HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 6.0

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-26-2012, 05:05 AM
  #326
Beendair Donedat
Registered User
 
Beendair Donedat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,678
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Weight gain wont improve his release or his hands though, and those will keep him from scoring in the NHL
Glad you've got your crystal ball on overdrive tonight.

Beendair Donedat is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 07:22 AM
  #327
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Glad you've got your crystal ball on overdrive tonight.
I've said its my opinion wartching him in games that he just doesn't have offensive skill. Isn't that what we are all doing here, looking at prospects and doing an amateur analysis of their talent and giving opinions?

Don't be so offended just because I think this late 1st/early 2nd round pick doesn't have the offensive ability to be the next lucic.

I've watched the kid play, and in those games I've gained the opinion that he's not going to become an NHL goal scorer. Heck he plays second line time now and barely scores.

Beakermania* is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 07:54 AM
  #328
Halifaxhab*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
I've been hyping Sutter as a pick for a bit now. Would love to draft him, he's got size and pedigree. I thought we were going to get Brandon a few years back. I'll take Lukas though, he would be a solid prospect.
I think he'd end up as a really good 3rd line C. He can play the PK and offer up some decent secondary scoring, and still fit in with some guys with talent or be able to grind it out.

I we got him in the second round I would be happy

Halifaxhab* is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 07:56 AM
  #329
FrankMTL
Registered User
 
FrankMTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,660
vCash: 500
How much better is Yakupov than Grigorenko really?

FrankMTL is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 08:21 AM
  #330
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,964
vCash: 500
I love that Lukas Sutter 6'0 has "got size", but people complain about Yakupov's size at 5'11 1/2

Beakermania* is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 08:33 AM
  #331
Beendair Donedat
Registered User
 
Beendair Donedat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,678
vCash: 500
Lukas Sutter plays a big mans game with almost 30 fights in the last couple seasons along with a lot of hits. Very physical player. I don't think Yakupov plays that similar style. Sutter is a big 6'0 player because he plays bigger.

Furthermore I wasn't offended at your comments, I said we'd agree to disagree on a player's assesment and you kept pushing your viewpoint. I never compared him to Lucic at any point, Not sure why you keep bringing that name up. Anything we do at this point is pure speculation, so your opinion is no more valuable than my own. Time will tell. Cheers.

Beendair Donedat is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 08:43 AM
  #332
Halifaxhab*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
I love that Lukas Sutter 6'0 has "got size", but people complain about Yakupov's size at 5'11 1/2
well, Sutter does have the extra 10lbs as well. Which at that age and level is significant. But you can't really compare the two. One has elite level scoring talent. The other plays a more defensive gritty game with some scoring. One uses his size for his style of game while the other one doesn't really rely on that, he uses it more to deal with the physicality of the checking against him.

Not to mention one is a concensus 1st overall type pick and the other is a concensus 2nd rounder.

Halifaxhab* is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 08:49 AM
  #333
poetryinmotion
Registered User
 
poetryinmotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,087
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
How much better is Yakupov than Grigorenko really?
Tough to answer accurately, but the gap isn't huge. I'd rather get the big ppg center we've always dreamed of rather than a winger though. Plus, not that I'm saying Yakupov is small but he isn't 6'3 and he plays a reckless style that could see him hurt more often than not in the long run whereas Grigorenko with his effective style can play until he is 40 and not be sidelined as much.

Yakupov gives me shades of a young Koivu. Obviously a much more skilled one but he might become damaged goods at some point.

poetryinmotion is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 08:56 AM
  #334
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Lukas Sutter plays a big mans game with almost 30 fights in the last couple seasons along with a lot of hits. Very physical player. I don't think Yakupov plays that similar style. Sutter is a big 6'0 player because he plays bigger.

Furthermore I wasn't offended at your comments, I said we'd agree to disagree on a player's assesment and you kept pushing your viewpoint. I never compared him to Lucic at any point, Not sure why you keep bringing that name up. Anything we do at this point is pure speculation, so your opinion is no more valuable than my own. Time will tell. Cheers.
Yakupov does not play small, he has a similar style to ovechkin in that he hits a lot.

Beakermania* is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 09:24 AM
  #335
domdo345
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,109
vCash: 500
Going to see the big Russian center in Québec tonight, i hope Drummondville puts up a better fight. Btw, for those saying they'd like to see Grigo get more involved after the whistles or push back, Roy was quoted this morning saying it was the game plan to not get involved after the whistles. So it's not Grigo's call.

domdo345 is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 09:27 AM
  #336
poetryinmotion
Registered User
 
poetryinmotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,087
vCash: 500
double post

poetryinmotion is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 09:28 AM
  #337
poetryinmotion
Registered User
 
poetryinmotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,087
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by domdo345 View Post
Going to see the big Russian center in Québec tonight, i hope Drummondville puts up a better fight. Btw, for those saying they'd like to see Grigo get more involved after the whistles or push back, Roy was quoted this morning saying it was the game plan to not get involved after the whistles. So it's not Grigo's call.
Okay that clears up a lot of things. Including why he didn't retaliate to several crosschecks he got after the whistle and seemed unphased. Some people thought that made him soft and not willing to compete.

poetryinmotion is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 09:32 AM
  #338
Halifaxhab*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Okay that clears up a lot of things. Including why he didn't retaliate to several crosschecks he got after the whistle and seemed unphased. Some people thought that made him soft and not willing to compete.
you can also look at it as he is trying to avoid penalty minutes to actually spend more time on the ice or even draw more penalties to get a few PPs.

just because a guy doesn't shove or face wash others after every whislte doesn't mean he's "soft"

Halifaxhab* is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 09:33 AM
  #339
domdo345
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,109
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Okay that clears up a lot of things. Including why he didn't retaliate to several crosschecks he got after the whistle and seemed unphased. Some people thought that made him soft and not willing to compete.
Yeah, playing hockey, i know for a fact that not pushing back is harder and retaliating. To some extent that shows he's disciplined and listen to the coach. No use of him spending a double minor in the penalty box, particularly in the playoffs.

domdo345 is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 09:42 AM
  #340
hogtownhabsfan*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by domdo345 View Post
Yeah, playing hockey, i know for a fact that not pushing back is harder and retaliating. To some extent that shows he's disciplined and listen to the coach. No use of him spending a double minor in the penalty box, particularly in the playoffs.
I'm a Grigo fan, but At 6'3" and 200lbs already, you'd like to see him stand up for himself. I'd just hate to see what Marchand did to Sedin in the finals last year...


hogtownhabsfan* is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 09:50 AM
  #341
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
Ours!
 
Marc the Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Longueuil
Country: Canada
Posts: 51,309
vCash: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
I love that Lukas Sutter 6'0 has "got size", but people complain about Yakupov's size at 5'11 1/2
But but but...he's a Sutter!!! A good old Canadian farm boy! He has to be big!

Marc the Habs Fan is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 09:53 AM
  #342
domdo345
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,109
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I'm a Grigo fan, but At 6'3" and 200lbs already, you'd like to see him stand up for himself. I'd just hate to see what Marchand did to Sedin in the finals last year...

His coach told him not to. During the season he was not shying away like he does now. I want to see him on the PP, not in the penalty box.

domdo345 is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 09:55 AM
  #343
poetryinmotion
Registered User
 
poetryinmotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,087
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by domdo345 View Post
His coach told him not to. During the season he was not shying away like he does now. I want to see him on the PP, not in the penalty box.
is this sarcasm?

poetryinmotion is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 09:59 AM
  #344
theboss*
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I'm a Grigo fan, but At 6'3" and 200lbs already, you'd like to see him stand up for himself. I'd just hate to see what Marchand did to Sedin in the finals last year...

That is why we surround him with toughness.

theboss* is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 10:41 AM
  #345
hogtownhabsfan*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by theboss View Post
That is why we surround him with toughness.
I just hope he can develop a little more mean streak ala Kovalchuk as a opposed to being a pure pushover ala Sedin.

We have some toughness coming up, but none that can play a top 6 role...

hogtownhabsfan* is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 10:45 AM
  #346
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by theboss View Post
That is why we surround him with toughness.
More like Bourque and Gionta because that is all we have.

Frozenice is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 10:45 AM
  #347
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Tough to answer accurately, but the gap isn't huge. I'd rather get the big ppg center we've always dreamed of rather than a winger though. Plus, not that I'm saying Yakupov is small but he isn't 6'3 and he plays a reckless style that could see him hurt more often than not in the long run whereas Grigorenko with his effective style can play until he is 40 and not be sidelined as much.

Yakupov gives me shades of a young Koivu. Obviously a much more skilled one but he might become damaged goods at some point.
Yakupov is the more talented player, who isn't afraid to drive the net, and who is more physical than Grigorenko despite the size. There is a reason he is a consensus number 1 in nearly every scouting service out there, in bob mcKenzie's ranks, in Craig Button's ranks, everywhere.

This is not Taylor vs Tyler where there as been a debate.

The debate is over... Grigorenko is more likely to lose the number 2 spot to someone else than he is to take over from Yakupov as Best Player available.

Beakermania* is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 10:54 AM
  #348
poetryinmotion
Registered User
 
poetryinmotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,087
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Yakupov is the more talented player, who isn't afraid to drive the net, and who is more physical than Grigorenko despite the size. There is a reason he is a consensus number 1 in nearly every scouting service out there, in bob mcKenzie's ranks, in Craig Button's ranks, everywhere.

This is not Taylor vs Tyler where there as been a debate.

The debate is over... Grigorenko is more likely to lose the number 2 spot to someone else than he is to take over from Yakupov as Best Player available.
There's no arguing what you just wrote at all.

But I don't think I'm wrong in doubting his ability to remain healthy over the span of a career. He is on the smallish side when you consider guys like Chara, Myers and our very own Tinordi, and they could hurt him. It doesn't even have to be them, the league is littered with punks like Kaleta. Heck, Markov got destroyed by Grabovski, and someone just fell on Koivu while his knee was bent... Grigorenko has a big frame, none of that would happen to him.

poetryinmotion is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 10:56 AM
  #349
theboss*
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
More like Bourque and Gionta because that is all we have.
Hopefully the new GM will fix this problem.

theboss* is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 11:03 AM
  #350
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
There's no arguing what you just wrote at all.

But I don't think I'm wrong in doubting his ability to remain healthy over the span of a career. He is on the smallish side when you consider guys like Chara, Myers and our very own Tinordi, and they could hurt him. It doesn't even have to be them, the league is littered with punks like Kaleta. Heck, Markov got destroyed by Grabovski, and someone just fell on Koivu while his knee was bent... Grigorenko has a big frame, none of that would happen to him.
Eric Lindros was injured by a much smaller Scott Stevens.
Keith Primeau was forced to retire due to concussions.
Jason Arnott got concussed in a celebration by Radulov
Brett Lindros was not small
Mario Lemieux had how many injuries (even before the cancer).
Chris Pronger is facing the end of his career due to injuries.
Cam Neely was not small (especially by 80s/early 90s standards).
Nathan Horton

And I could list many more players with big frames who had major injury issues despite that frame.

Its a risk with all players, even with Grigorenko's big frame, he could be hurt if he's in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Heck he's had his own ankle issues this year and shoulder issues as well.

Beakermania* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:07 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.