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Why I hate enforcers

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Old
03-22-2012, 02:52 PM
  #1
acor
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Why I hate enforcers

I've never had anything against fighting, however I always hated enforcers. I think existance of enforcers in fact embaraces soft players. Existance of enforcers= existance of "protected" players.
Have you ever seen something equally embarrassing to this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3Sq1Kwz-zc

Those who love enforcers calls themself old school hockey fans, while they fail to realize that in real old school hockey there were no "enforcers"- and no sacred cows either. Players were supposed to fight their own battles. Richard or Howe were their own enforcers. Gretzky never was forced to fight, or play physical, BC he had his "enforcers".

Another reason against enforcers is my love to gutsy, scrappy guys called "agitators". I know you like to call them rats, or even "cowards" (while, at the same time embaracing Gretzky or Sedin), but I think many of you love to see players like Ott, or Neil inmiditating softer players of opposition

Its no secret, that pesty play of Brad Marchand against Sedins was big reason why Bruins were so dominant against Canucks. Would he be as effective if he'd have to answer some roided goon ? In current era- yes, because he'd turtle, emasculine Sedin and draw instigator, but in 80s ?

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03-22-2012, 03:00 PM
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JustGivingEr
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Since when is Matt Bradley an enforcer?

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03-22-2012, 03:02 PM
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acor
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Originally Posted by JustGivingEr View Post
Since when is Matt Bradley an enforcer?
It was just example of typical (over)protection enforcer act. Never said Bradley was enforcer.

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03-22-2012, 03:49 PM
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Morris Wanchuk
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I hate enforcers because they turned fighting in hockey into a side show. So much that when a player fights out of anger, and hits someone on the ground, everyone is up in arms about breaking the code and other BS.

If enforcers played to actually enforce, not get their fight in the 1st period, you would see many of them getting suspended for having multiple instigator penalties. (yes you do get suspended for that) but it never happens, because they don't want to make the other enforcer angry and risking getting hurt in a meaningful fight.

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03-22-2012, 03:56 PM
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I dislike enforcers because players never fight their own battles. Most teams are filled with ******* who can't take a solid hit and skate with their head down so their tough guy goes and challenge people. If you get rocked from a clean hit or whatever, defend yourself.

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03-22-2012, 04:21 PM
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Psycho Papa Joe
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If you aren't skilled/talented enough to play 10mins without embarrassing yourself you really have no place in the league. I like enforcers but only when they can actually play the game.

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03-22-2012, 04:22 PM
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Mathias
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I love the role of the enforcer. In an ideal world, all teams 4th lines would be made up by three players who sole purpose is to fight.

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03-22-2012, 04:23 PM
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acor
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Originally Posted by CCMV View Post
I love the role of the enforcer. In an ideal world, all teams 4th lines would be made up by three players who sole purpose is to fight.
And first lines would be made up by three "skilled" players who are too soft to fight...

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03-22-2012, 04:34 PM
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Mathias
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Originally Posted by acor View Post
And first lines would be made up by three "skilled" players who are too soft to fight...
They can fight too if they want. The more the merrier.

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03-22-2012, 04:35 PM
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acor
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Originally Posted by CCMV View Post
They can fight too if they want. The more the merrier.
I just point "obvious" fact that more enforcers=more sacred cows, protected players, who are too soft to fight their own battles.
And less liberties for agitators, wich is my favourite role on ice.

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03-22-2012, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by acor View Post
I just point "obvious" fact that more enforcers=more sacred cows, protected players, who are too soft to fight their own battles.
And less liberties for agitators, wich is my favourite role on ice.
I rather see the top names on my team, not sit in the box serving 5 for fighting. And I rather see enforcers do their job against agitators who hit said top names.

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03-23-2012, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by acor View Post
I just point "obvious" fact that more enforcers=more sacred cows, protected players, who are too soft to fight their own battles.
And less liberties for agitators, wich is my favourite role on ice.
Is that because of the enforcers, or because of the huge rise in salaries?

Brad Richards taking a 5min major costs 12,000 dollars. If you use his ATOI of 20:18 and it's roughly 36,000.

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03-23-2012, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCMV View Post
I love the role of the enforcer. In an ideal world, all teams 4th lines would be made up by three players who sole purpose is to fight.
Then why not just watch UFC,Boxing etc etc. Hockey belongs as a part of hockey but only in the heat of the moment, not some staged side-show.

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03-23-2012, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCMV View Post
I rather see the top names on my team, not sit in the box serving 5 for fighting. And I rather see enforcers do their job against agitators who hit said top names.
Someone is on the same boat

In an ideal world my fourth line would look:

BigMac - Orr - McGrattan/Parros, third line would contain a guy like Prust

wanna go rough on Z and Datsukian? Okay send out the fourth line!

@OP go watch soccer, baseball, basketball, dancing or swimming if you can't stand enforcers.

Teams are losing tons of money if their starplayers are hurt in a fight also its not their job to fight, thats what enforcers are for if you don't like it there are tons of other sports. The anti fighting crowd is getting more annoying every day.

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03-23-2012, 05:10 AM
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Teams are losing tons of money if their starplayers are hurt in a fight also its not their job to fight, thats what enforcers are for if you don't like it there are tons of other sports. The anti fighting crowd is getting more annoying every day.
You know what ? After reading such posts I always have sudden desire to drop gloves against whoever wrote it. WHERE i wrote I want to take fighting out ?

Read before posting.I always find that "go watch soccer" posts hilarious, but its the first time I've seen such a respond toward post wich was NOT anti-fighting.

Looks like someone who's ideal player was Scott Stevens should watch soccer. But, someone enjoying Wimp Gretzky protected by Gorilla Semenko is the man.

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03-23-2012, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by acor View Post
You know what ? After reading such posts I always have sudden desire to drop gloves against whoever wrote it. WHERE i wrote I want to take fighting out ?

Read before posting.I always find that "go watch soccer" posts hilarious, but its the first time I've seen such a respond toward post wich was NOT anti-fighting.

Looks like someone who's ideal player was Scott Stevens should watch soccer. But, someone enjoying Wimp Gretzky protected by Gorilla Semenko is the man.
Internet tough guy much?

For whatever reason you fail to understand why Gretzky didn't need to fight. So I'll try it one more time:

Gretzky made millions of $ having him out for an extended period of time means the club is losing money and points because you can't replace the best player in the world. What if he fought and broke his finger?

Therefore you have guys who are scary making 1/10 of what starplayers are making to protect such guys. I.e. Semenko

Players want the enforcers so do fans, just because 'fans' want them out doesn't mean its right.

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03-23-2012, 09:02 AM
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Gretzky made millions of $ having him out for an extended period of time means the club is losing money and points because you can't replace the best player in the world. What if he fought and broke his finger?
Stevens never needed "enforcer". And he went to HoF, won playoff MVP, captained his team to three SCs.And never felt too valuable to sit 5 minutes. But of course, Gretzky needed protection, BC he might break his fingernail.Thats why I never respect guys like Gretzky, Selanne, Sedin, or Zetterberg comparing to guys like Stevens or Chellios

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Players want the enforcers so do fans, just because 'fans' want them out doesn't mean its right.
I guess you polled all players. And yep, those who want enforcers are fans. Those who doesn't want them are "fans". Classy.

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03-23-2012, 10:26 AM
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I agree I guess in a broad sense with the idea of not liking enforcers. It isn't so much the enforcers as indivuduals but more how the game has changed to make a need for having them.

It's really a catch 22 because I loved the hockey played until the 80's but I also love how big the game has grown throughout the U.S.since then. Not just at the NHL level but more so at the minor league, Collegiate, Junior and even High School levels. When I see how big hockey is in cities that would have never had hockey back in the 70's I realize that the game needed to change in order for that to happen. As a player I liked playing back in the days of everyone taking care of their own business. As a selfish fan I would rather watch that style of play as well. But as a fan of the entire sport I realize that the sport would never have expanded the way that it has continuing the tough defensive game it was until the 80's. The game needed the offensive punch it got with the influx of the skill players. It needed Gretzky and Lemeiux then and now players like the Sedin's. I don't like the fact that players like that need protection but the fact of the matter is they do.

The NHL is virtually unwatchable for me now until the playoffs start but the growth of the NHL has led to the growth of the game a s a whole in the U.S. With leagues like the USHL, NAHL WSHL, the opportunities that kids from literally every state in the U.S. have now to either go to college or play hockey at a higher level is awesome. To see teams in TX. OK. NM. CO. AZ. the Dakotas, ID. and see where kids from those programs have gone is astounding to me. They aren't all going on to play D1 or a minor pro level but so many are going on to D2 or D3 schools that they may never have had an opportunity to attend. Take a few minutes to checkout the websites from these leagues and see just how big hockey is in places that you wouldn't expect. See where all these kids are from and they all have alumni tabs to see where they've gone on to. http://www.nahl.com/ http://www.ushl.com/ http://wshl.org/

So getting back to the OP's original point. I don't like the enforcer as an individual entity but I am grateful for many of the things that happened to create the enforcer.

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03-23-2012, 10:36 AM
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Another thread full of people who just don't get it.

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03-23-2012, 11:57 AM
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Every 4th line should have a guy who can enforce, i'll take a Big Mac, McGrattan etc on my team any day of the week!

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03-23-2012, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglepride View Post
Someone is on the same boat

In an ideal world my fourth line would look:

BigMac - Orr - McGrattan/Parros, third line would contain a guy like Prust

wanna go rough on Z and Datsukian? Okay send out the fourth line!

@OP go watch soccer, baseball, basketball, dancing or swimming if you can't stand enforcers.

Teams are losing tons of money if their starplayers are hurt in a fight also its not their job to fight, thats what enforcers are for if you don't like it there are tons of other sports. The anti fighting crowd is getting more annoying every day.
LOL. Looks better than putting in ''MEN'' sports like, Football or Rugby right?

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03-23-2012, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acor View Post
I've never had anything against fighting, however I always hated enforcers. I think existance of enforcers in fact embaraces soft players. Existance of enforcers= existance of "protected" players.
Have you ever seen something equally embarrassing to this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3Sq1Kwz-zc
I'm not the biggest Ov fan, but I don't really have a problem with this. He was willing to go with a guy that can throw okay after he did something wrong. That's all that matters to me here.

And in Brads' case, he's not saving Ovechkin from Downie, he's saving him from crossing that fine line between guts and brains.

Not that Downie would kill him, but a 4th liner can't really let a league MVP fight a low minute shift-disturber like Downie (at the time), particularly one with a reputation for doing really, really dangerous, illegal things when he gets mad. It's just unwise. Nothing good can come of it for the team.


Quote:
Another reason against enforcers is my love to gutsy, scrappy guys called "agitators". I know you like to call them rats, or even "cowards" (while, at the same time embaracing Gretzky or Sedin), but I think many of you love to see players like Ott, or Neil inmiditating softer players of opposition

Its no secret, that pesty play of Brad Marchand against Sedins was big reason why Bruins were so dominant against Canucks. Would he be as effective if he'd have to answer some roided goon ? In current era- yes, because he'd turtle, emasculine Sedin and draw instigator, but in 80s ?
My answer to this is that enforcers are respected more than rats for the same reason Boxing and MMA are professional sports and happy slapping is not. More human beings are sickened by seeing people sucker people and run than offended by seeing someone confronted eye to eye, mano a mano to answer for a problem they've caused.

Neil takes advantage of people, true, but he also has no compunction about answering to the biggest, meanest SOBs in the league, should one come calling, which is why Neal gets mad respect. Throw Deryk Engelland, Clarkson and Prust in there as well. They'll crush you bad, then drop the gloves with dudes way out of their weight class if someone doesn't like it. Gotta love guys like that.

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03-23-2012, 02:55 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglepride View Post
Gretzky made millions of $ having him out for an extended period of time means the club is losing money and points because you can't replace the best player in the world. What if he fought and broke his finger?

Therefore you have guys who are scary making 1/10 of what starplayers are making to protect such guys. I.e. Semenko
This is what I was trying to say about OV. He isn't paid to fight. To an extent, Bradley is. Bradley can't backfill OV's scoring, so he can't let OV fight a battle that he could fight.

It might seem shameful to you that Bradley "saves" him, but isn't it more shameful if he watches OV fall weird on his knee while Brads sits on the bench and they end up missing the playoffs or something?

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03-23-2012, 06:07 PM
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Exactly if you are paying someone tons of money to defend or score goals you want him on the ice because face it this guy is a gamechanger.

Sure enforcers can change the game in another way, but its a big difference having someone with a salary of 6 per or someone with 0,6 per out for a period of time.

Take Crosby for example arguable the best player in the world, should he have to drop the gloves against pests? No if Neil goes after him, Bylsma will unleash Engelland or call up BigMac.

I think some people really fail to understand the toughest job in hockey ->enforcer. These guys are also often good trained in MMA skills you can't expect your 6 per guy skipping regular hockey training in order to fight a pest someday, or answer to an enforcer. I mean, yeah you can but it would be a waste of money and standings points.

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03-23-2012, 06:19 PM
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Exactly if you are paying someone tons of money to defend or score goals you want him on the ice because face it this guy is a gamechanger.
Too bad Stevens, Lindros, Chelios and fer other guys who belong to the top of hokey elite (not saying HoF, as HoF voters are often unfair), weren't aware of it.

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Take Crosby for example arguable the best player in the world, should he have to drop the gloves against pests? No if Neil goes after him, Bylsma will unleash Engelland or call up BigMac.
Blysma won't call Engellard or Big Mac, as all enforcers in PIT in Crosby Era (BGL/Godard/BigMac) were just a sideshow freaks, not "protrectors" of Crosby. Plus Crosby, a contrary to popular opinion, IS able to hold his own and fight his own battles. Check his fightcard.

Quote:
I think some people really fail to understand the toughest job in hockey ->enforcer. These guys are also often good trained in MMA skills you can't expect your 6 per guy skipping regular hockey training in order to fight a pest someday, or answer to an enforcer. I mean, yeah you can but it would be a waste of money and standings points.
Toughest job in hockey is, in fact, agitator- you have to be decent fighter, AT LEAST NHL 3rd line worthy player, and you are in constant danger of being jumped by some roided ape.

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