I dont know how much salary we are gonna have to find Crosbys Neal. I think Letang is gonna get a huge raise in a cple years and Staal is at least going to get a mini raise to like 5 a year. I think we are going to be stuck with trying different aging vets who will sign just to have a chance at a cup like Sullivan.
I dont know how much salary we are gonna have to find Crosbys Neal. I think Letang is gonna get a huge raise in a cple years and Staal is at least going to get a mini raise to like 5 a year. I think we are going to be stuck with trying different aging vets who will sign just to have a chance at a cup like Sullivan.
Martins 5M can be traded when Letangs contract is up, and 3.5M of that can be for Letang. He would be making 7M then. The other 1.5 can be put for whatever.
I've said it many of times, Crosby doesn't necessarily NEED winger. Of course acquiring a winger like Brown would help, but I don't think he needs a winger like Neal like Malkin does.
I'm still holding out hopes that the Pens can get Voracek one day. Tons of skill but still hasn't seemed to put it together yet or at least become a star yet. The thing that I like most about him is that even though he's a skilled guy, he's also very active and has a ton of "puck git" to his game.
The player I want to see most play with Sid is Patrick Elias though. IMO Elias is elite when it comes to give and go all over the ice. His neutral zone passing would and understanding of a staggered offense would really free Sid up around the ice.
I've said it many of times, Crosby doesn't necessarily NEED winger. Of course acquiring a winger like Brown would help, but I don't think he needs a winger like Neal like Malkin does.
This is my exact thoughts. I'd honestly appreciate the luxury of Crosby's ability to produce with 3rd line types and use that money elsewhere. Unless Sid screams for a star winger, then no need to address it. Maybe later on in his career you will want to, but not really now.
Neal is perfect for Geno. It's crazy to say it's almost a blessing in disguise that Sid was out and opened up the opportunity for the Geno-Neal line.
This is my exact thoughts. I'd honestly appreciate the luxury of Crosby's ability to produce with 3rd line types and use that money elsewhere. Unless Sid screams for a star winger, then no need to address it. Maybe later on in his career you will want to, but not really now.
Neal is perfect for Geno. It's crazy to say it's almost a blessing in disguise that Sid was out and opened up the opportunity for the Geno-Neal line.
I think the argument going into next year is the Penguins have four twenty goal scoring wingers already on their team. Dupuis, Kennedy, Kunitz and Neal. Granted, Dupuis and Kennedy aren't perennial twenty goal scorers (Dupuis has only reached that plateau twice and Kennedy has once), they've still come extremely close the past several seasons.
Dupuis - Crosby - Kennedy
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Someone brought it up in another thread that if Kennedy was healthy, he'd average 17 goals a season over the course of his career. Dupuis has averaged 18 goals over the past three seasons. Pretty impressive.
I know it's a very basic way of looking at things, stats don't tell the entire story. Dupuis had 12 goals several weeks ago and has turned it on late in the season. Kennedy is just as inconsistent and is very injury prone.
For those reasons exactly, I certainly would welcome Sullivan back next season for depth purposes, or another top-six winger. The thing is, the Penguins are roughly going to have $5.2M in cap space this offseason. If Niskanen performs in the playoffs like he has during the regular season, I think they'll offer him a 2-year deal worth $2M-$2.2M a season. That only leaves roughly $3M to spend on a top-six winger, a bottom-six winger, a bench player and a back-up goalie. It's cutting it close.
Yeah I'm not seeing how they can even afford a guy like Brown. I'd much sooner propose getting Staal signed long term and perhaps using some extra cap room to get Niskanen signed to an extension.
I think you can add David Jones (UFA) or better yet, Nikolai Kulemin (very bad year for him) to the list
Done. With Kulemin's injury and the Ashton acquisition, he may be more available than ever.
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy
I think Bennett will fit in nicely eventually if he's given a chance in a couple years.
Yep. Bennett would be a guy I'd give up only in a package for the better wingers on the list.
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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane
Setoguchi for me. Two more years at 3M, won't cost as much as a Brown would. And our front offices (Pitt and Minny) know each other so they may already like some of our prospects or moveable roster players.
He's basically a rich man's version of TK at only 1M more.
Plus, he's proven he can score pretty well in the playoffs as recently as last year.
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Originally Posted by River Man
I know this won't be the most popular choice by any stretch, but Mueller would be an intriguing option.
I really like Mueller. Not the fastest and he has the concussion issues, but he has good hands, creativity, and a great shot from the left half-boards.
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Originally Posted by PensFreak
With as cheap as Latendresse would be, I think he'd be fantastic. Low risk, high reward
He'd be worth taking a flier on at the right price, for sure.
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Originally Posted by JRS91
As much fun as this is, does Crosby really need a player like Neal? Look at his wingers throughout his career:
I've said it many of times, Crosby doesn't necessarily NEED winger. Of course acquiring a winger like Brown would help, but I don't think he needs a winger like Neal like Malkin does.
Crosby doesn't need a winger, but let's be honest, neither does Malkin. We're talking about a guy who scored the most playoff points of any forward but Gretzky and Lemieux playing with Talbot and Fedotenko. His issues last year were as much about conditioning and injuries as anything.
A dangerous scoring winger can maximize the talents of both Malkin and Crosby. We should want one for both, if it can be managed under the cap.
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Originally Posted by #66
I'm still holding out hopes that the Pens can get Voracek one day. Tons of skill but still hasn't seemed to put it together yet or at least become a star yet. The thing that I like most about him is that even though he's a skilled guy, he's also very active and has a ton of "puck git" to his game.
Fast as hell too. Too bad he's Philly property now.
this one has Bobby Ryan written all over it. absolutely no brainer. if Shero manages somehow to get it from the Ducks without dealing Staal I will lose my ****.
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Originally Posted by JimmyTwoTimes
This thread is proof that fans are never truly satisfied..always wanting more.
And im definitely included.
Brown would be the perfect fit..just dont see how we could have him in this lineup..salary wise. Even if someone did take martin off of our hands.
the thing is remember the past 5 seasons, we were whining about not being able to sign a first line scoring winger because we had too much money tied up down the middle. we finally got one last season and it's exactly like we imagined having a sniper next to Crosby/Malkin. of course we would love another one.
Yeah I'm not seeing how they can even afford a guy like Brown. I'd much sooner propose getting Staal signed long term and perhaps using some extra cap room to get Niskanen signed to an extension.
He only makes a mil per more than TK. I'm sure if acquiring Brown were an option, Shero would pack TK's bags faster than we could say "ManBearPig".
this one has Bobby Ryan written all over it. absolutely no brainer. if Shero manages somehow to get it from the Ducks without dealing Staal I will lose my ****.
the thing is remember the past 5 seasons, we were whining about not being able to sign a first line scoring winger because we had too much money tied up down the middle. we finally got one last season and it's exactly like we imagined having a sniper next to Crosby/Malkin. of course we would love another one.
Haha, can you imagine Flyers fans, or how Rangers fans would be calling it a conspiricy how we got Ryan without giving up Staal? Oh man...Pens would finish 1st in conference every single year with 130 points all the time. We just...win! Crosby would have a few 140 point seasons, Ryan a few 100-110. It's just a pipedream, then again so would the thought of having Crosby AND Malkin on the same team....
Of course we would have to keep Dupuis with Crosby as he may start getting depressed he has no 3rd liners on his wing.
Crosby doesn't need a winger, but let's be honest, neither does Malkin. We're talking about a guy who scored the most playoff points of any forward but Gretzky and Lemieux playing with Talbot and Fedotenko. His issues last year were as much about conditioning and injuries as anything.
A dangerous scoring winger can maximize the talents of both Malkin and Crosby. We should want one for both, if it can be managed under the cap.
Crosby is going to be Sidney Crosby, regardless of who plays on his wing. Crosby could have a metal chair on his wing and produce at the same pace if he had Chris Kunitz. He's just that good.
I understand what you're saying, but I think Malkin needs more talent around him. You're right, Malkin's conditioning wasn't great and he doesn't necessarily need a winger like Neal either to produce.
Now let's be honest, look how much better Malkin is with Neal. Now obviously, the argument could be the same for Crosby, but how much better could Crosby possibly get? He was on pace for 130+ points last year with 65 goals while Chris Kunitz and Pascal Dupuis flanked him.
Malkin makes the players around him better, if he's playing with a skilled player, it makes him better. I don't want my Malkin fanboiness to come out, but he deserves Neal more than Crosby. Malkin's wingers the past three seasons before this season have been: Ruslan Fedotenko, Ryan Malone, Alexi Ponikarovsky, Petr Sykora, Max Talbot, Arron Asham, Eric Tangradi, Mike Comrie. Malone and Sykora are the only acceptable top six wingers.
Not saying Crosby has had the best choice of wingers either, but he always does get first dibs. Malone, Sykora, Fedotenko were all Crosby's sloppy seconds before going to Malkin. We obviously know how good Malkin was with Malone and Sykora, he was "meh" with Fedotenko.
Malkin put up 77 points in 67 games being flanked by a sub-par Ruslan Fedotenko for most the season, a clueless Ponikarovsky, and an underachieving (lol) Max Talbot. Crosby was able to average over 1.25 points a game with Andy Hilbert and Colby Armstrong.
Would I love to see Bobby Ryan, Chris Stewart, Patric Hornqvist or Dustin Brown play with Crosby? Of course. I just think those respective teams are going to want more than Paul Martin and a high round draft pick. I just don't think it'd be right trading Jordan Staal for one of those players (I know how ludicrous that sounds).
Now let's be honest, look how much better Malkin is with Neal. Now obviously, the argument could be the same for Crosby, but how much better could Crosby possibly get? He was on pace for 130+ points last year with 65 goals while Chris Kunitz and Pascal Dupuis flanked him.
"On pace for" is great, but it's not the same as actually doing it...Sid was actually producing at a 140 point pace in the first half of '06-'07, but trailed off down the stretch. Having skilled complementary players can buoy you through the leaner times.
That's to say nothing of the playoffs, where it's been shown that quality teams can isolate and neutralize Crosby by shadowing him because his unskilled linemates can't do anything with the extra time and space.
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Malkin makes the players around him better, if he's playing with a skilled player, it makes him better. I don't want my Malkin fanboiness to come out, but he deserves Neal more than Crosby. Malkin's wingers the past three seasons before this season have been: Ruslan Fedotenko, Ryan Malone, Alexi Ponikarovsky, Petr Sykora, Max Talbot, Arron Asham, Eric Tangradi, Mike Comrie. Malone and Sykora are the only acceptable top six wingers.
Well yeah, but that's why this thread is about finding a winger for Crosby, not moving Neal to Crosby's line and finding a winger for Malkin.
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Would I love to see Bobby Ryan, Chris Stewart, Patric Hornqvist or Dustin Brown play with Crosby? Of course. I just think those respective teams are going to want more than Paul Martin and a high round draft pick. I just don't think it'd be right trading Jordan Staal for one of those players (I know how ludicrous that sounds).
I disagree. Top 4 PMDs are always at a premium, and Yzerman went on record earlier this year saying that there simply weren't any available short of giving up a superstar for one. Roszival yielded Wolski last season, and he was playing worse than Martin ever has for us.
Martin could absolutely land a struggling young winger with potential on his own, never mind adding a high draft pick.
Never had any notion of dealing Staal in this thread. Even made a list of movable pieces.
"On pace for" is great, but it's not the same as actually doing it...Sid was actually producing at a 140 point pace in the first half of '06-'07, but trailed off down the stretch. Having skilled complementary players can buoy you through the leaner times.
I suppose.
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Well yeah, but that's why this thread is about finding a winger for Crosby, not moving Neal to Crosby's line and finding a winger for Malkin.
I know, I just felt like throwing that in there. . Some 'loid on the fan suggest giving Neal to Crosby. Just thought I'd throw it out there just in case someone brought it up.
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper
I disagree. Top 4 PMDs are always at a premium, and Yzerman went on record earlier this year saying that there simply weren't any available short of giving up a superstar for one. Roszival yielded Wolski last season, and he was playing worse than Martin ever has for us.
Martin could absolutely land a struggling young winger with potential on his own, never mind adding a high draft pick.
Well to be fair, Wolski had 16 points before he was dealt to New York. I understand that defenseman are in demand right now, but I'm sure teams like LA, Anaheim, Nashville, St.Louis could get a younger defenseman.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not selling Martin short here, I don't think he's been nearly as bad as people make him out to be. However, he's 30 years old, going on 31. He has three years left on his contract, ever since he had surgery on his arm, his shot has suffered greatly. He's not a natural QB on the PP. I just don't think his value is that high, or as high as some other defenseman those respective teams could get.
Like I said, I know there aren't a lot of defenseman out there, but I'm sure they could find a few better and/or younger with more upside than Paul. Not a knock on him, just trying to look at it differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Never had any notion of dealing Staal in this thread. Even made a list of movable pieces.
I'm not sure if Martin himself, even coupled with a 1st round pick could land Bobby Ryan, Anthony Stewart, or Patric Hornqvist. As I said above, I think those teams could find a better trade elsewhere.
As for Brown, it could happen, but man a 1st round pick and Paul Martin for Dustin Brown seems like overkill. Believe me, I'd love to see Brown here, but I think people are overrating the guy. He's not as much of an impact player as people think.
Infact, I'd say he's more of a complimentary winger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Great teams always strive to get better.
Not arguing with that, but I'd hate to dismantle an already great team. If that's what it'd take.
Well to be fair, Wolski had 16 points before he was dealt to New York. I understand that defenseman are in demand right now, but I'm sure teams like LA, Anaheim, Nashville, St.Louis could get a younger defenseman.
Wolski had 16 points in 36 games, which is a better pace than Stewart is producing at right now. He also had 65 points in 80 games the year before.
Further, teams like LA, St.Louis, and Anaheim do not need young defensemen. They have the likes of Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Doughty, Voynov, Fowler, etc. They could use established top 4 minute munchers to stabilize their blueline.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not selling Martin short here, I don't think he's been nearly as bad as people make him out to be. However, he's 30 years old, going on 31. He has three years left on his contract, ever since he had surgery on his arm, his shot has suffered greatly. He's not a natural QB on the PP. I just don't think his value is that high, or as high as some other defenseman those respective teams could get.
Roszival.
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Like I said, I know there aren't a lot of defenseman out there, but I'm sure they could find a few better and/or younger with more upside than Paul. Not a knock on him, just trying to look at it differently.
Upside is not the issue.
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As for Brown, it could happen, but man a 1st round pick and Paul Martin for Dustin Brown seems like overkill. Believe me, I'd love to see Brown here, but I think people are overrating the guy. He's not as much of an impact player as people think.
Infact, I'd say he's more of a complimentary winger.
Brown's contract is a big part of his value. 3 mil per 'til 2014.
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Not arguing with that, but I'd hate to dismantle an already great team. If that's what it'd take.
I made the list of expendable pieces. I'm not sure what on there constitutes dismantling the team...
Last edited by Rowdy Roddy Peeper: 03-22-2012 at 12:01 AM.
Unless Martin is involved in a trade, Shero will be prohibited from moving for almost all of the guys being debated until he knows what it will take to sign Sid and Staal to new deals. So.... hopefully they write some acceptable numbers on a napkin prior to July 1st.
. Some 'loid on the fan suggest giving Neal to Crosby. Just thought I'd throw it out there just in case someone brought it up.
