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Hockey Fights Discuss and rate hockey fights and fighters of today and from the past. Videos welcome!

How to get Fighting Out - Problem Solved.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:14 AM
  #151
Mayor Bee
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
I never made any such assumption, although I think that this one has validity. My support for fighting, was, is and always will be at the discretion of the players. If they decided to stop fighting, then I am fine with that.

And to assume that the rules you proposed would " ensure" that these things would not happen, takes a level of self-aggandizement that I cannot fathom.

For more than one hundred years, literally thousands of GM/owners and players have made changes to the game as setwards of the games best interest. We should abandon all of this because some internet jabrone is really convinced that his system would work, if they only gave it a chance.

Sorry but in a battle of ideas, I chose the players.
Ah yes, the old assumption that only those inside the bubble can possess true knowledge that escapes even the brightest individuals who happen to reside outside of it. Hasn't the new Domino's commercial taught you anything?

Tell you what. I'm going to create a poll on the issue of fighting and see if I can actually get an accurate idea of how players at various levels truly feel about fighting. When that's concluded, everything (including the wording of the questions) will be made public knowledge except the names of the players who responded.

Deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jani8 View Post
Here, you said it not once, not twice but three times and I'll even "caps-lock" it for you. GIVEN THE CHOICE!

And the answer to all of those questions is: All options are up to them. Play the game that is required from you or drop out and pursue another career of your choice. Hey, here's that word again. Choice. CHOICE. CHOICE!!!!
Sure, it's a choice. It's a choice whose answer is very heavily swayed by either the promise of huge amounts of money, or the chance of huge amounts of money. Keep in mind that the odds of making the NHL are better than winning the lottery, even if the lifetime payout isn't as great. Most people would voluntarily submit to getting kicked in the groin for a few hundred bucks, with absolutely no thought to the consequences of what such an action entails.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:27 AM
  #152
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Fighting to me is a sideshow certainly for entertainment value and usually between two players who do nothing else on the ice and are out there for that sole reason . Enforcers do not protect star players and the new NHL is taking their game away anyways.

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03-22-2012, 11:37 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
You think that is going to stop big hits in the NFL? All that move did was rid the NFL of the bounty program. You cannot compare the NHL with the NFL. Its just too different.
Cheap shots and dirty play and please watch the nfl it's becoming soft

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03-22-2012, 11:39 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Ah yes, the old assumption that only those inside the bubble can possess true knowledge that escapes even the brightest individuals who happen to reside outside of it. Hasn't the new Domino's commercial taught you anything?

Tell you what. I'm going to create a poll on the issue of fighting and see if I can actually get an accurate idea of how players at various levels truly feel about fighting. When that's concluded, everything (including the wording of the questions) will be made public knowledge except the names of the players who responded.

Deal?



Sure, it's a choice. It's a choice whose answer is very heavily swayed by either the promise of huge amounts of money, or the chance of huge amounts of money. Keep in mind that the odds of making the NHL are better than winning the lottery, even if the lifetime payout isn't as great. Most people would voluntarily submit to getting kicked in the groin for a few hundred bucks, with absolutely no thought to the consequences of what such an action entails.

There already is a poll on HFboards, last I check 47 for a ban 237 against. The players, its greater than 95 %, at any game the fans go crazy when a fight start ( perhaps they are yelling shame ?) and every bar that I have been in when a fight starts, people cheer. And his way you can get your antifigthing bretheren to stuff the boxes. Thanks but dont bother on my account.

You can join the philosopher king and his new found buddy Ralph Nader and cast aspersions on the intents and intellects of the hockey fans all you like. Find some soccer mom and you can all play bridge while you sip you chardonnay.

And if its not clear YET, I wouldn't care if 99% of the fans were against fighting, this is not something that is up for fan approval. If the players want it, that's all I need seeing as they are the ones to face the consequences.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:41 AM
  #155
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Fighting makes the game of hockey. If there was no scrums or fights it would be soo much more boring. No need to take it out.

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03-22-2012, 11:41 AM
  #156
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[QUOTE=sm0ka47;46513903]The anti fighting crowd argues about no skilled goons but don't acknowledge the fact that the unskilled goon is a dying breed in the NHL. The pure enforcer is slowly being taken out of the game.


Hooray for Bettman, Shanny, and Co.

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03-22-2012, 11:50 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
There already is a poll on HFboards, last I check 47 for a ban 237 against. The players, its greater than 95 %, at any game the fans go crazy when a fight start ( perhaps they are yelling shame ?) and every bar that I have been in when a fight starts, people cheer. And his way you can get your antifigthing bretheren to stuff the boxes. Thanks but dont bother on my account.
There's also one that asks whether or not players should have to fight after a big hit, with 7 for and 28 against.

Admit it. You're afraid that a well-constructed poll over various aspects of fighting, when asked of actual professional hockey players, will not bear out the 95% support that was part of a single poll with no idea of how the question was worded.

Quote:
You can join the philosopher king and his new found buddy Ralph Nader and cast aspersions on the intents and intellects of the hockey fans all you like. Find some soccer mom and you can all play bridge while you sip you chardonnay.
I hate wine, I'm not 75 so I don't know how to play bridge, and my wife would kill me if I found a soccer mom on the side.

Quote:
And if its not clear YET, I wouldn't care if 99% of the fans were against fighting, this is not something that is up for fan approval. If the players want it, that's all I need seeing as they are the ones to face the consequences.
That's a very unique way of looking at things. The NHL has been accused of going against the wishes of fans (who, after all, buy tickets and merchandise and watch the games) many times, and you'd actually completely dismiss out of hand something that has either 99% approval or disapproval?

Wow.

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03-22-2012, 11:53 AM
  #158
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Thank god we don't want or need this garbage.

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03-22-2012, 11:58 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post

That's a very unique way of looking at things. The NHL has been accused of going against the wishes of fans (who, after all, buy tickets and merchandise and watch the games) many times, and you'd actually completely dismiss out of hand something that has either 99% approval or disapproval?

Wow.
So in your world, the NHL can force the players to accept whatever changes they deem fit ? Ever hear of the CBA ?

Getting rid of fighting will need to consent of the PA who are universally against it. If you think that the owners are going to lock out the players over fighting, pull up a chair it might be a while.

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Old
03-22-2012, 12:15 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Landeskog View Post
Don't even know where to start with this? Fighting has always been in hockey? Really? Really? No, it has not my friend. Fighting come into hockey around in the 20s' but the fights were few a far between. We're talking very few fights here, maybe 1 in every 10-15 games, plus they not play 82 games back then, they played any where from 29 to 44 games. 30s' were pretty much the same thing and as for the era of the 1942 to 1966/67 season, there was fighting but nothing like today. Fighting in hockey really didn't come full boar until the 70s' but they also stick swinging and other things going on. In the 80s and 90s though we started to get players who could do one thing and that is fight. So the answer is kill off the goon and fighting will go down. It's not about killing off fighting it's about getting goons and staged fights out of hockey.

And the fact you don't want minor leaguers fighting is funny beyond belief. The AHL use to be goon city, bench clearly brawls, fights every minute and so on. The ECHL and all those minor league us to goon city also. The NHL was tame with there stickings swinging and fights.


No, I became a fan of hockey and the NHL for it's fighting but for the skill of the game. I did not sign up for goons with no skill who have more minutes in the box than on the ice.

I signed up for the Sergei Fedorovs, Brett Hulls, Wayne Gretzkys, Patrick Roys and Jaromir Jagrs. That my friend is what I signed up for.

And to say fighting is part of the game and it must be in the game, please.... World Championships, Olympics(best hockey ever),World JR Championships. People would say those are that some of the best hockey you will see played and there is no fighting.

What about the NHL playoffs? fighting in the playoffs is limited and there is not much of it and when there is fighting it normally kills the flow of game. Everyone likes playoff hockey and the fights are limited and normally as the number of team do down and pressure is turned up, the fights drop.
Excellent post. Said everything I would say and more. Of course, you'll get the "obviously you don't play hockey" non sequitur rather than a rational response

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03-22-2012, 12:22 PM
  #161
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I love when people use the best on best tournaments as a reason to ban fighting

Newsflash it is a BEST ON BEST tournament. There is no fighting because there is no need for it because you don't have dirty players playing.

Btw in the past there was less fighting but they used to break your damm leg if you were an idiot on the ice. They would break your leg if you raised the puck when you shot.

It is a violent game and the more they limited fighting the worse injuries have gotten

When are people going to put 2 and 2 together and realize that the reasons Crosby or Sedin or Hall or any star player are out is because no one respects anyone anymore. You can get away with it because there is no responsibility. Rene Bourque got 5 games for elbowing Nik Backstrom and Backstrom hasn't played since. That isn't justice that is a joke

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03-22-2012, 12:24 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
True fans like hockey. And no, fighting is not inherently part of hockey any more than TV timeouts are
yes it is. fighting is one of the oldest traditions in hockey. it was around before helmets were required. check yourself at the door

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03-22-2012, 12:25 PM
  #163
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Solution looking for a problem.

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Old
03-22-2012, 12:28 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
I love when people use the best on best tournaments as a reason to ban fighting

Newsflash it is a BEST ON BEST tournament. There is no fighting because there is no need for it because you don't have dirty players playing.

Btw in the past there was less fighting but they used to break your damm leg if you were an idiot on the ice. They would break your leg if you raised the puck when you shot.

It is a violent game and the more they limited fighting the worse injuries have gotten

When are people going to put 2 and 2 together and realize that the reasons Crosby or Sedin or Hall or any star player are out is because no one respects anyone anymore. You can get away with it because there is no responsibility. Rene Bourque got 5 games for elbowing Nik Backstrom and Backstrom hasn't played since. That isn't justice that is a joke
TC could learn a lot from this post.

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03-22-2012, 12:31 PM
  #165
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Problem with the solution: I don't want fighting out of the game.

Even if I can't prove it provides any sort of benefit to the sport, fighting entertains me, and that's what I care about.

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03-22-2012, 01:13 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
Excellent post. Said everything I would say and more. Of course, you'll get the "obviously you don't play hockey" non sequitur rather than a rational response
The notion that hockey in the twenties was pure is nonsense. Sprague Cleghorn slashed and speared more men unconcious than anyone in the modern era.

Stick fights were common back then, is this really the hockey you long to return to ? heres a description of the 1927 stanley cup finals

"In the final game, the series was spoiled by the disgraceful brawl near the end of the game when tempers frayed. Hooley Smith viciously cross-checked Harry Oliver in the face, knocking him unconscious. Eddie Shore came to Oliver's rescue and pounded Smith to a bloody pulp. Then Hitchman and Buck Boucher got into a classic hammer and tongs fist fight, and then it was Coutu's turn to get into the act. He punched referee Jerry LaFlamme, knocking him down, and tackled Billy Bell, the other referee, as he was coming to
LaFlamme's aid. For this, Coutu was expelled from the National Hockey League for life by NHL president Frank Calder, and fined $100, a big sum in those days. Smith was suspended for one month the following season and fined $100. Hitchman and Boucher were fined $50 and given match penalties. Jimmy Herberts, a scorer on the Bruins, was fined $50 for intimidating the two referees."


Ahhh unicorns and rainbows !

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03-22-2012, 01:30 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
Excellent post. Said everything I would say and more. Of course, you'll get the "obviously you don't play hockey" non sequitur rather than a rational response
Its a good thing that eddie shore didn't play in the 20's and thirties

He also holds the unbreakable record for fighting majors in one game. Since players are now tossed after too many, Shore was once able to accumulate five fighting majors in which he fought Montreal Maroons (yeah, there were two Montreal teams at the time) players, Buck Boucher, Dave Trottier, Seibert. By the end of the game, Shore had a broken nose, lost four teeth, two black eyes, and a concussion. Trottier, Seibert, and Shore ended up in the hospital.

Ahh puppies and butterflies

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03-22-2012, 01:34 PM
  #168
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I played hockey a lot of my life and I really don't care about fighting. I want goons gone so only real heated battle fights occur. Although...if they removed fighting completely I wouldn't care at all.

Oh yah, and those saying "go watch soccer if you don't want fights"...can't I say "go watch boxing, UFC, etc... if you want them"?

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03-22-2012, 01:37 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
Its a good thing that eddie shore didn't play in the 20's and thirties

He also holds the unbreakable record for fighting majors in one game. Since players are now tossed after too many, Shore was once able to accumulate five fighting majors in which he fought Montreal Maroons (yeah, there were two Montreal teams at the time) players, Buck Boucher, Dave Trottier, Seibert. By the end of the game, Shore had a broken nose, lost four teeth, two black eyes, and a concussion. Trottier, Seibert, and Shore ended up in the hospital.

Ahh puppies and butterflies
This a good thing because?

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03-22-2012, 02:06 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
This a good thing because?
Because someone who disliked fights tried to convince me that hockey in the 20's and 30's was a gentler and tamer sport and that the real fighting only really started in the 50s and 60's, and as such hockey fights are clearly an artificial construct.

He claimed that in the twenties and thirties there was only one fight every 15 games or so. I guess statistics for " knocked a guy out with my stick" werent as readily available to him. shame.

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03-22-2012, 02:16 PM
  #171
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The problem is that some "fans" think fighting in the sport is a problem.

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03-22-2012, 02:23 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Brooklanders View Post
We are talking about boxing right?
Truth is these goons are punks who would get their ***** whipped if they had to fight on the street.
i would like you to say that to Mike Rupp's face. a lot of them know how to box and a lot of them, in the off season, train in boxing.

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03-22-2012, 02:40 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
i would like you to say that to Mike Rupp's face. a lot of them know how to box and a lot of them, in the off season, train in boxing.
Even Lapierre does.

Best way to end this discussion is to have all the people who want fighting out to go watch Basketball.

Problem solved.

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03-22-2012, 02:51 PM
  #174
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Who are the people who think fighting is a problem?

The players want fighting in the game.

The majority of fans (at least the ones who attend games) want in the game.

I don't see why the league needs to cater to anyone else? It's like the league is losing sponsorships because companies that sponsor the league are anti-fighting or anything.

Also, people are making fighting out to be like it's some epidemic when in fact it's gone down this year and the year before.

If you don't like fighting in hockey, perhaps watch another league.

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03-22-2012, 02:53 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
The problem is that some "fans" think fighting in the sport is a problem.
Calling people 'fans' for not wanting fighting is just as stupid as people saying the same of 'fans' who enjoy fighting.

I personally don't think fighting is a problem, I just don't care for it. Granted, when a fight comes on I don't turn away and I may even enjoy it from time to time but in most cases goons annoy me. Maybe it's just me but I see the difference between a 'tough hockey player' and a 'tough guy in a hockey uniform'.

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