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A Look Ahead: 2012 NHL Entry Draft Pt. 2

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03-28-2012, 07:53 PM
  #201
Dr Jan Itor
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Throwing **** against the wall...

Trade #2 + Clutterbuck to Toronto for Gardiner + Toronto's 1st
Draft Trouba/Rielly
Sign Justin Schutlz

Bam. Defense fixed.

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03-28-2012, 07:53 PM
  #202
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ya but thats why i suggested we trade to a team that is desperate for our possible 2nd overall pick that is still in the top 10, we could trade our pick for their top defensive prospect and their first rounder, then use that to draft reinhart, you end up with essentially two first round defensemen, seems like the most logical thing to do in my opinion, it might be hard to find a team but its possible for a team thats desperate for a top forward
That actually sounds like an option that might be worth considering, but I still want a goal scoring forward more than I want a defenseman.

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03-28-2012, 07:55 PM
  #203
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I suppose it depends on how things go next year, but the team next year will not have the "no depth" get out of the doghouse free card it does this year.
I suppose, but the way I see it, you'd still be firing them for the shortcomings of 4-8 years ago. Now, if these last 3 draft classes start to appear to be crapping out, then you'd have some grounds for dismissal (for the GM at least).

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03-28-2012, 08:05 PM
  #204
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i wouldn't think a team would be willing to give up both a first and their top defensive prospect to move up from a top 10 pick to a top 3 pick unless that D prospect had something wrong with him, in which case I'd rather just take a 2nd and pick my own. I'm pretty sure we wouldn't give up Brodin and an 8th pick to move up to 3rd overall for instance.

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03-28-2012, 08:07 PM
  #205
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That actually sounds like an option that might be worth considering, but I still want a goal scoring forward more than I want a defenseman.
ya thats true but my proposal was basically based off the possibility of parise signing here, if the wild are confident they can get parise, probably just overpay him and be like, you can sign here, we'll pay you whatever you want and you'll eventually be the greatest Minnesota hockey legend ever and we are basically a playoff team "IF" were healthy, which i truly believe, but if the wild are not sure about going all in on parise then id go with a forward in the draft

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03-28-2012, 08:08 PM
  #206
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I think this team either makes the playoffs next year or both Fletch and Yeo could lose their jobs.

Their jobs are safe. It took three years just to get this franchise back to even ground, so firing them doesn't make sense.

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03-28-2012, 08:13 PM
  #207
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Their jobs are safe. It took three years just to get this franchise back to even ground, so firing them doesn't make sense.
I think Avder's right, though. It doesn't necessarily make sense to fire them, but after a fifth straight playoff-less season even the most logical owner will start to get an itchy trigger finger.

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03-28-2012, 08:15 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Throwing **** against the wall...

Trade #2 + Clutterbuck to Toronto for Gardiner + Toronto's 1st
Draft Trouba/Rielly
Sign Justin Schutlz

Bam. Defense fixed.
Toronto's hasn't got many untouchables but Gardiner is one of them. You'd have better luck with Schenn.

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03-28-2012, 08:17 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
I suppose, but the way I see it, you'd still be firing them for the shortcomings of 4-8 years ago. Now, if these last 3 draft classes start to appear to be crapping out, then you'd have some grounds for dismissal (for the GM at least).
Well the issue I have with Yeo at the moment is he completely lost control of the team. I could accept a team with no talent that shows up every night and still loses valiantly, but so many of the Wild's losses have been effortless mail-in efforts that as the season nears its end I am starting to develop serious reservations about his ability to motivate players. The players should not have even needed motivation when the collapse started: They were in first place overall, a generous lead on the Nucks in the division, and riding high on the strength of a 7 game winning streak.

When Lats and Butch and Koivu went down, yeah I can see the team mailing a few games in. But even a few games later they are still tops in everything, so where is the damned heart and the will to survive that any other team in that position would have had? Lack of talent is no excuse for not even trying and that is what ticked me off enough to write my rant after the Eddy Xmas Disaster.

We saw glimpses of the old Wild during the streak where they would win a game or two here and there and look like they were finally turning it around, and even a few losses like last night where they fought to the end, so it's not as if the team is not capable of putting in a hard days work at the office. That's what is so damned infuriating with this team: they don't ****ing care half the time.

At least some of that has to be on the coach, in my mind. Yeah, Yeo's system kicks ass and it rips teams to shreds when it is being played religiously, but does Yeo have the ability to get a team to follow the system through thick and thin? That is what the biggest question surrounding Yeo is going to be going into next season and unfortunately if this team is still running around aimless when it has just received a serious infusion of young talent, untainted by the Wild's prevalent atmosphere of not giving a ****, then the only recourse left will be to declare Yeo a coach who is not yet ready to be a head coach because he is unable to get the players off their ***** and get to work.

If that is the case, then THAT failure will come back to Fletcher as well, because he was the one who decided to go with a rookie twice in a row, and twice in a row it will have failed him. And while I can excuse the second failure because of how absolutely awesome Yeo looked to everyone at the start of the year and part way into it, and how awesome his drafting has been (to this point, we will see how things look next year), ownership may not be able to stomach a 5th year without the playoffs. This is especially true if attendance keeps slipping like I think it would if we continue to suck next year, and revenues continue to decline. At some point even the most patient owners give up and say "you had your chance and you blew it", and I see that as a possibility if next year is a failure of a year like this year.

Yes I am aware that Fletcher has sold ownership on his long term plan. Yes I am aware of how patient ownership is. But like I said, at some point things just reach a breaking point and unless we see at the very least the beginnings of a real solid turnaround next year, heads may roll before the 2013 draft.

Those are my concerns in a nut shell.

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03-28-2012, 08:24 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
I think Avder's right, though. It doesn't necessarily make sense to fire them, but after a fifth straight playoff-less season even the most logical owner will start to get an itchy trigger finger.

ya, it would be 5 straight seasons- but, Leipold would have to have known that Fletcher looked at what he had and then where he wanted the organization to be and told him it would take time, and that missing the playoffs for a few seasons would be likely.

Missing the playoffs for a few seasons is digestible when the gameplan calls for a formula that creates prolonged success and perennial playoff appearances.

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03-28-2012, 08:25 PM
  #211
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It's funny to think back to the whole "Church of Yeo" part of the season and now to see people questioning whether he makes it out of next year. Sometimes talent just wins out; we weren't even close to the most talented team during our time at the top, so the injuries had an expected affect. Same thing happened to Colorado last year, it happens to teams most years (not to the extent that we saw this year, but still). Are we really going to hire a coach every two years? How can you even evaluate them in that amount time? For better or worse, I think we need to see this regime through. Personally, I think they are on the path to turning it around, so that's where I'm coming from.

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Old
03-28-2012, 08:27 PM
  #212
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I need some help from some of the Finns on here, but I've heard good things about Teuvo Teravainen. Could surprise and go higher than some thought.

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03-28-2012, 08:37 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstroundbust View Post
I need some help from some of the Finns on here, but I've heard good things about Teuvo Teravainen. Could surprise and go higher than some thought.
He has a good shot, a natural scorer. He is quite a dangler though. I don't know... young Ville Leino maybe? He has a bigger upside though. I must say that I haven't followed him much though.

Here's some of his highlights from this season, boy, he's going to hurt himself jumping those boards one day



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03-28-2012, 08:43 PM
  #214
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Slightly inferior version of Mikael Granlund. I doubt he gets drafted in the top 10. If I was GMCF, I would go with the big center Grigorenko. Just keep Granlund at the wing.

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03-28-2012, 09:06 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
I think Avder's right, though. It doesn't necessarily make sense to fire them, but after a fifth straight playoff-less season even the most logical owner will start to get an itchy trigger finger.
I think if Fletcher and Yeo aren't going to have a playoff team next year, they need to sell the fans and Leipold that things are moving in the right direction. Another season where the Wild end up in the lottery with a poor second half isn't acceptable.

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03-28-2012, 09:29 PM
  #216
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nope, there has to be improvement in the on-ice product. it would help if that improvement came later in the season rather than what happened this year...But it would really suck and be completely unfair if another GM stepped in and had massive success with the team Chuck assembled and got all the credit for it. I would hate that. A lot.

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03-28-2012, 09:32 PM
  #217
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nope, there has to be improvement in the on-ice product. it would help if that improvement came later in the season rather than what happened this year...But it would really suck and be completely unfair if another GM stepped in and had massive success with the team Chuck assembled and got all the credit for it. I would hate that. A lot.
A la Gruden in Tampa Bay, taking over Tony Dungy's team.

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03-28-2012, 09:41 PM
  #218
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03-28-2012, 10:47 PM
  #219
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I think this team either makes the playoffs next year or both Fletch and Yeo could lose their jobs.
If that happens I have a huge problem with Leipold's thinking. Because to me after next year, barring another total mess like this year, it would be the worst time to clean house. Either you do it now, before the influx of the prospects, or you do it later, to give them time to finish the job. If you do it now, which I would do if I were the owner, you get new faces in here with a completely clean slate to work with. You've hit rock bottom, so get someone in here that doesn't have any past successes or failures to influence the decisions to go from worst to first. In other words, you don't have a GM hanging onto players just for the chance that they pan out and make the investment look worthwhile. Just one more year doesn't make much sense at this point.

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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
nope, there has to be improvement in the on-ice product. it would help if that improvement came later in the season rather than what happened this year...But it would really suck and be completely unfair if another GM stepped in and had massive success with the team Chuck assembled and got all the credit for it. I would hate that. A lot.
If wouldn't be unfair at all. You have to remember, these prospects aren't Chuck's. They're his staff's. Do you think it's fair that the Fletcher regime gets credit for the 2009 draft, one that Tommy Thompson and crew from the old regime assembled? In fact it's the only Fletcher draft that's actually paying dividends in the league that counts (NHL). Plus, considering the draft position, it may the best of past three. Yet you don't here about who drafted them. So who cares about fair. Fletcher has struggled at the job that he directs (Wild moves). If another guy comes in and gets credit, he probably will deserve it. There's so much more to building a good team than having good prospects come up through the system.

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03-28-2012, 10:58 PM
  #220
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I think if Fletcher and Yeo aren't going to have a playoff team next year, they need to sell the fans and Leipold that things are moving in the right direction. Another season where the Wild end up in the lottery with a poor second half isn't acceptable.
Is there any way to sell fans on five years of no playoffs in a league where more than half of the teams make it? I actually like Fletcher and his moves for the most part, but seriously at some point you have to have some standards.

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03-28-2012, 11:03 PM
  #221
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I agree that it would be totally unfair to fire Fletcher if we fail next year, but I think it could easily happen.

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03-28-2012, 11:05 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Throwing **** against the wall...

Trade #2 + Clutterbuck to Toronto for Gardiner + Toronto's 1st
Draft Trouba/Rielly
Sign Justin Schutlz

Bam. Defense fixed.
jeez... as much as i love clutterbuck, id have to do this deal. too bad burke wouldnt go for it. but gardiner would be awsome, a Minnesota boy could aslo go after faulk in carolina

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03-28-2012, 11:08 PM
  #223
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If wouldn't be unfair at all. You have to remember, these prospects aren't Chuck's. They're his staff's. Do you think it's fair that the Fletcher regime gets credit for the 2009 draft, one that Tommy Thompson and crew from the old regime assembled? In fact it's the only Fletcher draft that's actually paying dividends in the league that counts (NHL). Plus, considering the draft position, it may the best of past three. Yet you don't here about who drafted them. So who cares about fair. Fletcher has struggled at the job that he directs (Wild moves). If another guy comes in and gets credit, he probably will deserve it. There's so much more to building a good team than having good prospects come up through the system.
This is so incredibly short-sighted. Anybody will tell you, you can't evaluate a draft class for at least 3 years. We now know for sure that 2004-2007 sucked, would you like to take a guess at who was running those drafts? In fact, it was one of Fletcher's moves that almost salvaged (and still might) one of the old regime's biggest blunders.

And as far as 2009 goes, didn't they have to trade down, in order to recoup those picks and get those players (Hackett and Haula) because the old regime traded them away? Other than that, the only one in the NHL right now is Leddy, a defenseman on a team that is in the bottom 1/3 of goals allowed (not that he's the cause or he won't get better), but man, talk about selective reasoning.


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Old
03-28-2012, 11:12 PM
  #224
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Is there any way to sell fans on five years of no playoffs in a league where more than half of the teams make it? I actually like Fletcher and his moves for the most part, but seriously at some point you have to have some standards.

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03-28-2012, 11:13 PM
  #225
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I agree that it would be totally unfair to fire Fletcher if we fail next year, but I think it could easily happen.
Then how many years does the next GM get? And how do we base his success and competency? If he ends up actually bringing in players that help us improve, then great I guess, but if he doesn't, and all of (or most of) GMCF's draftees turn out to be good players and help us get better, do we really know anything about the new GM? It just seems weird to me.

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