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Who Would Support a Full Rebuild?

View Poll Results: Would You Support a full Rebuild?
Yes Future Stars for the Leafs 103 52.28%
No Playoffs ASAP 47 23.86%
I don't care anymore 47 23.86%
Voters: 197. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-24-2012, 01:44 PM
  #26
ULF_55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crump View Post
I don't think I would do that unless I could guarantee a #1 pick and that it was for a close to generational talent like Crosby, Malkin, (Lindros or the original Forsberg in their day). You don't hear a lot of talk about a player coming in 3-4 years like we heard with Crosby and Tavares. You had fans of Playoff teams hoping to tank for them.
The trouble is we hear about the guys so early here because they are here.

We don't often hear news about some 15 year old Russian ...

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03-24-2012, 01:48 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
First, we have been rebuilding for 3 years now, and all everybody does is complain, so the answer is no, this fan base cannot support a rebuild.
I think if you go on the Bruins,Penguins,Canucks etc. boards you will see lots of complaining so I don't understand that the connection that people complaining here means they won't support a rebuild. This has been one strange sort of rebuild though. Just when you think there seems to be a direction to it, then it completely changes. The absolute ridiculous stubbornness of keeping Wilson as the coach when Burke has admitted that they didn't agree on the type of team they wanted to ice is a prime example.

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03-24-2012, 02:02 PM
  #28
Tommy Torini
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I was ready when Burke first came in, and I'm sure others were as well. Then he went and traded our next two firsts for Kessel.

Fast forward 3 years later, and the Leafs still haven't made the playoffs. I think it's unfair to criticize the fanbase for being impatient. 3 years ago we were ready for a "traditional" rebuild, and Burke basically said "to hell with that" and tossed the idea of tanking out the window with the idea of excellerating the rebuild. Sad story is we did tank, and all we had to show for it was Phil Kessel. Burke completely failed and we're basically back to square one of this whole mess, overpaid players not performing (Tucker, McCabe, Blake and Kubina to Phaneuf, Connolly, Lambo, Komi and Army) and bad goaltending. Burke has given us an elite player though in Kessel, maybe two if Lupul isn't a fluke, and improved our overall prospect pool and farm system. The on ice product however, leaves much to be desired.

I'm not complaining about Kessel at all or blaming him (he is a great player, and I like that he's on the team), but I believe the Leafs would've been better off with Seguin et all instead of just Kessel.

I'm hoping next year we can pull what Jersey and Ottawa did this year, and Philly a few years ago. Draft high and come back next year reloaded with a talented player from the draft, a new coach and style, and make the playoffs.

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03-24-2012, 02:04 PM
  #29
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Tank this year. Anything short of the playoffs next year is unacceptable.

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Old
03-24-2012, 02:07 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
First, we have been rebuilding for 3 years now, and all everybody does is complain, so the answer is no, this fan base cannot support a rebuild.
I have to agree, I can't see this fan base accepting a rebuild. Places like Edmonton bought into a rebuild and understand what they are doing. I can't see the fans in Toronto have the patience or the understanding of a rebuild process.

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Old
03-24-2012, 02:25 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Ill conform to your scenario.

Lupul - Forsberg/Gal/Grigs - Kessel
Kadri - Grabovski - MacArthur/FA signing
Frattin - Bozak - Kulemin
Brown - Steckel - Rosehill

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Schenn
Franson - Holzer

Reimer
?????

Almost identical to what we already have..... dropped LACK + Liles. Grabo, Phaneuf and Lupul are our "Vets" who are all 28 and under.
Looks about right. Except Galchenyuk will 100% need another year in the OHL. I'd also look into trading Mac in the summer and let Ashton have his spot if we were to actually go the "full rebuild" route.

At this point I'd be fine with Burke either cleansing the overpaid LACK and making some tweeks via trade and reasonable signings for a goalie and another top 6 forward(if this was a case a quality veteran goalie or trade for a younger guy like Halak or Lindback is a must) OR hypothetically tearing it down and going full youth movement to gain a lottery pick next year again and watch our prospects and young guys come along together.

The only thing I do not want to see is completely stripping the cubbords and trading this years first for a guy like Nash in a desperate move to scrape into the 7th or 8th seed next year and ruin our cap situation for years.

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Old
03-24-2012, 02:28 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrock View Post
I have to agree, I can't see this fan base accepting a rebuild. Places like Edmonton bought into a rebuild and understand what they are doing. I can't see the fans in Toronto have the patience or the understanding of a rebuild process.
Well thats what the point of this poll is to find out right, and it indicates otherwise.

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Old
03-24-2012, 02:35 PM
  #33
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I voted yes but only if Burke was fired first . He doesn't get another 4 years after he ****ed up his first 4 here .

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Old
03-24-2012, 02:39 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
First, we have been rebuilding for 3 years now, and all everybody does is complain, so the answer is no, this fan base cannot support a rebuild.
Maybe we're complaining because Burke indicated he didn't want to rebuild and didn't believe in 5 year builds but yet the 2 years in which you indicated that we've been "rebuilding" have been without our 1st pick??

Its kinda hard you know..to rebuild without having your 1st pick. Maybe that why people complain. LOL this is our first year with our own 1st, hooray!

Basically now that we've failed, all the supporters are saying, oh yeah well we've BEEN rebuilding, lol good one

I don't want to get into this yet again, I am tired. I had to reply though. Restocking, or making good trades have helped us a bit and Burke has done good there. It's just you don't rebuild without getting at least one blue chipper/franchise potential piece every year in the draft.

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Old
03-24-2012, 02:48 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafan519 View Post
Well thats what the point of this poll is to find out right, and it indicates otherwise.
A forum hardly counts for the majority of fans. I also think the media would have a tough time swallowing a rebuild.

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Old
03-24-2012, 02:51 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by MarcWagz View Post
This is something I had wondered for a while. While we were winning in the middle of the year I tricked myself into thinking we are good enough but we really aren't.

Would anybody else out there support a full rebuild? It would mean missing the playoffs for two more seasons, but we would have a chance at getting future star Mackinnon in the next draft along with another top tier talent before we start competing.

It would likely mean getting rid of all the stop gaps like Connolly and selling our decent player like Grabovski for draft picks.

I know it likely won't happen because Burke is stubborn, but if it did when we come to the other side of two years we would have talent capable of taking the league by storm.

I also know our fanbase is the most impatient in the league since they've had to wait the longest, hence this fanbase poll.
I don't get this question. What is a full rebuild -- finishing out of the playoffs for 8 years? Finishing in the bottom ten year after year. This already is a full rebuild. Problem is Burke is lying to you. And he doesn't know how to build right. This team is no better next year -- not one bit.

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Old
03-24-2012, 02:56 PM
  #37
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The same people who are saying yes are the same ones who are willing to throw Kadri, 1sts, etc at Nash or someone.

Talk about contradictory.

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03-24-2012, 03:05 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrock View Post
A forum hardly counts for the majority of fans. I also think the media would have a tough time swallowing a rebuild.
Theres probably over a thousand Leaf fans that are regular users on these boards. Seems like a pretty good sample size to me.

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Old
03-24-2012, 03:07 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Erdinger View Post
I've heard this argument before from the likes of Cox. Strangely enough it's the media like him not the fanbase that truly won't support a full rebuild. On this point I do understand Burke and Wilson's siege mentality over the last 4 seasons when dealing with some of these guys.
the only reason why the Leafs has lasted this long with this support is because the promise of playoffs "next year!"

it's a classic carrot on a stick. take that away and people lose interest.

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03-24-2012, 03:07 PM
  #40
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i voted for playoffs ASAP. but there wasn't an option to stay status quo, which i would have picked.

if the leafs fall thats good for the future, if they make the playoffs and dont give up any assets like next year then i will be happy. all those people who says lets do a full re-build have no idea of the talent we have in the minors.

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03-24-2012, 03:09 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by SeenSchenn2 View Post
The same people who are saying yes are the same ones who are willing to throw Kadri, 1sts, etc at Nash or someone.

Talk about contradictory.
this.

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Old
03-24-2012, 03:10 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeenSchenn2 View Post
The same people who are saying yes are the same ones who are willing to throw Kadri, 1sts, etc at Nash or someone.

Talk about contradictory.
The same people? Since there's 21 votes so far, why don't you tell us who they are, or back that up.

I've never wanted to trade our 1st and every year wanted us to trade for more 1st picks. Wanted to trade Grabo, Mac and etc for 1st picks.

So yeah unless you can back it up, I wouldn't say stuff like "the same people".

If any of our players were mentioned, you also have to understand that everyone knows we're not rebuilding, so adding a Nash and etc would go a long way, but not sacrificing our future too much.

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03-24-2012, 03:12 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Leafan519 View Post
Well thats what the point of this poll is to find out right, and it indicates otherwise.
A collection of fans on a prospect driven message board is hardy indicative of how the entire fanbase feels.

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Old
03-24-2012, 03:12 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
The same people? Since there's 21 votes so far, why don't you tell us who they are, or back that up.

I've never wanted to trade our 1st and every year wanted us to trade for more 1st picks. Wanted to trade Grabo, Mac and etc for 1st picks.

So yeah unless you can back it up, I wouldn't throw around words like "the same people".

If any of our players were mentioned, you also have to understand that everyone knows we're not rebuilding, so adding a Nash and etc would go a long way, but not sacrificing our future.
Agreed. I've always thought that the price and salary for Nash was way too high and no way have I wanted this team trading it's first rounder so yes match the names.

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Old
03-24-2012, 03:12 PM
  #45
Deebo
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Originally Posted by SeenSchenn2 View Post
The same people who are saying yes are the same ones who are willing to throw Kadri, 1sts, etc at Nash or someone.

Talk about contradictory.
Also they might be the same ones who want the prospects on the big club right away, with no regard for development.

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Old
03-24-2012, 03:27 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
Maybe we're complaining because Burke indicated he didn't want to rebuild and didn't believe in 5 year builds but yet the 2 years in which you indicated that we've been "rebuilding" have been without our 1st pick??

Its kinda hard you know..to rebuild without having your 1st pick. Maybe that why people complain. LOL this is our first year with our own 1st, hooray!

Basically now that we've failed, all the supporters are saying, oh yeah well we've BEEN rebuilding, lol good one

I don't want to get into this yet again, I am tired. I had to reply though. Restocking, or making good trades have helped us a bit and Burke has done good there. It's just you don't rebuild without getting at least one blue chipper/franchise potential piece every year in the draft.
Lol, bolded is the biggest misconception, and one of the big reasons that this fan base cannot support a rebuild.

Trading older players that aren't part of your core, and accumulating younger players, picks and prospects. That is a rebuild. That is exactly what we have done, and using a few of those picks to obtain a 21-year old superstar doesn't change that. For almost all rebuilding teams, getting a player of Kessel's caliber in 2 years of drafting is better than they can hope for.

And if you want to get technical.. We've had two drafts. Ignoring our other picks, we have obtained a franchise potential piece (Kessel) and a blue-chipper (Gardiner).

We were always rebuilding. It is not "after a failure" that we say this. The level to which we can compete during the rebuild has not lived up to Burke's or many of our hopes. The rebuild has not been a failure.

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Old
03-24-2012, 03:33 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Lol, bolded is the biggest misconception, and one of the big reasons that this fan base cannot support a rebuild.

Trading older players that aren't part of your core, and accumulating younger players, picks and prospects. That is a rebuild. That is exactly what we have done, and using a few of those picks to obtain a 21-year old superstar doesn't change that. For almost all rebuilding teams, getting a player of Kessel's caliber in 2 years of drafting is better than they can hope for.

And if you want to get technical.. We've had two drafts. Ignoring our other picks, we have obtained a franchise potential piece (Kessel) and a blue-chipper (Gardiner).

We were always rebuilding. It is not "after a failure" that we say this. The level to which we can compete during the rebuild has not lived up to Burke's or many of our hopes. The rebuild has not been a failure.
Sticky worthy.

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Old
03-24-2012, 03:38 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Lol, bolded is the biggest misconception, and one of the big reasons that this fan base cannot support a rebuild.

Trading older players that aren't part of your core, and accumulating younger players, picks and prospects. That is a rebuild. That is exactly what we have done, and using a few of those picks to obtain a 21-year old superstar doesn't change that. For almost all rebuilding teams, getting a player of Kessel's caliber in 2 years of drafting is better than they can hope for.

We were always rebuilding. It is not "after a failure" that we say this. The level to which we can compete during the rebuild has not lived up to Burke's or many of our hopes. The rebuild has not been a failure.
That's fair except for one thing. You may not need to finish in lottery to get assets and prospects and etc but you do if you want go from mediocrity to good-elite. You NEED to have that foundation.

All the our prospects we have, they're fine and good. I just don't seem them helping us improve into great-elite status.

Now great scouting goes a long way, as you don't always need to finish bottom 5 to get those prospects no but it's just you improve your percentage.

Kessel is great and all, but we were simply not at a stage where we were one or even two pieces away to trade 2 1st and 2nd for a kessel (yes i know he was 21). It cost us big time with Seguin and Hamilton.

That's the part some of you don't get. It was BAD TIMING, and it wasn't a hind sight 20/20 as most believed and even Bruins gm said he expected Leafs to finish lower in standings. So we were not rebuilding but, BUT I do think Burke had to adjust after that fiasco and has done so a bit but still not patient enough.

We'll see I guess, Burke refused 4 1st round picks this year, since he wants to win now. Lets wait till next year, or the year after.


Last edited by Sonny21: 03-24-2012 at 03:44 PM.
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Old
03-24-2012, 03:41 PM
  #49
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I voted yes, but I don't think we actually need a full rebuild. We've already started the rebuild and have put some great young pieces in the system and we just need to stick with the plan. The "No Playoffs ASAP" option doesnt sound smart to me because it makes me think we will sacrafice some of our future just to get in 7th or 8th and get our ***** kicked.

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03-24-2012, 04:01 PM
  #50
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if Toronto does ever pull off an Edmonton... i won't be able to purchase anymore waffles from the store

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