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Eric Staal's impressive season

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:04 PM
  #26
OilerTyler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
haha and Staal doesn't make his better? Giroux is a great player but if anyone thinks his linemates aren't vastly superior to Staal's then you're crazy
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Originally Posted by PaulProteus View Post
Hahahahahaha! Oh, man.
You guys think Hartnell and Jagr would have as many goals if Staal was their centre?

They wouldn't.

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:05 PM
  #27
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This is amazing, I would have never thought to look at it this way.


Last edited by Devils Nick30: 03-25-2012 at 04:16 PM.
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Old
03-25-2012, 04:06 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
Giroux's linemates score more than Staal's because Giroux makes them better.
I think it's quite possible to come to the conclusion that Giroux is superior to Staal while at the same time acknowledging that Giroux's linemates are superior to Staal's linemates. One does not disprove the other. Jiri Tlusty wouldn't be on pace to score 38 goals if he was playing with Giroux, and Scott Hartnell wouldn't be on pace to score 19 if he was playing with Staal.

It's ridiculous to state that Jiri Tlusty and Chad LaRose are equal to Scott Hartnell and Jaromir Jagr, and that the latter two have superior production merely because of their centreman.

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03-25-2012, 04:06 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
You guys think Hartnell and Jagr would have as many goals if Staal was their centre?

They wouldn't.
I think this analysis pretty clearly proves they would be even better with Staal.

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:06 PM
  #30
MGorgon
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It's hard to tell if the OP is serious. You expect us to believe that Staal is having a season comparable to Gretzky?

The problem with the internet is there are so many people, and some people crazy enough to believe exactly what the OP is talking about. This is just like Poe's law, it's almost impossible to determine with 100% certainty if someone is trolling, because there are people who actually believe that stuff.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...=Poe%27s%20Law

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:06 PM
  #31
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Slowly back away from the calculator . . .

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03-25-2012, 04:07 PM
  #32
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This whole thread is like saying Nash would be better if he was on Detroit. Well no kidding.
Fact - Staal was bad at start of year. Fact, now he is not...the end.
This should not have been about him being better than anyone or how analyzing this to death means anything at trophy time. It should be...Hey Erik Staal is playing well now agree...disagree.

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:07 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandwagon cole canes View Post
Eric Staal has 45 assists in 76 games.

His assists are on goals by:

Tlusty (6)
Faulk (5)
Brent (5)
Skinner (5)
Harrison (4)
LaRose (3)
Stewart (3)
Jokinen (2)
Dwyer (2)
Samson (2)
Allen (1)
Poni (1)
Dalpe (1)
Sutter (1)
McBain (1)
Spacek (1)
Joslin (1)
Ruutu (1)

To calculate the average goals scored by each individual player, we'd multiply each goal scorer's season total by the number of time Staal assisted on a goal by them (for example, Tlusty would count six different times as a 17 goal scorer, while Ruutu would count once as a 17 goal scorer, etc), then divide that number by Staal's assist total. We wind up with an average of 11.2 goals.

Now, let's compare this to HF sensation and NHL assist leader Claude Giroux (note: Henrik Sedin passed Claude Giroux in assists while I was typing this post):

Hartnell (21)
Jagr (10)
Simmonds (10)
Read (4)
Timonen (4)
Van Riemsdyk (3)
Meszaros (1)
Gustafsson (1)
Voracek (1)
Couturier (1)
Schenn (1)

If we apply the same formula to Giroux's assists, we wind up with an average of 22.7 goals scored by those players.

11.2 average goals by Staal's teammates divided by 22.7 average goals by Giroux's teammates = .49

Staal has scored 76% as many assists as Giroux while playing with 49% of the talent.

Adjusting Giroux's assist total to Staal's situation, Giroux would have 29 assists if he was on the Hurricanes, while Staal would have 91 assists if he were on the Flyers.

Calculating the difference in the playmaking quality of their linemates would be too exhausting of a process, but let's assume that the playmaking talent disparity between their teammates is equal to the goalscoring disparity.

We wind up with the following results:

ADJUSTED POINT TOTALS


Giroux - 13 goals, 29 assists, 42 points
Staal - 46 goals, 91 assists, 137 points


League scoring is currently at 5.44 goals per game. During Wayne Gretzky's 215 point season, league scoring was at 7.94 goals per game. If we were to adjust Staal's Giroux-adjusted point totals to that season, we'd wind up with Staal having 200 points.

So, Staal is on pace to have one of the top five adjusted Claude Giroux-adjusted statistical seasons in history.
Man I love this friggin thread! The thought going into it is just awesome in a scientific way.

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03-25-2012, 04:07 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
You guys think Hartnell and Jagr would have as many goals if Staal was their centre?

They wouldn't.
As many? No, they wouldn't have as many.

They'd have more.

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03-25-2012, 04:07 PM
  #35
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When did Rooster become a top 5 player in the league?

Now that he's popular, I'm losing interest.

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03-25-2012, 04:07 PM
  #36
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Put Giroux in Carolina and Staal in Philadelphia, suddenly it's Giroux that would have the three times better "adjusted point totals".

Quote:
Originally Posted by MGorgon View Post
It's hard to tell if the OP is serious. You expect us to believe that Staal is having a season comparable to Gretzky??
A lot better than Gretzky actually. Think about it.. how many assists didn't Gretzky have on goals from Jari Kurri?

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:09 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
You guys think Hartnell and Jagr would have as many goals if Staal was their centre?

They wouldn't.
Probably not, but Staal is definitely an underrated playmaker. Give him a consistent 30-40 goal winger to play with and he increases his assist totals by at least 10 (assuming this goal scorer doesn't whiff on over half his chances like Staal's linemates the last few years).

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:09 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGorgon View Post
It's hard to tell if the OP is serious. You expect us to believe that Staal is having a season comparable to Gretzky??
Did you not look at the statistics?

Staal is on pace to have one of the top five adjusted Claude Giroux-adjusted statistical seasons in history.

I think that speaks for itself.

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:10 PM
  #39
Dirty Dan
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Maybe we should tell the flyers to stop scoring without giroux, then he will look like gretkzy eh

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:11 PM
  #40
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Cole left this Defensive Cane system and has really elevated his game in a more open environment.

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:13 PM
  #41
impeach estaalo
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Originally Posted by Brooklanders View Post
Cole left this Defensive Cane system and has really elevated his game in a more open environment.
True, and one can't overstate the impact of playing in a full building every night in front of knowledgeable, passionate hockey fans.

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:14 PM
  #42
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Staal's biggest accomplishments: Cup winner, Olympic Gold Metal
Giroux's biggest accomplishments: Winning a face off against Steve Ott and dancing to Mac Miller songs on 24/7

Clearly Staal > Giroux
do I really need a sarcasm smiley

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:15 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklanders View Post
Cole left this Defensive Cane system and has really elevated his game in a more open environment.
Cole want return a Cane

Also, what defensive system do you speak of? Our defense bleeds goals every season.

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:16 PM
  #44
impeach estaalo
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I think this topic has gotten way off-course. It was intended to praise Staal, not to bash Giroux. I picked Giroux because he was leading the NHL in assists at the time. This thread would be about Henrik Sedin-adjusted point totals if it were written today.

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:17 PM
  #45
Ten88Nineteen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandwagon cole canes View Post
top five adjusted Claude Giroux-adjusted statistical seasons in history.


Bravo, sir. Bravo.

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:17 PM
  #46
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wut.

Seriously what kind of circus math is this?

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:17 PM
  #47
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Hehe.

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:17 PM
  #48
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Cole left this Defensive Cane system and has really elevated his game in a more open environment.

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:19 PM
  #49
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Honestly, you could have actually made a reasonable mathematical argument that Staal had a decent year and could have statistically represented the real difference in linemate contribution by doing this:

Goals scored by teammate A - Assists by Staal on Teammate A's goals = Staal-free goals

This means you calculate the "Staal-free goals" by those players to determine how good they are sans-Staal and then do a weighted average of those numbers based upon the assists Staal actually got in the year. You could then adjust Staal's assists by using Giroux's assist distribution-weight and his linemates sans-Giroux goals to get an actual representative number. Naturally this wouldn't be perfect because it would be under the premise that Giroux didn't contribute to any of the "sans-Giroux" goals without being credited with an assist but it would be something to discuss at least.

Instead you did this, which is a completely inappropriate statistical analysis and is bankrupt of any intellectual thought.

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Old
03-25-2012, 04:19 PM
  #50
GIN ANTONIC
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It's pretty easy to figure out guys.

CGA (Claude-Giroux-Adjusted) Points >>> Actual NHL Points

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