I dont know whats wrong with you? You cant stop hunting omark!
Your free fantasies making you look folish,could expect more from a hf vet like you.
I have never heard that omark had a attitude problem in any of his earlier teams or in Na, A pretty quiet guy liked by his teammates. If you know that he hasnt many bounded friends in the oilers, can be explained with that he never been a regular part of the team, both here and in oklahama.
Omark is not going to be part of our team, and that has been pretty obvious a long time now. A guy on his way out mention that he hope oilers can trade him to another Nhl team when they doesnt want him. I think its good that he wants to stay in NA and perhaps give us something in return, he have already a out to sel, khl in his contract(who expires soon) and could easily bolt for europe.
we have no room for omark,but we dont need to make fairytales about him or twist quotes from him to making him look bad, the hockeyworld is small and we dont need to scare other swedish prospects to coming here if we whipping them after they didnt made enough to take a spot.
The problem is Omark fuels most of this negative speculation, he needs to walk the walk and be quiet.
I agree that he needs to zip it, no argument there. But is it really so hard to see why hes not obviously close to his teammates here? Is it possible that "nobody likes him" because of the reasons you've mentioned? I guess, sure.
Is it more realistic to think that hes been isolated and alienated by the decisions that have been made for him? Probably
you're assuming a lot in order to support your position....but that doesn't surprise me
Logically speaking I'm not sure how I'm assuming anything when it was stated and identified as conjecture
Its a potential take on what might be going on in the background. I think grilling the Oilers org on their handling of Omark is a more tiresome perspective that presumes Omark has been amenable to direction except that even the GM yesterday indicated he hasn't been.
So I wonder what line in the sand is more presumptuous. "Oh poor Omark" or the team and Org recognizing this just isn't a team guy and moving onward.
Last edited by Replacement: 04-12-2012 at 10:02 PM.
Smyth and the oilers are wandering in the desert about a contract, are they not? After seeing how out of gas he was in the second half of the season, I would be ok with him staying in that desert. Jones for me is 4th line, and pk. (and expendable, and might actually get something in return.)
Im a big fan of Harti, but seeing how we finally have some forward depth, he needs some grooming on the farm to develop his game. Id hate to have him brought up permanently too soon and spoil him. Theres some other guys that deserve a peek this coming season as well. (pitlick, lander, mps etc)
I agree that he needs to zip it, no argument there. But is it really so hard to see why hes not obviously close to his teammates here? Is it possible that "nobody likes him" because of the reasons you've mentioned? I guess, sure.
Is it more realistic to think that hes been isolated and alienated by the decisions that have been made for him? Probably
you're assuming a lot in order to support your position....but that doesn't surprise me
- Smyth was made an offer, and as Tambo put it - "the ball is in his court".
- Jones has proven to produce on any line you put him. He's a true plug and play player that ANY team needs to be successful. For you to casually write him off tells me a lot. That guy is the very definition of depth.
- Harti i like too, but he has a spot on the Oilers to lose at this point. It's his for the keeping if he wants it bad enough.
- Lander already had a "peek", and we'll see how he does at camp. MPS too. Pitlick needs to learn to be successful in OK first IMO, which he hasn't done yet.
After all is said and done in the post here, where's the space for Omark? There is none - at least not with the Oilers.
Oh and for the bolded...Nothing but a pot calling a kettle black. No offense there Replacement.
- Smyth was made an offer, and as Tambo put it - "the ball is in his court".
- Jones has proven to produce on any line you put him. He's a true plug and play player that ANY team needs to be successful. For you to casually write him off tells me a lot. That guy is the very definition of depth.
- Harti i like too, but he has a spot on the Oilers to lose at this point. It's his for the keeping if he wants it bad enough.
- Lander already had a "peek", and we'll see how he does at camp. MPS too. Pitlick needs to learn to be successful in OK first IMO, which he hasn't done yet.
After all is said and done in the post here, where's the space for Omark? There is none - at least not with the Oilers.
Oh and for the bolded...Nothing but a pot calling a kettle black. No offense there Replacement.
Logically speaking I'm not sure how I'm assuming anything when it was stated and identified as conjecture
Its a potential take on what might be going on in the background. I think grilling the Oilers org on their handling of Omark is a more tiresome perspective that presumes Omark has been amenable to direction except that even the GM yesterday indicated he hasn't been.
So I wonder what line in the sand is more presumptuous. "Oh poor Omark" or the team and Org recognizing this just isn't a team guy and moving onward.
So as to not drag this thread down a road of debate over poetic license and paraphrasing examples, I will just say I suppose it all depends on the color of the glasses we're looking through. And basing assumptions on what we see makes it easy to present arguments to support our own positions. That's the devil in the details when we have more opinions than facts, and the devil that I'm trying to advocate: that we just don't know enough to write the guy off yet.
Im not so much crying "oh poor omark" as I am crying "please management, do your due diligence". I can see which side of the fence I appear to be standing on when it comes to this dead horse, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booya42
- Smyth was made an offer, and as Tambo put it - "the ball is in his court".
- Jones has proven to produce on any line you put him. He's a true plug and play player that ANY team needs to be successful. For you to casually write him off tells me a lot. That guy is the very definition of depth.
- Harti i like too, but he has a spot on the Oilers to lose at this point. It's his for the keeping if he wants it bad enough.
- Lander already had a "peek", and we'll see how he does at camp. MPS too. Pitlick needs to learn to be successful in OK first IMO, which he hasn't done yet.
After all is said and done in the post here, where's the space for Omark? There is none - at least not with the Oilers.
Oh and for the bolded...Nothing but a pot calling a kettle black. No offense there Replacement.
I thought that my implication, that omark could have a try at smyths spot in the event that he were not to return, was clear. Guess not. As far as jones, I guess that's just one more player that we see differently. I recognize his value, but if you don't think he is a boat anchor playing with eberly and rnh, I don't know what to tell you.
How do you know harti has a spot to lose? Do you work in the organization? What would replacement say right now.....unsubstantiated rhetoric, I think...
Keep in mind I'm not the only one "casually writing off a player", wouldn't want to be a "pot calling the kettle black"
I suppose it all depends on the color of the glasses we're looking through. And basing assumptions on what we see makes it easy to present arguments to support our own positions. That's the devil in the details when we don't have all the facts, and the devil that I'm trying to advocate: that we just don't know enough to write the guy off yet.
Im not so much crying "oh poor omark" as I am crying "please management, do your due diligence". I can see which side of the fence I'm assumed to be standing on when it comes to this dead horse, though.
Well if you're familiar enough with my writing here to assumptively bash me on my views you would know I'm hardly a management apologist and take many the hardline on less than ideal due dilligence that I sense in this org. So I can certainly see that perspective.
But cynical as I am about the org even I'm not going to die on that cross when it comes to Omark.
Especially as the writing is pretty much on the wall and as stated by the org.
Tambo: "The coaches in OKC worked extremely hard to get him to play more of a complete game within a team structure and sometimes he does that and sometimes he doesn't"
Yeah, I may as well have written that last bit as it so closely matches my own take on the player. Its interesting that the orgs take is identical.
Omark doesn't buy in, the org knows it from coaching to management, and its game, set, match here. Little point even arguing about it.
ps as far as your earlier take that the org has "isolated" Omark and is responsible for Omarks not fitting in here why don't you substantiate some of that idle rambling. Seeing as how you're all about the clear facts here. Or maybe mention how Harti is consistently leaping higher hurdles here with FAR less GP opportunity granted.
Last edited by Replacement: 04-13-2012 at 02:35 AM.
Well if you're familiar enough with my writing here to assumptively bash me on my views you would know I'm hardly a management apologist and take many the hardline on less than ideal due dilligence that I sense in this org. So I can certainly see that perspective.
But cynical as I am about management even I'm not going to die on that cross when it comes to Omark.
Especially as the writing is pretty much on the wall and as stated by the org.
Tambo: "The coaches in OKC worked extremely hard to get him to play more of a complete game within a team structure and sometimes he does that and sometimes he doesn't"
Yeah, I may as well have written that last bit as it so closely matches my own take on the player. Its interesting that the orgs take is identical.
Omark doesn't buy in, the org knows it from coaching to management, and its game, set, match here. Little point even arguing about it.
I would hardly say that I'm bashing? I feel that you're premature with your take on Omark, and disagree with your method of presenting your position from time to time. Its easy to cherrypick a quote that supports your argument here (see above), misrepresent an observation there, add a not-so subtle nuance in your delivery and, before you know it, its irrefutable.
Is it so wrong that I'm checking your work?
It does seem that Omark doesn't quite buy in, doesn't it? After watching the number of questionable coaching decisions and numerous management debacles during the kevin lowe era, not to mention total lack of results, I'm not sure I blame him.
Smyth and the oilers are wandering in the desert about a contract, are they not? After seeing how out of gas he was in the second half of the season, I would be ok with him staying in that desert. Jones for me is 4th line, and pk. (and expendable, and might actually get something in return.)
Im a big fan of Harti, but seeing how we finally have some forward depth, he needs some grooming on the farm to develop his game. Id hate to have him brought up permanently too soon and spoil him. Theres some other guys that deserve a peek this coming season as well. (pitlick, lander, mps etc)
I agree that he needs to zip it, no argument there. But is it really so hard to see why hes not obviously close to his teammates here? Is it possible that "nobody likes him" because of the reasons you've mentioned? I guess, sure.
Is it more realistic to think that hes been isolated and alienated by the decisions that have been made for him? Probably
you're assuming a lot in order to support your position....but that doesn't surprise me
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucktown
I would hardly say that I'm bashing? I feel that you're premature with your take on Omark, and disagree with your method of presenting your position from time to time. Its easy to cherrypick a quote that supports your argument here (see above), misrepresent an observation there, add a not-so subtle nuance in your delivery and, before you know it, its irrefutable.
Is it so wrong that I'm checking your work?
Check all you want. But take a run at me and I'll be looking for the open hit. Kind of how it works.
Quote:
It does seem that Omark doesn't quite buy in, doesn't it? After watching the number of questionable coaching decisions and numerous management debacles during the kevin lowe era, not to mention total lack of results, I'm not sure I blame him.
Well that says a lot then about your view on this doesn't it?
So stop moving goalposts. Whats your premise, whats your play?
ps as far as your earlier take that the org has "isolated" Omark and is responsible for Omarks not fitting in here why don't you substantiate some of that idle rambling. Seeing as how you're all about the clear facts here. Or maybe mention how Harti is consistently leaping higher hurdles here with FAR less GP opportunity granted.
Not sure why you feel the need to get hostile? I said "Is it more realistic to think that hes been isolated and alienated by the decisions that have been made for him? Probably". That is hardly a statement of fact. I surmised that it would be difficult to find an identity and a place, let alone build and maintain relationships in a team environment when you are at the mercy of an organization that makes all your decisions for you.
And that it might be more realistic than your observation that "Could be that the team (players and management alike)* view Omark as just a bad attitude who isn't really giving it his best here.) The guy that goes through the motions but really wants out of town and likely has all along."
Check all you want. But take a run at me and I'll be looking for the open hit. Kind of how it works.
Well that says a lot then about your view on this doesn't it?
So stop moving goalposts. Whats your premise, whats your play?
The Oilers screwed Omark over?
The Oilers screwed Omarks chances over?
Or the Oilers grapes were sour anyway.
hmmm, sounds familiar.
My premise is that I want to see a legitimate and repeatable cup run in the near future. I think Omark is and was the master of his own destiny here, responsible for both his on and off ice conduct. I think its the organization's job to put the players that it is responsible for in the best possible position to succeed. Somewhere in there, between linus and the org, something missed the mark. No pun intended.
assuming we can agree on that, the debate now is what is the next logical step? Cut your losses and move on? Try and recover for maximum gain? and around and around we go....
"you're assuming a lot in order to support your position....but that doesn't surprise me" edit:
"What would replacement say right now.....unsubstantiated rhetoric, I think..."
edit: Thanks for clarifying these comments in pm bucktown, I'll stand down, and as we both know things can get real testy here.
So tell me what did I conclude at the point that you took those shots? You may be curious to know that I was until recently in favor of Omark getting another chance next year and had argued him getting more of a chance this season.
But yesterday I read the orgs comments. I think it reads that its pretty done here.
Quote:
I said "Is it more realistic to think that hes been isolated and alienated by the decisions that have been made for him? Probably". That is hardly a statement of fact. I surmised that it would be difficult to find an identity and a place, let alone build and maintain relationships in a team environment when you are at the mercy of an organization that makes all your decisions for you.
? Welcome to pro sports. Don't all orgs do this with most players? Really I have no idea what you're going for here. Sounds like an excuse.
Quote:
And that it might be more realistic than your observation that "Could be that the team (players and management alike)* view Omark as just a bad attitude who isn't really giving it his best here.) The guy that goes through the motions but really wants out of town and likely has all along."
2 sides of the same coin
Well I tend to recognize passive resistance after a while and especially when its the org calling it out on a player when they've worked hard trying to get him ready for the NHL game. A different take is that the Oilers are possibly doing due dilligence by recognizing this isn't a useful player here.
You probably missed it but I pretty much called the Omark dies moment here on the Oiler in a PGT a couple weeks back. Omark brutally screws up a coverage in own zone, Oilers promptly get scored against from the guy in the slot that Omark was backing off from, after first recognizing the need to cover..he actually covered the player and then inexplicably just let him go..
5mins later, and I think on the very next shift, Omark is seen sucking for the puck at center ice while his team is hemmed in its own zone and can't get the puck out.
I said at the time thats going to nail Omarks coffin here. That was AFTER his long stint with Nelson in OKC.
It was a WTF moment. Even on the telecast they're questioning how a player that just blew an own zone coverage leading to a GA is showing so little self preservation on the ensuing shift. Like wheres his head at?
Omark really doesn't seem to get what are even elementary expectations from coaches at this level. This view being confirmed by the org yesterday.
Last edited by Replacement: 04-13-2012 at 10:07 AM.
Reason: edit: its all good.
the entire team sucks outside of 2 dudes. and Hall is turning up fairly overrated. can barely stay on his skates half the time and plays so out of control that 90% of his rushes up the ice just turn into dead plays (hi, i just sag off you. shoot it into my shin pads every time). or his dekes at 300mph are telegraphed and saved.
tell us who comes after Yakupov after they finish in the bottom 3 again next year, o' wise one.
?? Not sure if serious??
Anyway I have defended Omark a lot before this year but I don't care anymore. Our top 6 is going to be amazing going forward.
Hall-RNH-Eberle
Yakupov-Gagner-Hemsky
Other than Pittburgh there is no better top 6 POTENTIAL wise than this top 6.
Having said that we still have some other wholes to fill before we can become a great team.
Last night I watched Omark in an exhibition game with team Sweden against Switzerland.
He's on a try out deal where he needs to prove he deserves a spot on the squad to the WC. Before he went to the NHL he was dominant on the national team, now he was almost invisible not counting a couple of good plays. How can he go from being dominant and then relatively useless whe he should be peaking right now? The/his development in the NHL/AHL made him a far worse player than he was before - what's up with this?
He lost the speed, the strenght, the technique, the passing and the hockey sense.
How?
before I could always spot Omark on the ice due to his style, the way he played the game and the way he moved. Now I had a hard time making him out at all?
Last night I watched Omark in an exhibition game with team Sweden against Switzerland.
He's on a try out deal where he needs to prove he deserves a spot on the squad to the WC. Before he went to the NHL he was dominant on the national team, now he was almost invisible not counting a couple of good plays. How can he go from being dominant and then relatively useless whe he should be peaking right now? The/his development in the NHL/AHL made him a far worse player than he was before - what's up with this?
He lost the speed, the strenght, the technique, the passing and the hockey sense.
How?
before I could always spot Omark on the ice due to his style, the way he played the game and the way he moved. Now I had a hard time making him out at all?
Probably because you remember the "Myth" of Linus Omark not the "Player" Linus Omark.
Last night I watched Omark in an exhibition game with team Sweden against Switzerland.
He's on a try out deal where he needs to prove he deserves a spot on the squad to the WC. Before he went to the NHL he was dominant on the national team, now he was almost invisible not counting a couple of good plays. How can he go from being dominant and then relatively useless whe he should be peaking right now? The/his development in the NHL/AHL made him a far worse player than he was before - what's up with this?
He lost the speed, the strenght, the technique, the passing and the hockey sense.
How?
before I could always spot Omark on the ice due to his style, the way he played the game and the way he moved. Now I had a hard time making him out at all?
All Tambo's fault ... he put weights in his skates and swapped out his sticks with gag sticks that explode on impact
Last night I watched Omark in an exhibition game with team Sweden against Switzerland.
He's on a try out deal where he needs to prove he deserves a spot on the squad to the WC. Before he went to the NHL he was dominant on the national team, now he was almost invisible not counting a couple of good plays. How can he go from being dominant and then relatively useless whe he should be peaking right now? The/his development in the NHL/AHL made him a far worse player than he was before - what's up with this?
He lost the speed, the strenght, the technique, the passing and the hockey sense.
How?
before I could always spot Omark on the ice due to his style, the way he played the game and the way he moved. Now I had a hard time making him out at all?
I have to agree with this post.......I thought Omark got progressively worse (and more invisible) in his time here.
His first time, he displayed some good down low puck movement in the offensive zone and some creativity. As time went, they became less frequent. Even in the shoot out, he seemed to get worse.
Last night I watched Omark in an exhibition game with team Sweden against Switzerland.
He's on a try out deal where he needs to prove he deserves a spot on the squad to the WC. Before he went to the NHL he was dominant on the national team, now he was almost invisible not counting a couple of good plays. How can he go from being dominant and then relatively useless whe he should be peaking right now? The/his development in the NHL/AHL made him a far worse player than he was before - what's up with this?
He lost the speed, the strenght, the technique, the passing and the hockey sense.
How?
before I could always spot Omark on the ice due to his style, the way he played the game and the way he moved. Now I had a hard time making him out at all?
Rather than always assuming its the Oilers that made him worse why not look at what actually transpired and from people that watched all the games up here?
You guys always seem to make a big point about knowing Omark so much better from seeing him in Europe before which is fine. But in NA, we've now seen much more of Omark these last couple years unless you somehow are getting all the games.
Anyway, in a nutshell what happened to Omark here is what happens to a lot of players at a higher level of play. Omark basically having to play against bigger, stronger, faster, and better players than he's ever seen before. Opportunities "close" here in a fraction of the time they would in the SEL. Also of course the smaller ice granting less time and space to begin with. Of course much better goalies that he simply wasn't beating with tricks. What has happened to both Omark and MPS here is just having to batlle through and try to get some edge, build a niche, while playing against better opponents in a much harder game to play.
MPS and Omark from that point diverge. Omark had the better camp in the first year, but hanging around camp one got the impression that MPS was the much more amenable of the two players and worked hard and listened to any and all direction. He has continued to do that ever since. Omark, considering himself a star already(albeit also questioning his own skills) has instead been a study in contrasts, a guy that buys in one day and believes what he's hearing and that he needs to work harder and be more focused, while on other days the frustrated Omark regresses and struggles even more. Motivationally speaking this has been a night and day player and everybody in the org has mentioned it. That he just doesn't apply himself consistently but has to at this level to be of much value.
It is possible the team could have done more to build Omarks confidence. But they knew full well that Omarks tendency to listen to direction was even less when he was having success. So how they worked with the player was to make him work for his chances. The Oilers did find this was the only way Omark was amenable to that which was asked of him.
The Oilers have no such problems really with any other young player on the roster.
Last edited by Replacement: 04-20-2012 at 11:16 AM.
People is so fast to write long letters about omark!
I saw the game too, can the easy answer be that hes a bit rusty, not playing a game for a long time and been injured before that. We have to wait and see!
Last night I watched Omark in an exhibition game with team Sweden against Switzerland.
He's on a try out deal where he needs to prove he deserves a spot on the squad to the WC. Before he went to the NHL he was dominant on the national team, now he was almost invisible not counting a couple of good plays. How can he go from being dominant and then relatively useless whe he should be peaking right now? The/his development in the NHL/AHL made him a far worse player than he was before - what's up with this?
He lost the speed, the strenght, the technique, the passing and the hockey sense.
How?
before I could always spot Omark on the ice due to his style, the way he played the game and the way he moved. Now I had a hard time making him out at all?
