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University/College Questions Part III (incl. protest discussion)

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Old
04-29-2012, 08:02 AM
  #951
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Engineers just design and build the device, physicists can do the former but also conduct the original theory and research.



I can't possibly give you a number. However, think about it. Everything in this world is ruled by physics.

Quantum mechanics is directly responsible for the information age we see today. Transistors (communication), computers, the internet, lasers, all made possible by the work of physicists, and in many cases were directly created by physicists. Applied physics is at the root of pretty much any technological advance.

Physicists will always be in demand as long as we live in a society that places a huge importance on science.
Just because you apply physics doesn't make you a physicist. By that logic, if a physicist uses math to calculate, he is now a mathematician for that given invention.

If we go by their careers, a lot are engineers, chemists and so on. If you wanna argue 75% of inventions come from the previous study of physics, you make have a strong case. If you argue that 75% of inventions/innovations are created BY physicists...you won't win that one. I'd be shocked if the number was even 25%.

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04-29-2012, 11:54 AM
  #952
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I don't. I suppose you can add up all the major universities across quebec and get a ballpark number but others have better estimations.

I would estimate the number to be say 5% of the population.

I added up the numbers of students(via wikipedia) of quebec universities. Some had no numbers but apparently currently enrolled exceeds 306665(number I got) for undergraduate and graduate studies combined. Quebec has a population just under 8 million so yah, about 4-5% of the population.

If you wanna guess the revenues by the end of the hike we can say about 550 million per year. Unless i'm missing something. I just did 1600*350000 quick for estimation and got 560 mil and figured that was a little high from over estimation of students.

I don't know if certain schools are excluded or what the deal is, so this is pretty much simple math here.

Edit: I've googled it and numbers are in the 300 mil ball park so I overestimated for sure. lol



Maybe i'm tired but why only 7000? Unless you're referring to a number which corresponds to who it will become 'inaccessible' for.
So basically around the same amount of the new arena in Quebec city hmmmm...

It seems to me theses hikes to the students are unnecessary. They could of easily gotten the same amount from other institutions. For example: the CCQ (commission de construction de Quebec). They are sitting on billions of dollars and are just wasting money on useless sponsoring. They are official sponsors of the Impact. I don't see the need for them to sponsor or advertise because if you work in the construction industry you have to pay them no matter what. Couche Tard just invested a few billions in Europe recently with Quebecer's money, why don't they tax the **** out of that?
Another way I thought of the government raising money would be to fix the "tipping" system in restaurants. Waiters make on average 15% of their sales in tips yet the government assumes they make 8% and taxes only on that. Think of how much cash goes untraceable with 7% of all restaurant sales going under the table.
I can go on and on. I think our education system should be the last thing thing we should go after for money. Cheap Education and free healthcare should be the things that define us as a society.

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04-29-2012, 12:06 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Cheap Education and free healthcare should be the things that define us as a society.
And Quebec will remain the cheapest place for an education in North America.

I'm not excusing the government. I think Qc, and Mtl for that matter, could be such a more desirable place if we had the right leaders.
I think Charest is a clown, but I also think the students are acting like spoiled brats.

Neither side has reacted properly here.

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04-29-2012, 12:12 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
And Quebec will remain the cheapest place for an education in North America.

I'm not excusing the government. I think Qc, and Mtl for that matter, could be such a more desirable place if we had the right leaders.
I think Charest is a clown, but I also think the students are acting like spoiled brats.

Neither side has reacted properly here.
But we also have the highest tax rates...

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04-29-2012, 12:31 PM
  #955
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But we also have the highest tax rates...
And the worst roads, EVER.
There are countries that get bombed regularly and still have better roads than here.
It's unacceptable.
It's also unacceptable, or even embarrassing that someone who needs to see a specialist for its health will have to wait at the very least a month or two before doing so.
It's also sad that, when you go to the ER, if you don't have a bone sticking out of your body, you'll likely wait 4hours before seeing a doctor, who will probably see you pretty quickly and appear not to care, right on a piece of paper, and probably refer you to someone else.

There are plenty of problems here, pricey education is not one of them.

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04-29-2012, 01:48 PM
  #956
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And the worst roads, EVER.
There are countries that get bombed regularly and still have better roads than here.
It's unacceptable.
It's also unacceptable, or even embarrassing that someone who needs to see a specialist for its health will have to wait at the very least a month or two before doing so.
It's also sad that, when you go to the ER, if you don't have a bone sticking out of your body, you'll likely wait 4hours before seeing a doctor, who will probably see you pretty quickly and appear not to care, right on a piece of paper, and probably refer you to someone else.

There are plenty of problems here, pricey education is not one of them.
A 4-hour-wait? That's a speedy visit in my experience.

It's funny how no one ever has any answers as to why these noble freedom fighting protesters don't seem to give a **** about any one of the provinces more pressing matters.

I mean, people are hanging effigies of Jean Charest...over tuition hikes. That's the kind of thing protesters do when they're fighting against a murderous tyrant dictator. If that doesn't put this whole ridiculous movement into perspective I don't know what does.

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04-29-2012, 01:51 PM
  #957
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A 4-hour-wait? That's a speedy visit in my experience.
I don't know anymore, haven't been to the ER in a while and I only go through private clinics now for whatever consultation I need. It's expensive, but well worth not waiting hours rolling your thumbs.

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04-29-2012, 03:05 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
But we also have the highest tax rates...
So you want everything for free without paying any more taxes?

Just take a look at countries where education is free.

TAV is 25% and income taxes go from 40 to 70% of salary....

Nothing is free. This is what strikers should realise...

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04-29-2012, 04:26 PM
  #959
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So basically around the same amount of the new arena in Quebec city hmmmm...

It seems to me theses hikes to the students are unnecessary. They could of easily gotten the same amount from other institutions. For example: the CCQ (commission de construction de Quebec). They are sitting on billions of dollars and are just wasting money on useless sponsoring. They are official sponsors of the Impact. I don't see the need for them to sponsor or advertise because if you work in the construction industry you have to pay them no matter what. Couche Tard just invested a few billions in Europe recently with Quebecer's money, why don't they tax the **** out of that?
Another way I thought of the government raising money would be to fix the "tipping" system in restaurants. Waiters make on average 15% of their sales in tips yet the government assumes they make 8% and taxes only on that. Think of how much cash goes untraceable with 7% of all restaurant sales going under the table.
I can go on and on. I think our education system should be the last thing thing we should go after for money. Cheap Education and free healthcare should be the things that define us as a society.
I think this is the root of the issue some think everyone but the students should pay.

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04-29-2012, 04:29 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Alaix View Post
So you want everything for free without paying any more taxes?

Just take a look at countries where education is free.

TAV is 25% and income taxes go from 40 to 70% of salary....

Nothing is free. This is what strikers should realise...
People look at the upfront price and say thats free or cheap good but they don't look at all the other fees look at health care people think its free the fact is its not.

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04-29-2012, 04:40 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
So basically around the same amount of the new arena in Quebec city hmmmm...

It seems to me theses hikes to the students are unnecessary. They could of easily gotten the same amount from other institutions. For example: the CCQ (commission de construction de Quebec). They are sitting on billions of dollars and are just wasting money on useless sponsoring. They are official sponsors of the Impact. I don't see the need for them to sponsor or advertise because if you work in the construction industry you have to pay them no matter what. Couche Tard just invested a few billions in Europe recently with Quebecer's money, why don't they tax the **** out of that?
Another way I thought of the government raising money would be to fix the "tipping" system in restaurants. Waiters make on average 15% of their sales in tips yet the government assumes they make 8% and taxes only on that. Think of how much cash goes untraceable with 7% of all restaurant sales going under the table.
I can go on and on. I think our education system should be the last thing thing we should go after for money. Cheap Education and free healthcare should be the things that define us as a society.
Ah yes. Keep digging into the pockets of those who work hard for their money so that everyone can go study Philosophy for 5 years. Good idea.

You can't just run around taxing everyone and everything so that people can dick around in school getting a useless degree. If you tax the **** out of corporations they'll just cut jobs to make up for the lost revenue, then you have a ton of people out of work for somebody else's benefit.

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04-29-2012, 04:50 PM
  #962
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I wonder how many students will be going to Osheaga this year.

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04-29-2012, 05:39 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
So basically around the same amount of the new arena in Quebec city hmmmm...

It seems to me theses hikes to the students are unnecessary. They could of easily gotten the same amount from other institutions. For example: the CCQ (commission de construction de Quebec). They are sitting on billions of dollars and are just wasting money on useless sponsoring. They are official sponsors of the Impact. I don't see the need for them to sponsor or advertise because if you work in the construction industry you have to pay them no matter what. Couche Tard just invested a few billions in Europe recently with Quebecer's money, why don't they tax the **** out of that?
Another way I thought of the government raising money would be to fix the "tipping" system in restaurants. Waiters make on average 15% of their sales in tips yet the government assumes they make 8% and taxes only on that. Think of how much cash goes untraceable with 7% of all restaurant sales going under the table.
I can go on and on. I think our education system should be the last thing thing we should go after for money. Cheap Education and free healthcare should be the things that define us as a society.
While I agree there's many other places government can regulate to get extra money...I disagree with the notion that students should be given a free pass. IMO, the FIRST place money should go is in healthcare rather than saving students a few thousand at the end of their degree.

Also, some of your examples are weird. For instance, Couche Tard investing money in europe. If you plan to tax an investment not even taking place on your own soil then...you'll just be sent to court instantly.

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04-29-2012, 07:20 PM
  #964
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http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canad...153511818.html

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Martin Patriquin of Maclean's magazine explains that low tuition rates don't equate to high levels of university enrollment.

"According to a study published by the Higher Education Quality Council of Ontario, about 30 per cent of Quebec's young people go to university, six percentage points below the Canadian average and more than 20 percentage points behind Atlantic Canada, where the average tuition is nearly three times that in Quebec," he wrote in a column published Friday.
Quote:
"The student groups are committed to social justice, yet they reduce the problem to simple affordability when it's so much more complex. There's not much evidence that people aren't going to university because of financial considerations."

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04-29-2012, 07:36 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I wonder how many students will be going to Osheaga this year.
I'm considering going for Brand New. Don't wanna pay $80 for them, but they'll probably not be back for years. Might go on strike over this.

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04-29-2012, 08:19 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
And Quebec will remain the cheapest place for an education in North America.

I'm not excusing the government. I think Qc, and Mtl for that matter, could be such a more desirable place if we had the right leaders.
I think Charest is a clown, but I also think the students are acting like spoiled brats.

Neither side has reacted properly here.
Spoiled brats? Spoiled would describe the students who get a car for their birthday, who are for the hike because they have some vacations planned okay, and it won't affect them negatively and then go cry in front of the judges to get an injunction when democracy didn't work the way they wanted.

Would spoiled brats risk or sacrifice their semester in the name of social solidarity? Would spoiled brats bother to take the streets and spend hours in AGs?

If the striking students were spoiled brats, they wouldn't even be striking anymore since it's tedious and uncomfortable and the government doesn't give a ****, and if they were ''spoiled'' they wouldn't mind paying/letting their parents pay.

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04-29-2012, 08:31 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by Souvenirs View Post
Spoiled brats? Spoiled would describe the students who get a car for their birthday, who are for the hike because they have some vacations planned okay, and it won't affect them negatively and then go cry in front of the judges to get an injunction when democracy didn't work the way they wanted.

Would spoiled brats risk or sacrifice their semester in the name of social solidarity? Would spoiled brats bother to take the streets and spend hours in AGs?

If the striking students were spoiled brats, they wouldn't even be striking anymore since it's tedious and uncomfortable and the government doesn't give a ****, and if they were ''spoiled'' they wouldn't mind paying/letting their parents pay.
But isn't it so much more fun to delegitimize an entire group based on a stereotype?

I mean... the guy didn't even mention the iPhones! ... the iPhones!

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04-29-2012, 08:41 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by Souvenirs View Post
Spoiled brats? Spoiled would describe the students who get a car for their birthday, who are for the hike because they have some vacations planned okay, and it won't affect them negatively and then go cry in front of the judges to get an injunction when democracy didn't work the way they wanted.

Would spoiled brats risk or sacrifice their semester in the name of social solidarity? Would spoiled brats bother to take the streets and spend hours in AGs?

If the striking students were spoiled brats, they wouldn't even be striking anymore since it's tedious and uncomfortable and the government doesn't give a ****, and if they were ''spoiled'' they wouldn't mind paying/letting their parents pay.
You're right, spoiled is one thing but some are in too deep. Flat out refusing to negotiate and calling offers "insults" seem injust and that is giving the impression of spoiled.

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04-29-2012, 08:48 PM
  #969
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Spoiled brats? Spoiled would describe the students who get a car for their birthday, who are for the hike because they have some vacations planned okay, and it won't affect them negatively and then go cry in front of the judges to get an injunction when democracy didn't work the way they wanted.

Would spoiled brats risk or sacrifice their semester in the name of social solidarity? Would spoiled brats bother to take the streets and spend hours in AGs?

If the striking students were spoiled brats, they wouldn't even be striking anymore since it's tedious and uncomfortable and the government doesn't give a ****, and if they were ''spoiled'' they wouldn't mind paying/letting their parents pay.
This is part of a bigger agenda there are some that want free this and free that and only the 1% should pay taxes and cover all costs now i would not call the students spoiled i would say there out of touch with reality.

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04-29-2012, 11:06 PM
  #970
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Charest is a joke of a PM...

But, if the tuition crisis is to be the starting point of a larger administrative cleansing, then so be it.

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04-29-2012, 11:42 PM
  #971
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One thing that I wish protesters put more emphasis on is how the student loans industry is ridiculously advantaging banks. The taxpayers are assuming 100% of the risk, since all loans are 100% government guaranteed, so if say a person with student loan turned out to never pay them the government (i.e. you and me) would pay the banks the loans + interests... but 100% of the profits, which are substantial, are going to the banks.

Can anyone explain to me WHY this makes any sense?

If the government was actually banking the interests themselves (and thus not actually have to pay any interest on loans for students while they are studying or before they can pay the banks), it would put a LOT of money back in education. But it's all going to private banks instead who have ZERO RISK on the loans. Imo this is actually a much bigger issue than the hike itself when you're talking about the financing of education.

This is generally the main crux of any partnership between private and public. Public ends up assuming the major part of the risks and private takes the major part of the benefits. We just get screwed every time. And you can't assume that Charest's Plan Nord will be anything different...

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04-30-2012, 12:23 AM
  #972
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One thing that I wish protesters put more emphasis on is how the student loans industry is ridiculously advantaging banks. The taxpayers are assuming 100% of the risk, since all loans are 100% government guaranteed, so if say a person with student loan turned out to never pay them the government (i.e. you and me) would pay the banks the loans + interests... but 100% of the profits, which are substantial, are going to the banks.

Can anyone explain to me WHY this makes any sense?

If the government was actually banking the interests themselves (and thus not actually have to pay any interest on loans for students while they are studying or before they can pay the banks), it would put a LOT of money back in education. But it's all going to private banks instead who have ZERO RISK on the loans. Imo this is actually a much bigger issue than the hike itself when you're talking about the financing of education.

This is generally the main crux of any partnership between private and public. Public ends up assuming the major part of the risks and private takes the major part of the benefits. We just get screwed every time. And you can't assume that Charest's Plan Nord will be anything different...
Because then the banks would not lend you the money to begin with, which is worse.

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04-30-2012, 12:47 AM
  #973
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and it won't affect them negatively and then go cry in front of the judges to get an injunction when democracy didn't work the way they wanted.
You can't use "democracy" to decide whether or not someone can get access to the service they paid for. If this weren't the case, none of these injunctions would pass. The sooner people realize this the better.

Quote:
Would spoiled brats risk or sacrifice their semester in the name of social solidarity? Would spoiled brats bother to take the streets and spend hours in AGs?
Spoiled is the wrong word. Incredibly out of touch would be a better description.

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04-30-2012, 02:25 AM
  #974
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Spoiled is the wrong word. Incredibly out of touch would be a better description.
Jean Garon, ex-Education minister and economist (currently not in any political party), is for a tuition freeze and think it's possible to do so. He's supporting the student movement. Do you think he's also incredibly out of touch? I mean, compare to you and all your political and economic knowledge?

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04-30-2012, 02:46 AM
  #975
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Jean Garon, ex-Education minister and economist (currently not in any political party), is for a tuition freeze and think it's possible to do so. He's supporting the student movement. Do you think he's also incredibly out of touch? I mean, compare to you and all your political and economic knowledge?
Of course it's possible. I never said it wasn't. Where the money comes from is the issue.

And don't act like the majority of protesters have put nearly as much thought into it as he did.

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