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Hockey Fights Discuss and rate hockey fights and fighters of today and from the past. Videos welcome!

How to get Fighting Out - Problem Solved.

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Old
03-21-2012, 11:44 PM
  #26
Bone for your jar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Alfredsson View Post
Whats wrong with staged fights?
I was going to say that too....

Seriously though. There's this common refrain about "talentless goons" in the league... guys called up just for a fight. But these guys aren't talent-less.... we just don't happen to approve of the talents they do have. We celebrate skating and puckhandling skills but not fighting skills. We celebrate play-making skills but not acting skills, or the ability to enact code-bound rituals, or a certain flair for performance that revs up the crowd. It's ok to ooh and ahh when somebody dekes out a defenseman, but not when someone stays standing after a stunning uppercut to the chin. Why not? Those are talents too. And in fact, there ARE plenty of people who appreciate them.

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03-21-2012, 11:45 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by HockeyHooligans View Post
FIGHTS happen maybe every other game ON AVERAGE. Why is there even a discussion about it?
Because 3 enforcers offed themselves and people have been trying to exploit their deaths to get fighting banned.

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03-21-2012, 11:45 PM
  #28
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Good God...if you don't like fighting don't watch hockey.

When will people understand it's a part of the game?

C'mon soccer moms.

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03-21-2012, 11:46 PM
  #29
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The problem I have, ultimately, with fighting, is the risk of brain injury. But then, even without fights, and unless major changes are made to the game, hockey carries the risk of brain injury.

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03-21-2012, 11:48 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by RevUpThoseFlyers View Post
Because 3 enforcers offed themselves and people have been trying to exploit their deaths to get fighting banned.
That's pathetic.

Not the idea of exploiting deaths, but that you honestly seem to believe that to be the case and are accusing everyone of a differing viewpoint of doing.

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03-21-2012, 11:48 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
they result in players like Derek Boogaard getting contracts that should go to athletes who actually have the ability to play NHL hockey. The quality of the game drops. Keeping staged fights in the league is no different than adding another franchise, it waters down the product with inferior talent
Who's fault is it to sign players like Boogard? I don't see any pure fighters in the NHL demanding contracts.

It's the GM's that sign the players. And who is to say that they can't play hockey? and that every staged fight involves someone who cant play hockey and only skillset is fighting?

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03-21-2012, 11:50 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
That's pathetic.

Not the idea of exploiting deaths, but that you honestly seem to believe that to be the case and are accusing everyone of a differing viewpoint of doing.
I never said "everyone". Remember those former enforcers that just decided to speak out right after their deaths? Forget their names but Don Cherry went off on them too.

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03-21-2012, 11:50 PM
  #33
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Here is a crazy idea, How about we leave the game as it is and get the standard of refereeing improved

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03-21-2012, 11:52 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevUpThoseFlyers View Post
I never said "everyone". Remember those former enforcers that just decided to speak out right after their deaths? Forget their names but Don Cherry went off on them too.
You mean the guys who have played the game, seen and experienced the effects first-hand, and would know a thing or two about what life is like during and after hockey for someone whose entire role is to engage in fights?

Here's a question. What kind of player would Bob Probert have been if he never had to fight? He was actually a fairly talented player who got pigeonholed into "enforcer" despite some offensive prowess.

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03-21-2012, 11:53 PM
  #35
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I have serious doubts about a hockey fans credibility if they are opposed to fighting. You must never have played the game, or are an emotionless robot.

Being concerned with players health is another matter. But then if you are also a football fan then you must want hitting out of football if you're THAT concerned.

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03-21-2012, 11:55 PM
  #36
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Wow, so much *****-ness in the fanbase when it comes to hockey.

Next we'll be playing the equivalent of tag football. Grow up people, it's been in the game for almost 100 years. There's been TONS of scrappers, TONS over the years with no problems. But nowadays the media can grab just about anything and exploit it because the internet rules all.

Just stop already and join some other peace movement. Please.

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Old
03-21-2012, 11:55 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Monglobster View Post
I have serious doubts about a hockey fans credibility if they are opposed to fighting. You must never have played the game, or are an emotionless robot.

Being concerned with players health is another matter. But then if you are also a football fan then you must want hitting out of football if you're THAT concerned.

Good way of putting it. Cheers.

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03-21-2012, 11:56 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
You mean the guys who have played the game, seen and experienced the effects first-hand, and would know a thing or two about what life is like during and after hockey for someone whose entire role is to engage in fights?

Here's a question. What kind of player would Bob Probert have been if he never had to fight? He was actually a fairly talented player who got pigeonholed into "enforcer" despite some offensive prowess.
This is kind of what I'm talking about. Enforcers aren't slaves that have no choice but to risk their health to fight. They could just stop if they wanted to or even just tell GMs and coaches that they are having serious problems.

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Old
03-22-2012, 12:00 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevUpThoseFlyers View Post
This is kind of what I'm talking about. Enforcers aren't slaves that have no choice but to risk their health to fight. They could just stop if they wanted to or even just tell GMs and coaches that they are having serious problems.
Could Probert have had the career he had if he couldn't scrap? I know he had hands, but his hands in the open ice ring also made him who he was and what he became in hockey.

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03-22-2012, 12:04 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Monglobster View Post
Being concerned with players health is another matter. But then if you are also a football fan then you must want hitting out of football if you're THAT concerned.
Let me check the rulebook....weird. It actually says here that in order to end a running play, the guy with the ball must be brought to the ground or else forced out of bounds. And since no one with the exception of Eric Dickerson would even voluntarily go out of bounds, that means that hitting is actually an integral and necessary part of football.

That's a very interesting thing. I guess in all my years in football, I thought I was simply encouraging physical play because I can. Now I'm finding out it's actually important? How about that!

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03-22-2012, 12:08 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Let me check the rulebook....weird. It actually says here that in order to end a running play, the guy with the ball must be brought to the ground or else forced out of bounds. And since no one with the exception of Eric Dickerson would even voluntarily go out of bounds, that means that hitting is actually an integral and necessary part of football.

That's a very interesting thing. I guess in all my years in football, I thought I was simply encouraging physical play because I can. Now I'm finding out it's actually important? How about that!
So everything is fine since its in the rulebook? Gotcha.

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Old
03-22-2012, 12:10 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevUpThoseFlyers View Post
This is kind of what I'm talking about. Enforcers aren't slaves that have no choice but to risk their health to fight. They could just stop if they wanted to or even just tell GMs and coaches that they are having serious problems.
Given the choice between retiring at 17 or learning to fight and continuing to play, what's a kid going to do?

Given the choice between retiring at 20 or accepting a permanent role as "enforcer", what's a minor league player going to do?

Given the choice between retiring at 26 or making millions of dollars to ignore the constant signs of brain trauma, what's an NHLer going to do?

I can look down at my hands right now and see how mangled they are from football. Six of my fingers don't fully straighten; I've broken, dislocated, or sprained every one of them multiple times; I have arthritis developing in my left ring finger (requiring me to wear an extremely light wedding ring); and if I hold my index fingers and middle fingers together to each other, they only touch at the very tip. I don't regret a minute of having played the game, and I'd do it again if I had the chance to do so.

What's changed in the last five years is that there's a lot more scientific backing that bears out that not only is a brain injury not like an orthopedic injury, but that the long-term effects are actually terrifying. I suffered multiple concussions (mostly minor), never returned until I was fully asymptomatic, and yet I have associated problems today. That's scary stuff right there.

We're going to reach a point where the banning of fighting is forced on the league. Either the lawyers are going to say that it's indefensible in court, or the insurers are going to refuse to underwrite policies until it's gone.

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Old
03-22-2012, 12:15 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by 11Alfredsson View Post
So everything is fine since its in the rulebook? Gotcha.
The NFL has traditionally been very aware of the balance between physical play and garbage, and when incidents have happened they've usually been very active in removing the chance for it to happen again. 15-yard penalties are extremely important tactical elements in football, similar to a major power play in hockey. Players will do a lot of things in hockey, but threaten a non-coincidental major and they'll back off.

When the NFL saw their passers being chased around long after the ball was thrown, they implemented penalties for roughing the passer. I think that was in 1938. When receivers were suffering head injuries, they outlawed clotheslining and hits with the forearm; that was in the 1950s. When linebackers were suffering knee injuries, they outlawed the crackback block (1962, I think). When offensive linemen were suffering injuries, the head slap was outlawed. When defensive backs were suffering injuries, spearing and hitting with the helmet was outlawed.

This isn't done to make the game less physical, it's to force players to play the game the right way. It disgusts me, as a former player and as a coach, to have seen head-butting masquerading as "great hits" in the last 15 years in the NFL. I wanted it outlawed not simply because it caused needless injuries on a garbage hit, but because it bastardized the idea of what physical football actually is supposed to look like.

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Old
03-22-2012, 12:26 AM
  #44
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Fights may or may not be necessary, I'm not about to get into that argument, but IMO, annoying, stupid fights that make the game look like a farce out-number good, meaningful necessary fights by about a 100 to 1.

Unless someone were to go out of their way to convince me of a compelling reason to have them, if they were to take it out of the game, I'd probably be in favor.

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03-22-2012, 12:29 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
True fans like hockey. And no, fighting is not inherently part of hockey any more than TV timeouts are
...except it is inherently a part of hockey.

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03-22-2012, 12:35 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
We're going to reach a point where the banning of fighting is forced on the league. Either the lawyers are going to say that it's indefensible in court, or the insurers are going to refuse to underwrite policies until it's gone.
The # of incidents in which a player is hurt during a legitimate, non-fighting play is astronomically higher than those hurt in the course of a fight. If insurers had a problem with injuries they'd have removed the ice, skate blades, forced cages and banned hitting altogether. From an actuarial standpoint, it's a total non issue.

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Old
03-22-2012, 12:36 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by alcanalz View Post
...except it is inherently a part of hockey.
Except in the playoffs, international game, and the All-Star game.

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03-22-2012, 12:41 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Monglobster View Post
I have serious doubts about a hockey fans credibility if they are opposed to fighting. You must never have played the game, or are an emotionless robot.
I'd say it's the opposite. I play the game frequently. My only opportunities to do it is in leagues or ice rinks that explicitly do not allow fighting. As such, I have the reference from playing hockey to know that fighting is not integral to the sport

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcanalz View Post
...except it is inherently a part of hockey.
again, is rec league or drop-in not hockey because there are no fights? Is NCAA not hockey because there are no fights? Are the Olympics not hockey because there are no fights? There are thousands of hockey games played each day. How many allow fighting? Maybe 1%, if that? It's no more inherently a part of hockey than cheerleaders are inherently a part of football

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03-22-2012, 12:43 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
The # of incidents in which a player is hurt during a legitimate, non-fighting play is astronomically higher than those hurt in the course of a fight. If insurers had a problem with injuries they'd have removed the ice, skate blades, forced cages and banned hitting altogether. From an actuarial standpoint, it's a total non issue.
Well, you got the bolded part right.

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Old
03-22-2012, 12:43 AM
  #50
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To the OP

Suspending players won't even do anything. Most fights, especially staged fights, are caused by players who are in the enforcer's role, who don't play every night anyways.

Slap them with a 1 game suspension and it won't matter because they'd have been sitting that day anyways.

The only people who would be hurt by this rule would be Top 6 players who decided to take matters into their own hands, instead of letting the enforcer handle it... it's an instance I rather encourage, fed by pure emotion, and don't want to eliminate. You ould argue that since it's fed through emotion you couldn't avoid it anyways, no matter what the consequence.

If you want to eliminate fighting, you have to make it disadvantageous for owners to employ fighters. Something crazy like a $100,000 fine for every fight to the owners.

And then, when you go to sign your next CBA, everyone will throw a ***** fit over that rule. Then we could lock out.

Slippery slope, maybe... but I just don't think you can remove it from the game without making everyone angry about it.

Plus... that argument that it's part of the game isn't invalid anyways.

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