HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Henrik Sedin Solution to Dangerous Play - Stiffer In-Game Penalties

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-25-2012, 03:45 PM
  #26
crazyforhockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,649
vCash: 500
Shanahan could have sent a stiffer message to a BLANTANT HIT to the head...also clearly a intent to injure with 7gms(reg season) + 3 or 4 playoff gms

crazyforhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 03:57 PM
  #27
Finkle is Einhorn
Registered User
 
Finkle is Einhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,747
vCash: 500
Nope. The entire problem is the application of the rulebook. Why would we entrust the refs with harsher penalties? That knife cuts both ways.

Finkle is Einhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 04:16 PM
  #28
cutcopy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 687
vCash: 500
Henrik's right. It starts with the players having mutual respect for one another. It's not going to matter about how long the suspension is, if those particular players don't have any regard towards the other person's well being.

His ideas about more stiff penalties in games is pretty good too. Wouldn't the guys just love watching their team lose from the penalty box, or from the locker room because of their meat headed plays?

cutcopy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 04:18 PM
  #29
PG Canuck
Moderator
 
PG Canuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Prince George, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,547
vCash: 50
Quote:
NEW YORK -- Colorado Avalanche forward Chuck Kobasew has been fined $2,500, the maximum allowed under the Collective Bargaining Agreement, for charging Vancouver defenseman Aaron Rome during NHL Game #1125 in Denver on Saturday, March 24, the National Hockey League’s Department of Player Safety announced today.

The incident occurred at 6:34 of the first period. A minor penalty for charging was assessed to Kobasew.

The fine money goes to the Players' Emergency Assistance Fund.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=624050

Maybe Shanny is listening? I mean, this Kobasew thing didn't seem worthy enough to the NHL to look at.

PG Canuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 04:21 PM
  #30
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
So what happens if Chicago is down 5-0? They know they aren't coming back, might aswell **** up our players for the postseason. Suspensions should stay, any head hit should get a 5min.
Henrik is not advocating the abolition of supplementary discipline and suspensions.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 04:29 PM
  #31
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximLapierre View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=624050

Maybe Shanny is listening? I mean, this Kobasew thing didn't seem worthy enough to the NHL to look at.
It seems to be a message from Shanahan - do not seek retribution for legal hits.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 04:30 PM
  #32
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpaulson View Post
Henrik's right. It starts with the players having mutual respect for one another. It's not going to matter about how long the suspension is, if those particular players don't have any regard towards the other person's well being.

His ideas about more stiff penalties in games is pretty good too. Wouldn't the guys just love watching their team lose from the penalty box, or from the locker room because of their meat headed plays?
As Henrik says that is what will get the attention of hockey players.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 04:42 PM
  #33
flack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,366
vCash: 500
The NHL will take this as an indirect attack on the reffing and suspend and fine Henrik, leading the charge will be Stephane Auger.

flack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 05:01 PM
  #34
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flack View Post
The NHL will take this as an indirect attack on the reffing and suspend and fine Henrik, leading the charge will be Stephane Auger.
And Ron MacLean will do the editorial and prep the video showing Henrik's past misdeeds.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 05:34 PM
  #35
LiveeviL
No unique points
 
LiveeviL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Jämtland, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 5,663
vCash: 50
Send a message via ICQ to LiveeviL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
I don't think the NHLPA will go for that one.
No but something got to give, just raising the amount of penalty minutes is too much of a game changer to me; the game is supposed to be 5 vs 5 in general. Give a percentage of the fine to NHLPA and they will be more benevolent to the idea, I don’t know. It is after all in the interest of NHLPA to play along with measures taken to make the game safer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
That will just take out all competitiveness and physical play out of the game. Seems like a horrible idea to me.

Henrik's idea works because the players care about their team and their team-mates, and the team will have an incentive not to ice dirty players. In your system, a team could employ pure goons that get higher base salary to compensate for the penalties and suspensions — there would be nothing stopping them.
That is an empirical question. If the result is not wanted you can always tweak down the penalty, counted in money. Further, you are free to lay bone crushing hits at your hearts content without paying a dime, just lay them by the rules.

A higher base salary does not help much if the fine counts as a percentage against salary. If some teams pay a gone more than he is worth to make the percentage fine less threatening? Well it is still a cap to count against for the team, if anyone wants to overpay goons, go ahead.

I think this discussion is important, not only at this forum (rather the opposite) but higher up in the ranks in the NHL. Something needs to be done to make the game safer and a lot of things have been discussed, we know them all. I see an economic incentive directed at the perpetrators directly is the most effective way, without changing the rules and the game to much.

LiveeviL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 05:43 PM
  #36
Tiranis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 21,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveeviL View Post
No but something got to give, just raising the amount of penalty minutes is too much of a game changer to me; the game is supposed to be 5 vs 5 in general.
But the result will be less of those bad plays, rather than more PPs. Guys will learn to watch their elbows, not to charge, hit guys in the numbers, etc. Coaches will start to bench players that rack up too many penalty minutes for those types of things.

Tiranis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 05:57 PM
  #37
LiveeviL
No unique points
 
LiveeviL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Jämtland, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 5,663
vCash: 50
Send a message via ICQ to LiveeviL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
But the result will be less of those bad plays, rather than more PPs. Guys will learn to watch their elbows, not to charge, hit guys in the numbers, etc. Coaches will start to bench players that rack up too many penalty minutes for those types of things.
My take is that both solutions will reduce the bad plays. Hitting only the player's private economy will not risk having less 5 vs 5 time, which is the risk with Henrik's suggestion (if not everyone plays along 100%).

LiveeviL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 05:59 PM
  #38
Finkle is Einhorn
Registered User
 
Finkle is Einhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,747
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
But the result will be less of those bad plays, rather than more PPs. Guys will learn to watch their elbows, not to charge, hit guys in the numbers, etc. Coaches will start to bench players that rack up too many penalty minutes for those types of things.
When has that ever really worked?

How it'll probably play out? Refs will be vigilant in calling the harsher penalties for about a month or so until they miss a few going either way. GMs will complain that their team got screwed over on a particular call, pressuring the league until refs are too afraid to call the penalty for fear of affecting the outcome of the game.

Remember when the NHL was coming off the lockout and determined to speed up the game and promote offense? They brought in a few new rules, such as two minutes for clearing the puck over the glass in the defensive zone, goaltenders playing the puck outside of the trapezoid, and getting waived out of the faceoff circle twice in a row. Guess which one of those three is never called anymore? Hint: it's the one that requires the most interpretation.

Finkle is Einhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 06:08 PM
  #39
xtr3m
Registered User
 
xtr3m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,262
vCash: 500
The league has to update its policies and the way things are done. Have a panel that will issue suspensions and increase the $2,500 fine.

xtr3m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 06:20 PM
  #40
Finkle is Einhorn
Registered User
 
Finkle is Einhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,747
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtr3m View Post
The league has to update its policies and the way things are done. Have a panel that will issue suspensions and increase the $2,500 fine.
The fine is the most egregious part of this whole equation.

Average NHL salary: $2.4 million. So the max fine represents .001% of a player's salary. Hell, let's say they only take home half of their gross earnings and double that to .002%. It's pocket change to these guys.

Finkle is Einhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 06:25 PM
  #41
The Bob Cole
Ohhhh Baby.
 
The Bob Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Centre Ice
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,681
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finkle is Einhorn View Post
The fine is the most egregious part of this whole equation.

Average NHL salary: $2.4 million. So the max fine represents .001% of a player's salary. Hell, let's say they only take home half of their gross earnings and double that to .002%. It's pocket change to these guys.
It's a warning, a slap on the wrist to make sure they know they will be under the microscope if they do something stupid. It isn't meant to deter.

The Bob Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 06:34 PM
  #42
Cocoa Crisp
Registered User
 
Cocoa Crisp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NYC
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 2,785
vCash: 500
What about a third class of penalties for really egregious fouls like elbows, bad boardings etc.?Something like a 2 minute 5-on-3? That might make teams think twice.

Cocoa Crisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 06:35 PM
  #43
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 19,498
vCash: 1000
I like the rugby approach. Keith tried that in soccer/rugby he'd get kicked out of the game and his team would spend the entire game a man down since you don't get to replace sin binned player. Unfortunately 1 man down in a 6 man a side game is different than 1 man down in an 11/13/15 a side game.

They need to get the video refs involved in incidents like these. Just because O'Halloran "missed seeing it" doesn't mean Keith should have gotten off. I'd take no time at all to check and upgrade that penalty to 5 and a game.

That and realise what is 1 game in another sport is not 1 game in hockey. Their seasons are have 3 times less games so 1 game suspension should be 3 in hockey. Keith would have gotten 5 games in another sport, 15 in hockey should have been the call. The fact he's a cleanskin should not earn a discount, the NHL should be looking crackdown on repreat offenders they should be getting the same 15 + repeat offender penalty +25% +50% +100% (escalating with number of repeats) etc.

me2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 06:38 PM
  #44
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 19,498
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Lui View Post
It's a warning, a slap on the wrist to make sure they know they will be under the microscope if they do something stupid. It isn't meant to deter.
I'd rather it counted as 1/2 a game suspension. Next time you do it another 1/2 = 1 game suspension.

me2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 06:40 PM
  #45
Edler Von Gud
Registered User
 
Edler Von Gud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,525
vCash: 881
Send a message via MSN to Edler Von Gud
NHL needs to learn from the NFL. Protect your top assets and marketable players. Nobody comes to a hockey game to see hits. Nobody comes to a football game to see sacks. In the NHL, players don't have respect for each other or the disciplinary figures. In the NFL, players don't have respect for each other, but they damn well have respect for Goodell because he carries a swift hammer of justice and isn't affraid to ruffle feathers.

The NHL always seems to start an intitiative only to see them ***** out. Happened with Obstruction, and now it's happened with discipline. Every once in a while they will pick out some random nobody and hand down a severe suspension on that player and people will actually buy what they are selling when in reality it's just a cover for a weak authority of justice. Rome was the fall guy, and I'm sure there will be another fall guy for the NHL to put it's hat on to make them look like they are actually doing their jobs.

Everyone in hockey(NHLPA, NHL governers, nhl head office, etc) needs to get their heads out of their collective ***** and fix it. Having star players out for long durations because of cheap shots isn't making anyone money or helping sell the sport. The only people benefiting are concussion specialists.

Edler Von Gud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 06:47 PM
  #46
luongo321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
And Ron MacLean will do the editorial and prep the video showing Henrik's past misdeeds.
Including the twins interview for when they donate 1.5 million to childrens? Hospital. Classless.

luongo321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 07:16 PM
  #47
Pure West
Registered User
 
Pure West's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,597
vCash: 500
I agree in principle. I don't know if its anything fundamentally wrong though, as normally they would call a 5 and a game, this is just a case of O'Halloran blowing a call and everyone knows it.

Probably a great example of this working is the January game against the Bruins. Marchand makes a stupid, dangerous play on Salo, correctly gets assessed a 5 and a game. The Canucks score twice on the major and win the most emotional game of the year likely for either team. Marchand costs his team the game, and likely this lesson is bigger than any lesson he'd get from his 5 game suspension, which when your team is comfortably in the playoffs is essentially just a much needed rest.

There's obviously some situations where this doesn't apply though. Blowout games, games that don't mean much in the standings to either team, etc. where supplemental discipline is more of a factor.

In the Keith case, with Chicago pretty comfortably in the playoffs he essentially just gets off scot-free with some rest before the playoffs.

Pure West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 07:28 PM
  #48
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I actually agree with Henrik and his reasoning is sound. We already have double-minors for the bloody lip thing so why not extend that to elbows, hits to the head, etc. Those plays are no less dangerous (likely more) than cutting somebody with a stick.
Blood isn't even mentioned in the NHL rule book. It is another case of the NHL being a fly by the seat of their pants, bush league.

Henrik is 100% correct here. I can't stand seeing a nasty high stick that hits a player bluntly and doesn't draw blood, when a little grazer where a guy has to rub his mouth on the towel to show any glimpse of blood on it gets 4.

The NHL is a joke.

arsmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 08:01 PM
  #49
Finkle is Einhorn
Registered User
 
Finkle is Einhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,747
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Lui View Post
It's a warning, a slap on the wrist to make sure they know they will be under the microscope if they do something stupid. It isn't meant to deter.
That microscope wasn't enough to prevent Kobasew from taking his second max fine against the Canucks this year. The fines are completely ineffectual no matter how you slice it.

Finkle is Einhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2012, 08:03 PM
  #50
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 19,498
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finkle is Einhorn View Post
That microscope wasn't enough to prevent Kobasew from taking his second max fine against the Canucks this year. The fines are completely ineffectual no matter how you slice it.
You think he'd take that risk of a 2nd half game suspension when he already had one 1/2 game suspension to his name? Probably not. The fines are near useless.

me2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:41 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.