, pretty funny honestly.
Some players are definitely afraid of certain players. If not, there is no intimidation element in the game - and about everybody admits there are intimidation aspect in the game. It's a myth that taking a beating in hockey does not hurt. Losing a fight is both painful and humiliating. And in some very rare cases dangerous, ie. when getting KO'd and hitting your unconscious head on the ice. That's one of the reasons why I respect players who fight. They are taking a lot of crap to protect their team's reputation and manhood. But it's part of real hockey and should stay that way.
I recall Tim Hunter one of the few players who admitted in some interview that he was afraid of Dave Brown, as Brown's lefts could destroy the orbital bones. And keep in mind that Hunter was a tough guy himself.
Players with active careers are not going to admit that they are afraid, because it would likely decrease their market value. Especially if they are playing the tough guy role.
I'm not even sure it's very rare, it's very rare to be very dangerous. But not uncommon for there to be a risk of head trauma.
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Obviously I have not watched him but I try.. Shore?
I'm on a boat with guys mentioning Stevens, Pronger, Chara and Robinson.
Or when we are talking about clear enforcer..I pick Probert.
No one mentioned Lindros yet..but hey man... There's quite known story about World Cup 96 when defensman from Slovak NT didnt want to take a shift against Lindros. That's pretty scary intimidationing considering we're talking about absolut top level hockey.
of guys i watched. have to say Probert was the best. Gino Odjick ( my personal favortie)was another tough guy that would go with anyone and would make sure nobody took liberties with his guys.
but I try.. Shore?
