Doesn't a franchise player make every one around him better? Kessel is a talent, but franchise?
Kessel does make his wingers better, but, he is not Franchise. A star, yes, but, not franchise. ...that is a tag that is used far too often, because there are only 5-6 in the league.
Kessel is one of the worst defensive players in the league. Franchise players don't need to be great defensively, but I would at least have them be mediocre. I believe the stat I saw the other day was that Kessel has the 3rd worst 5 on 5 goals against stat in the league.
Is there a before and after stats before the Leafs had the collapse.
A franchise player is more then stats. Its character and leadership which someone like Crosby and Toews possessed at a young age but Kessel does not.
Franchise players give memorable performances when the spotlight is on them. They are driven to be the best at all times. Never seen kessel step up when an important game was played this year. Hopefully for his career sakes he will step it up with a new franchise once he is packaged out of here for Rick Nash
Is there a before and after stats before the Leafs had the collapse.
Not that I know of. It's theoretically possible for me to generate it but I don't feel like parsing through 900 game logs. I'm sure NHL.com is already thinking about blocking my IP for some of the other programs I run against their servers.
Stamkos is leading his team to a lower placed finish then we are presently, should we take back his franchise sticker?
This is such a simple way to look at it. And Tampa is ahead of us in the standings, and I guarantee they finish above us.
As of right now, Stamkos is the future captain of the Lightning, the same can't be said of Kessel. Stamkos has 14 more goals then Kessel, a much better two way player then Kessel and Stamkos can handle the media.
In my previous posts I made it seem like only players that make the playoffs are franchise players, but there are exceptions and Kessel isn't one of them, because the only thing he brings is points. He's awful with the media, not a team leader and hasn't ONCE brought us to the playoffs.
This is such a simple way to look at it. And Tampa is ahead of us in the standings, and I guarantee they finish above us.
As of right now, Stamkos is the future captain of the Lightning, the same can't be said of Kessel. Stamkos has 14 more goals then Kessel, a much better two way player then Kessel and Stamkos can handle the media.
In my previous posts I made it seem like only players that make the playoffs are franchise players, but there are exceptions and Kessel isn't one of them, because the only thing he brings is points. He's awful with the media, not a team leader and hasn't ONCE brought us to the playoffs.
Stamkos also has more career goals than Kessel, and Kessel has played 2 more seasons.
If Stamkos keeps scoring like he is he'll have 240 career goals in the same time that Kessel currently has 164.
This is such a simple way to look at it. And Tampa is ahead of us in the standings, and I guarantee they finish above us.
As of right now, Stamkos is the future captain of the Lightning, the same can't be said of Kessel. Stamkos has 14 more goals then Kessel, a much better two way player then Kessel and Stamkos can handle the media.
In my previous posts I made it seem like only players that make the playoffs are franchise players, but there are exceptions and Kessel isn't one of them, because the only thing he brings is points. He's awful with the media, not a team leader and hasn't ONCE brought us to the playoffs.
Stamkos isn't leading Tampa to the playoffs by himself and neither can Kessel because it's a team game. Yet Stamkos is considered a franchise player, quite the double standard you have there.
Stamkos isn't leading Tampa to the playoffs by himself and neither can Kessel because it's a team game. Yet Stamkos is considered a franchise player, quite the double standard you have there.
I've said this before, to be a franchise player you need the help from players around you, right now Kessel doesn't have that. You can say Kessel is a potential franchise player, but he isn't one now.
I've said this before, to be a franchise player you need the help from players around you, right now Kessel doesn't have that. You can say Kessel is a potential franchise player, but he isn't one now.
Kessel is top 5 in the entire world right now production wise with Bozak as his center. Food for thought.
Kessel is not a franchise player. He's a very good complementary player. Why do people only focus on goals and points? It's like people look at the stats sheet and proclaim who is and who is not a franchise player.
Can Kessel be the best player on a contending team? I don't think so. That's not a slight against Kessel in any way, it's just being realistic. There are very few franchise players in the league.
What's also funny is how Kessel has never taken us to the playoffs doesn't have ANY letter on his jersey and when he talks to the media, controversy is started because he can't talk to them.
It's not all about stats.
We can tell a student that getting into college isnt all about grades.
We can tell our employee that being valued by the company isn't all about salary.
We can tell Curtis Joseph that getting into the hall of fame isn't all about how many cups you won.
I agree with this list of Franchise players. However in defense of Kessel (I'm not sold he's Franchise....YET). If D Sedin and Kessel swapped teams and positions, Kessel plays with Sedin and Burrows and Sedin plays with Bozak and Lupul does Kessel get the Franchise tag and Sedin not? I think he would produce more then what he currently works with. How would people view him playing with higher end talen?
That's interesting, keep telling me about points, nothing else...
You pointed to Stamkos' back to back 50 goal seasons, he's not leading his team to the playoffs and he has a much better surrounding cast but you used his stats in your argument correct?
Toews (supporting cast: Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Keith, Seabrook)
Datsyuk (Lidstrom(also a franchise/generational player), Zetterberg, Holmstrom,Kronwall)
Weber (suter, radulov, rinne)
Iginla (still fighting for that playoff spot, tanguay, kipper, jokinen, bouwmeester, glencross)
D.Sedin (sedin, kesler, bieksa, loungo, malhotra(i hate him))
H.Sedin (same as above)
Perry (him before getzlaf is pretty farfetched to me, ryan, fowler, selanne, koivu)
Ovechkin (still fighting for a playoff spot, backstrom, semin, green(not good defensive), alzner & carlson, and an upcoming orlov)
Stamkos (still fighting for a playoff spot, st. louis, lecavalier, hedman)
Price (....they are below us in the standing and he is surrounded by maxi-pad and a very talented gionta and cole)
Lundqvist (staal, mdz, gilroy, callahan, richards, gaborik, dubinsky, sauer)
Chara (bergeron, krecji, seguin, seidenberg, thomas & rask, horton and many more)
Crosby (malkin, m.a fleury, staal, neal, orpik, michalek, letang)
Malkin (look above)
Giroux(JVR, pronger, timonen, kubina, hartnell, couturier, jagr, talbot, Bryzgalov & Bobrovsky)
Kessel's supporting cast member (lupul, tyler bozak, dion phaneuf, luke schenn and jake gardiner)
compare those and then kessel.
Malkin has 95 points with that much depth in his team and he's a work horse.
Giroux has how much talented wingers not to mention able to protect him from crap and he is at 85 points. A guy who can finish for goals.
Stamkos has 50 goals and at 84 points, and has a HHOFer in st.louis, without a doubt one of the best playmaking wingers in the game and he is still fighting for that playoff spot.
Igilna is still fighting for that playoff spot.
What about joe thornton? why is he not included in that list? he is also fighting for a playoff spot.
Ryan miller as well is a franchise player, not to mention a former vezine trophy winner, but he is also fighting for the playoffs.
Corry Perry has more of a talented group than us why is he not able to bring his team into the playoffs right now being that franchise player?
A clock or a team doesn't run with one gear. It runs by many, kessel has without a doubt made his teammates around him better but because this team isn't making the playoffs isn't his fault. It's collectively the entire teams fault.
We can tell a student that getting into college isnt all about grades.
We can tell our employee that being valued by the company isn't all about salary.
We can tell Curtis Joseph that getting into the hall of fame isn't all about how many cups you won.
But let's be real. Stats are important here.
So every person who gets good grades becomes one of the world's greatest minds?
So every employee valued by the company is a CEO?
Curtis Joseph 4th all time in wins... Phil Kessel 4th all time in goals...
One of these statements is true, guess which one?
Franchise player is comparable to being one of the greatest at what you do. Just because you're valued by you're company or get good grades doesn't make you one of the best in the world.
Kessel will never be a defensive specialist, but that's not his role. He backchecks, at times makes some very good defensive plays, and is far from a defensive liabilty.
I thnk a commentator once called him "one dimensional" in his first year here and people who can't make their own opinions hold on to that like it's going out of style. He's worked on is defensive game, and it's come a long, long way.
I'm not sayng he's a Franchise player - but he's definately one of the Leagues Elite (yes, I said it) young players.
A guy that keeps popping up in my head when I think of Kessel is Heatley. Supremely talented wingers, gift to score goals, have had seasons near the top in the scoring race, etc.
I wouldn't classify either as franchise players though. That's not a knock against them. I just view them more as excellent sidekicks as opposed to "the man".
Yikes... A franchise player that can't lead his team in the playoffs is no franchise player in a world of mine.
And yet....millions of Leafs fans are screaming TRADE FOR RICK NASH!!!! This would be the same Rick Nash who has LEAD his team to all of ONE playoff series' in 8 friggin' years. I don't care if Nash wears the "C", if he is labeled a franchise player, than i think Kessel with a better point average, better +/- and actually more playoff experience (albeit in Boston) should be labeled the same.
He's worked on is defensive game, and it's come a long, long way. 
