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A Look Ahead: 2012 NHL Entry Draft Pt. 2

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Old
03-30-2012, 03:26 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by ProfessorMcFatty View Post
I don't doubt that pretty much every hockey player has had a concussion at some point. Anytime you're seeing stars, that's technically a concussion.

I've had everything ranging from stars, to a few missing weeks. But its only the latter that are of any real concern. Those, however, are significantly more rare.
Well if that's the case, I've given myself multiple concussions over the past few months from coughing too hard.

We just dont know enough about how concussions actually manifest to know whats going on.

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03-30-2012, 03:35 PM
  #352
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I had a concussion along with other head injuries when I fell off a small cliff when I was 12. Two years later, I was skiing in Swiss Alps, it was a black diamond slope and I swerved to avoid another skier getting up. I probably hit some ice and fell into a ravine. It wasn't deep, otherwise I wouldn't be here, but I shattered my right knee, broke three ribs from right side and hit my head, which caused another concussion and a hair fracture to my skull, on top of my head, just above the left eyebrow. I was wearing a helmet.

From personal concussion experience I can say that... well, it's kind of like you're spacing out sometimes. Headaches will be an issue but they weren't that bad for me, but it felt like... I don't know, I felt really angry sometimes. Personality issues? I don't know. I had a short temper since I was a small kid but it got worse after that. It only lasted a couple of weeks or months though, not sure. But the thing is that head injuries should be noticeable, especially concussion. Look for a guy to be more frustrated than expected. I don't know if spacing out is part of it or not though, it might've been just me being a young teen back then.

But as Jarick said, they aren't on/off. They can be seemingly gone and then the symptoms may return. I remember getting violent headaches months, even over a year after it happened. Don't know if it was related or not, but I feel that it might explain some of those headaches and dizzy feelings I got back then.

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03-30-2012, 03:38 PM
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post
Well if that's the case, I've given myself multiple concussions over the past few months from coughing too hard.
Technically, violent enough coughing could cause concussions or similar injuries due to the sheer force the air is exiting your mouth.

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03-30-2012, 03:52 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by firstroundbust View Post
Brady Skjei is from Lakeville.
I very much like the fact that Americans with Norwegian heritage is getting inside the draftboard. This means more Norwegian names on the nameplates! LoL

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03-30-2012, 03:56 PM
  #355
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And btw. I think its kind of unfair that being north american makes it 10 times more likely to get drafted..

I mean come on.. how many of the ranked players below 3rd? Would make an impact getting 17 points in 30 games in ECHL?

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03-30-2012, 04:13 PM
  #356
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What I meant was that it's not like you either get a concussion or you don't.

Tap your arm. That's applying force, just a small amount. Now if you whack your arm really hard, you're going to create a bruise. Smash it harder, you fracture the bone. Smash it even harder, you can completely destroy it.

There's a gradient of force there (sorry for the gruesome analogy). Like concussions. There might be some that are so light you don't even notice. Look at the grading for them, if you have a Grade 1, you don't lose consciousnesses, you don't have any symptoms over 15 minutes, you don't black out, etc. That's literally "seeing stars" for a shift and then you get on the bench and get sorted out. Happens probably a number of times each year.

The problem is when you get the big concussion, the grade 2 and 3, where you have symptoms that last for weeks or months. Symptoms are the result of your brain's injury, they aren't the injury itself. When the symptoms go away, you aren't fully healed. It might takes weeks, months, even years to fully heal. That's why often a guy gets back from concussion and doesn't look as good until the next year.

When you aren't fully healed, even if you're symptom free, you're far more susceptible to additional concussions. What would have been a simple grade 1 is a 2 or 3 again and you have symptoms. It's aggravating an existing injury, just like you would with a sprain.

The other issue is multiple small concussions over time. We don't really understand if you get say half a dozen little Grade 1 concussions that don't produce any lasting symptoms, does that make you more susceptible to future concussions, or does it cause permanent injuries? But that's not really what we're talking about.

I guess my point is, yes, pro hockey players probably do have multiple concussions a year (technically), but unless they are severe concussions that cause lasting symptoms of say more than a couple weeks, I wouldn't be too concerned with that player.

But a guy who misses half a season or more with a concussion is going to be in my opinion more likely to suffer another concussion within a year or two, and that would hurt my draft rankings a lot more than, say a ligament tear where you get surgery and repaired and it's for all intents and purposes 100% healed.

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03-30-2012, 04:15 PM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SphinX View Post
And btw. I think its kind of unfair that being north american makes it 10 times more likely to get drafted..

I mean come on.. how many of the ranked players below 3rd? Would make an impact getting 17 points in 30 games in ECHL?
It is a North American league and teams can get more eyes on the player with scouting.

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03-30-2012, 04:19 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
It is a North American league and teams can get more eyes on the player with scouting.
That is both logical and true. But many high class prospects ends up being just that because they never get the oppertunity to develop under well run organizations with many years of experience..

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03-30-2012, 04:21 PM
  #359
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Well that's why more scouts are in Europe now than ever.

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03-30-2012, 04:24 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SphinX View Post
And btw. I think its kind of unfair that being north american makes it 10 times more likely to get drafted..

I mean come on.. how many of the ranked players below 3rd? Would make an impact getting 17 points in 30 games in ECHL?
for one the north american development specifically the canadian route produce the best nhl talent and most of it. There isn't exactly a mass of guys in europe that could outplay nhlers right now. That being said, guys don't want to leave their country just to be a 800-1m a year grinder.

When scouts see a talent in another country they will draft him, but there isn't some surplus of talent that was passed over by the NHL teams making it seem there is a huge bias.

Also there aren't exactly a lot of spots open per year unless you are the Minnesota Wild.

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03-30-2012, 04:57 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
for one the north american development specifically the canadian route produce the best nhl talent and most of it.
Malkin?
Kovalchuk?
Hossa?
karlsson?
sedins?
gaborik?
eriksson?
kopitar?
zetterberg?
selanne?
datsyuk?
ovechkin?
alfredsson?
lundqvist?

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03-30-2012, 05:55 PM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SphinX View Post
Malkin?
Kovalchuk?
Hossa?
karlsson?
sedins?
gaborik?
eriksson?
kopitar?
zetterberg?
selanne?
datsyuk?
ovechkin?
alfredsson?
lundqvist?
Come on.

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03-30-2012, 06:32 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by SphinX View Post
Malkin?
Kovalchuk?
Hossa?
karlsson?
sedins?
gaborik?
eriksson?
kopitar?
zetterberg?
selanne?
datsyuk?
ovechkin?
alfredsson?
lundqvist?
bobby orr
wayne gretzky
mario lameux

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03-30-2012, 06:37 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by SphinX View Post
Malkin? #2 overall behind ovie
Kovalchuk? #1 overall
Hossa? #12 overall
karlsson? #15 overall
sedins? #2,#3 overall
gaborik? #2 overall
eriksson? #17(?) overall
kopitar? #12 overall
zetterberg?
selanne? #10 overall
datsyuk?
ovechkin? #1 overall
alfredsson?
lundqvist?
the other 4, goalies go late, alfie was drafted before europe was as heavily scouted, the other two are just plain annomalies.

to my whole point which said that "if there is talent it will be drafted" you proved it minus 4 guys so yes my point stands.


Last edited by forthewild: 03-30-2012 at 06:45 PM.
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03-30-2012, 06:50 PM
  #365
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For MN high school players I saw a midseason list with Besse projected 4th round and that was before he went on his incredible run from January on, I would assume he has moved up a bit and wouldn't be that surprised if he goes mid 3rd or even as early as late 2nd. Toninato may have dropped a bit and I would guess 4th or 5th round, although I don't doubt that a few teams might take a flyer on him. Haven't seen the SSM guys so can't say much about them. I haven't seen Kloos on any list but he might be worth a 7th, personally not a fan though.

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03-30-2012, 08:29 PM
  #366
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I would not complain at all if we took Besse or Kloos in the 3rd round. I think Besse has the skill to be an NHLer, his concern is his size, but he does have the speed to compensate for that. I would love for MN to draft Besse and send him to WHL (development and keeping him away from the badgers)

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03-30-2012, 08:55 PM
  #367
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our staff gets to see MN HS kids so I don't think it's too far fetched to think they'll grab someone they saw potential in that other organizations would have missed.

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03-30-2012, 10:19 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
I would not complain at all if we took Besse or Kloos in the 3rd round. I think Besse has the skill to be an NHLer, his concern is his size, but he does have the speed to compensate for that. I would love for MN to draft Besse and send him to WHL (development and keeping him away from the badgers)
Kloos has the better all around game and think he will go in the 2nd, still think Besse is late 3rd at best even after his run.

Then again, I'm no NHL scout and could be completely off base.

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03-30-2012, 10:23 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by Avder View Post
Well if that's the case, I've given myself multiple concussions over the past few months from coughing too hard.

We just dont know enough about how concussions actually manifest to know whats going on.
* Thinking and remembering
o Not thinking clearly
o Feeling slowed down
o Not being able to concentrate
o Not being able to remember new information
* Physical
o Headache
o Fuzzy or blurry vision
o Nausea and vomiting
o Dizziness
o Sensitivity to light or noise
o Balance problems
o Feeling tired or having no energy
* Emotional and mood
o Easily upset or angered
o Sad
o Nervous or anxious
o More emotional
* Sleep
o Sleeping more than usual
o Sleeping less than usual
o Having a hard time falling asleep

If you've had any of these major symptoms afterwards then yeah you did get one, but I've never heard of someone getting a concussion from a cough. I've had two or at least one major one with PCS. Fun times.

Anyways back to the original thread. The tank is on!

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03-30-2012, 11:13 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
our staff gets to see MN HS kids so I don't think it's too far fetched to think they'll grab someone they saw potential in that other organizations would have missed.
I stood next to Brian Hunter tonight at Wakota for a handful of games of the Great 8 tournament.


That being said, nearly every team has a Minnesota-based scout.

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03-30-2012, 11:16 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
Kloos has the better all around game and think he will go in the 2nd, still think Besse is late 3rd at best even after his run.

Then again, I'm no NHL scout and could be completely off base.


I'm hardly a scout, but ya, you're way off base.

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03-30-2012, 11:17 PM
  #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShutDownDefense View Post
* Thinking and remembering
o Not thinking clearly
o Feeling slowed down
o Not being able to concentrate
o Not being able to remember new information
* Physical
o Headache
o Fuzzy or blurry vision
o Nausea and vomiting
o Dizziness
o Sensitivity to light or noise
o Balance problems
o Feeling tired or having no energy
* Emotional and mood
o Easily upset or angered
o Sad
o Nervous or anxious
o More emotional
* Sleep
o Sleeping more than usual
o Sleeping less than usual
o Having a hard time falling asleep

We talking concussions or just heavy alcohol/marijuana use?

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03-31-2012, 02:56 AM
  #373
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Originally Posted by firstroundbust View Post
We talking concussions or just heavy alcohol/marijuana use?
Wow I feel sorry for potheads then. If that's permanent, eeesh. Some of the worst times of my life and people want to do that **** to themselves, yeah no thanks.

Anyways back to the thread.


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Old
03-31-2012, 03:03 AM
  #374
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
I would not complain at all if we took Besse or Kloos in the 3rd round. I think Besse has the skill to be an NHLer, his concern is his size, but he does have the speed to compensate for that. I would love for MN to draft Besse and send him to WHL (development and keeping him away from the badgers)
5 11 as a Junior in high school isn't that much of a concern, I think the biggest question most NHL teams will have is on his ability to score against good players, something that has led to many MN high school players falling in the draft. While I am heavily biased in this regard I believe that Besse does have the natural hockey sense and ability to become a strong professional player, while his stats are fantastic, seeing him in person is really when you understand how dangerous he can be. I grew up watching and playing with guys like the Rau's, Nick Leddy and Danny Kristo, all excellent players that I have watched develop, but Besse to me is on a very similar level or above them. Leddy was the best skater I had seen at the junior level, winning inter-nation skills competitions with the best canadian and midwest players, but Besse is just as good if not better from what I have seen and he has the offensive instincts to boot, my personal pick for sleeper of the draft. Could his tremendous development over the past few years be an aberration and fizzle out? Yes, that is why he isn't considered a sought after prospect but this is an organization with forward depth currently, taking a chance in the mid rounds on a booming forward prospect with potential for elite scoring would be a rather prudent move IMO, then again we also need D.

I have not seen enough Kloos, but as I mentioned earlier, the biggest knock on most Minnesotans is the quality of competition and for me that would be the reason why he goes undrafted, or at least very late. He has the physical tools to succeed at high school, but nothing about his game to me shows any exceptional skills that would earn him a spot on an NHL roster. At the same time I think his play at his current level was phenomenal and there are always guys who will be dedicated enough to push themselves to the next level, just in my opinion, those types of players are far riskier and thus more unappealing when it comes to draft time. If Kloos develops well, he could be a top tier college FA IMO, but there is also plenty of bust potential as well, a risky proposition in a league where no GM or scouting department is safe for long.

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03-31-2012, 07:39 AM
  #375
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Originally Posted by Ovechkid08 View Post
5 11 as a Junior in high school isn't that much of a concern, I think the biggest question most NHL teams will have is on his ability to score against good players, something that has led to many MN high school players falling in the draft. While I am heavily biased in this regard I believe that Besse does have the natural hockey sense and ability to become a strong professional player, while his stats are fantastic, seeing him in person is really when you understand how dangerous he can be. I grew up watching and playing with guys like the Rau's, Nick Leddy and Danny Kristo, all excellent players that I have watched develop, but Besse to me is on a very similar level or above them. Leddy was the best skater I had seen at the junior level, winning inter-nation skills competitions with the best canadian and midwest players, but Besse is just as good if not better from what I have seen and he has the offensive instincts to boot, my personal pick for sleeper of the draft. Could his tremendous development over the past few years be an aberration and fizzle out? Yes, that is why he isn't considered a sought after prospect but this is an organization with forward depth currently, taking a chance in the mid rounds on a booming forward prospect with potential for elite scoring would be a rather prudent move IMO, then again we also need D.

I have not seen enough Kloos, but as I mentioned earlier, the biggest knock on most Minnesotans is the quality of competition and for me that would be the reason why he goes undrafted, or at least very late. He has the physical tools to succeed at high school, but nothing about his game to me shows any exceptional skills that would earn him a spot on an NHL roster. At the same time I think his play at his current level was phenomenal and there are always guys who will be dedicated enough to push themselves to the next level, just in my opinion, those types of players are far riskier and thus more unappealing when it comes to draft time. If Kloos develops well, he could be a top tier college FA IMO, but there is also plenty of bust potential as well, a risky proposition in a league where no GM or scouting department is safe for long.
i think both kloos and besse get drafted by 7th, they both have the skill. I agree with you tho that Besse could be a real sleeper.

Minnesota should get a WHL team, it would be nice to see how these kids do playing there.

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