HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Are 'The Suits' the Source of Our Futility?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-22-2012, 12:28 PM
  #1
pdmuck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Country: United States
Posts: 168
vCash: 500
Are 'The Suits' the Source of Our Futility?

How much does the fact that the Leafs are owned by faceless corporate entities (Ontario Teachers and soon to be Bell/Rogers) account for the futility of this team?

Looking at the past Stanley Cup winners, they have all been owned by individuals or families who seemed to have more than just a cash flow interest in building a winner:

Boston - Jacobs
Chicago - Wirtz
Pittsburgh - Mario
Detroit - Ilitch
Anaheim - Samueli
Carolina - Karmanos

All these owners (despite the historical reputations of frugality of Jacobs and Wirtz, who were subsequently influenced by smarter second generation family members) had the personal competitive desire to do what it took to build a winner.

I'm not sure it's in the nature of a corporate entity to make the tough decisions and take the necessary steps to build a winner when it comes to a sports team. Sure they can run their models to maximize spending per ticket holder at the ACC, but can they run the team for the purposes of building a champion or at the very least a strong competitor?

I think there is an inherent problem with The Suits running the show, and that doesn't make me optimistic on the future.

pdmuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 12:31 PM
  #2
Dayjobdave
Registered User
 
Dayjobdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdmuck View Post
How much does the fact that the Leafs are owned by faceless corporate entities (Ontario Teachers and soon to be Bell/Rogers) account for the futility of this team?
zero

Dayjobdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 12:37 PM
  #3
Kessley Snipes*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,327
vCash: 500
I think the bigger problem is this "little man" mentality many "fans" of this team seem to have. There is nothing wrong with "Suits" and if you are jealous of them, maybe you should get a job.

Kessley Snipes* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 12:38 PM
  #4
Suntouchable13
Registered User
 
Suntouchable13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Thornhill, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,178
vCash: 500
That's why they hired Brian Burke as the President and GM. It's not like the "suits" are running the team directly. They gave Brian all of the resources he needs to build his team.

Suntouchable13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 12:40 PM
  #5
StarBurns RIP
No Agenda
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,906
vCash: 500
I'd think that if MLSE really were putting the heat on Burke to qualify for the playoffs that Burke would have made some deals designed to make the team more competitive immediately at the trade deadline.

StarBurns RIP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 01:19 PM
  #6
Frankie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,177
vCash: 500
its impossible to pinpoint it, but i think the rot in this organzation comes right from the top.

there's a losing culture in this organization. changing the gm, coach, all the players...nothing has helped. somewhere there's a losing attitude.

Frankie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 01:24 PM
  #7
Vexed
Registered User
 
Vexed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Barrie, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,701
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarBurns View Post
I'd think that if MLSE really were putting the heat on Burke to qualify for the playoffs that Burke would have made some deals designed to make the team more competitive immediately at the trade deadline.
I don't think the 'suits' (makes me laugh) shuld have been putting heat on Burke to make the playoffs.

If there has been any bad influence from ownership in the past, that would be exactly where it is. Patience is the key here and has been since Burke got here. I should rephrase that to tempered patience because the only option off the table was purposely bottoming out like an Edmonton does.

Vexed is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 01:25 PM
  #8
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdmuck View Post
How much does the fact that the Leafs are owned by faceless corporate entities (Ontario Teachers and soon to be Bell/Rogers) account for the futility of this team?

Looking at the past Stanley Cup winners, they have all been owned by individuals or families who seemed to have more than just a cash flow interest in building a winner:

Boston - Jacobs
Chicago - Wirtz
Pittsburgh - Mario
Detroit - Ilitch
Anaheim - Samueli
Carolina - Karmanos
There isn't an individual that can afford to buy MLSE. Ilitch bought the Red Wings when they were the Dead Things and paid $8 million for them. Pittsburgh, Anahein, and Carolina were all relatively cheap and the Wirtz's have owned the Hawks so long I don't know what they paid for them.

The benevolent billionaire is unlikely to ever show up.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 01:26 PM
  #9
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarBurns View Post
I'd think that if MLSE really were putting the heat on Burke to qualify for the playoffs that Burke would have made some deals designed to make the team more competitive immediately at the trade deadline.
People want the same pressure from above that was placed on Ferguson because that worked out so well.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 01:28 PM
  #10
BudMaster17
Gap Inspector
 
BudMaster17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Greece
Posts: 1,107
vCash: 500
Suits don't play, the players play. Toronto has been a max cap team or the ability to be one every year.

Playoffs= max revenue for the suits

The suits want us to win probably even more then they do since the profit millions per playoff game.

The only reason we are not winning is because of poor general management leading into poor asset management and roster decisions.

Ever

BudMaster17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 01:38 PM
  #11
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 7,389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
There isn't an individual that can afford to buy MLSE. Ilitch bought the Red Wings when they were the Dead Things and paid $8 million for them. Pittsburgh, Anahein, and Carolina were all relatively cheap and the Wirtz's have owned the Hawks so long I don't know what they paid for them.

The benevolent billionaire is unlikely to ever show up.
We just need someone who does not believe they are god running the show and making good decisions. Burke was not under any pressure to win now when he took over and it he his words and actions that have gotten us to this point.

He was not given a mandate to win now but a licence to restructure this team the way he saw fit. Had he stuck to a reasonable plan we would have many top assets within our system at present. We needed a goalie and still do our goalies in the minors are not the answer.

Drafting a goalie become a priority as he said you build from the net out and yet we have no goalie yet.

We need to find a GM who has the sack to build the team properly if Burke stays he can not trade our draft picks away as we need them to draft an elite player.

The new owners have to make an assessment and allow a GM to run the hockey team as they see fit within in the parameters of a good business plan.

diceman934 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 01:48 PM
  #12
thewave
Registered User
 
thewave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,421
vCash: 500
The private owners are smarter, most in it for the love of hockey and are smart enough to make good choices. That's why they win, they are owners that know what an organization needs to succeed. Ownership of the leafs has been a bunch of dolts around tables yapping at each other like HF boarders for years. Before that you had Ballard that just did not care whatsoever about winning.

The Organization needs simplified and restructured top down. They need a real hockey lover / entrepreneur to make things happen in Toronto, unfortunately the team is out of reach $.

thewave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 01:54 PM
  #13
Lebanese Leaf
Registered User
 
Lebanese Leaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 6,380
vCash: 500

Lebanese Leaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 01:56 PM
  #14
vezna*
Canada's Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
MLSE should be replaced. They just don't understand how to run a successful team.

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 01:59 PM
  #15
MapleLeafsFan4Ever
Go Leafs Go
 
MapleLeafsFan4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,774
vCash: 500
If were going to blame "The Suits" for anything let's do it for taking up all the tickets and keeping real Leafs fans out of the Air Canada Centre. How often are the Plantinum seats empty once a game starts. Plus didn't Burke say himself he has final word on all Hockey deals which he has final say on and not ownership?

MapleLeafsFan4Ever is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 02:07 PM
  #16
NiL8r87
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdmuck View Post
How much does the fact that the Leafs are owned by faceless corporate entities (Ontario Teachers and soon to be Bell/Rogers) account for the futility of this team?

Looking at the past Stanley Cup winners, they have all been owned by individuals or families who seemed to have more than just a cash flow interest in building a winner:

Boston - Jacobs
Chicago - Wirtz
Pittsburgh - Mario
Detroit - Ilitch
Anaheim - Samueli
Carolina - Karmanos

All these owners (despite the historical reputations of frugality of Jacobs and Wirtz, who were subsequently influenced by smarter second generation family members) had the personal competitive desire to do what it took to build a winner.

I'm not sure it's in the nature of a corporate entity to make the tough decisions and take the necessary steps to build a winner when it comes to a sports team. Sure they can run their models to maximize spending per ticket holder at the ACC, but can they run the team for the purposes of building a champion or at the very least a strong competitor?

I think there is an inherent problem with The Suits running the show, and that doesn't make me optimistic on the future.
Could Grabovski not getting his favorite stick pattern be the source of our futility?

NiL8r87 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 02:08 PM
  #17
thewave
Registered User
 
thewave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
If were going to blame "The Suits" for anything let's do it for taking up all the tickets and keeping real Leafs fans out of the Air Canada Centre. How often are the Plantinum seats empty once a game starts. Plus didn't Burke say himself he has final word on all Hockey deals which he has final say on and not ownership?
Because if Illitch saw what was happening to the Leafs, he would come rushing into the board room rip them new ***** and question Burke re: Wilson in the first place.

Suits humm and haww and debate and do nothing in the end. A hockey team like it or not should be run like an Army and the President if smart will override his generals if he has that gut instinct to do so.

thewave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 02:12 PM
  #18
Darylman
Registered User
 
Darylman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,646
vCash: 500
The suits responsible are the ones in the lower bowl who don't give a **** about the team. Look at Winnipeg's games, then look at ours. Its disgusting.

Darylman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 02:16 PM
  #19
hullsy47
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
Because if Illitch saw what was happening to the Leafs, he would come rushing into the board room rip them new ***** and question Burke re: Wilson in the first place.

Suits humm and haww and debate and do nothing in the end. A hockey team like it or not should be run like an Army and the President if smart will override his generals if he has that gut instinct to do so.
illitch knows sports ....actually so does his wife and children ....problem is the leafs board so far hasnt had the gumbtion to ask proper questions ...and larry tannebaum hasnt been embarassed enuff at a cocktail party to show some balls
if the new board has a plan and burkes in it ,then the talking head who represents that boardroom will be be a bigger spindoctor than burke
fair or unfair 1 gm .....2 assistant gm's, a capologist.....and next year your paying 2 coaches ya id have a few concerns too

hullsy47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 02:19 PM
  #20
beauchamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Laval, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdmuck View Post
How much does the fact that the Leafs are owned by faceless corporate entities (Ontario Teachers and soon to be Bell/Rogers) account for the futility of this team?

Looking at the past Stanley Cup winners, they have all been owned by individuals or families who seemed to have more than just a cash flow interest in building a winner:

Boston - Jacobs
Chicago - Wirtz
Pittsburgh - Mario
Detroit - Ilitch
Anaheim - Samueli
Carolina - Karmanos

All these owners (despite the historical reputations of frugality of Jacobs and Wirtz, who were subsequently influenced by smarter second generation family members) had the personal competitive desire to do what it took to build a winner.

I'm not sure it's in the nature of a corporate entity to make the tough decisions and take the necessary steps to build a winner when it comes to a sports team. Sure they can run their models to maximize spending per ticket holder at the ACC, but can they run the team for the purposes of building a champion or at the very least a strong competitor?

I think there is an inherent problem with The Suits running the show, and that doesn't make me optimistic on the future.
Might have been said later in the thread, but seriously, look at all the money the so-called "Suits" have invested in the management team, plus the option they gave management to bury mistakes in the minors and take on contracts (Lombardi) to get hopefully useful assets.

beauchamp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 02:21 PM
  #21
beauchamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Laval, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
There isn't an individual that can afford to buy MLSE. Ilitch bought the Red Wings when they were the Dead Things and paid $8 million for them. Pittsburgh, Anahein, and Carolina were all relatively cheap and the Wirtz's have owned the Hawks so long I don't know what they paid for them.

The benevolent billionaire is unlikely to ever show up.
Great post.

We can expect a blue moon tonight.

beauchamp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 02:22 PM
  #22
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,867
vCash: 500
The suits were the problem when they handcuffed JFJ.

They are not the problem this time around.

Burke has had virtually complete autonomy, hired an enormous and expensive management team, and spent like a drunken sailor (including burying contracts). It is all on him this go around.

BraveCanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 02:23 PM
  #23
thewave
Registered User
 
thewave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
Might have been said later in the thread, but seriously, look at all the money the so-called "Suits" have invested in the management team, plus the option they gave management to bury mistakes in the minors and take on contracts (Lombardi) to get hopefully useful assets.
That's great now it's time to dump the likes of, Armstrong, Lombardi, Steckel, Bozak, Crabb, Rosehill, Connolly, Kulemin (I think he is finished HERE) maybe keep Mac but if you get something for him you may as well roll again.

thewave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 02:25 PM
  #24
Dayjobdave
Registered User
 
Dayjobdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
The suits were the problem when they handcuffed JFJ.

They are not the problem this time around.

Burke has had virtually complete autonomy, hired an enormous and expensive management team, and spent like a drunken sailor (including burying contracts). It is all on him this go around.
The shadow cabinet of Healy and Domi were running the Leafs through Larry's ear. JFJ was powerless to stop them.

The best thing about Burke was having the credibility to be in control. Its' probably a good thing it would cost 9 mil to buy him out right now.

Dayjobdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2012, 02:26 PM
  #25
vezna*
Canada's Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
The suits were the problem when they handcuffed JFJ.

They are not the problem this time around.

Burke has had virtually complete autonomy, hired an enormous and expensive management team, and spent like a drunken sailor (including burying contracts). It is all on him this go around.
They messed up hiring GMs who rush to make the playoffs instead of opting for a real rebuild. Burke was handcuffed with crappy conracts, just like the next guy will be when Burke gets replaced.

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:55 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.