HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Eric Staal's impressive season

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-25-2012, 04:58 PM
  #76
Blueline Bomber
Expectations - high
 
Blueline Bomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 23,055
vCash: 500


So many people with their panties in a bunch.

Blueline Bomber is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 04:59 PM
  #77
Honour Over Glory
Registered User
 
Honour Over Glory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North America
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 11,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
You guys think Hartnell and Jagr would have as many goals if Staal was their centre?

They wouldn't.
Giroux is good, not great. Great players are great regardless of their linemates, like Crosby or Malkin for example (Malkin made magic happen with Fedotenko...FEDOTENKO...this year he deserves better wingers). I think Giroux's #'s would take a dip if he had lesser wingers, probably not by a whole lot though, the kid is good. Staal seems to need better wingers to put up the kind of numbers to justify his contract, though.

Honour Over Glory is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:01 PM
  #78
J17 Vs Proclamation
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Reading.
Country: South Korea
Posts: 7,875
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to J17 Vs Proclamation
HF thread production line :

Is player Canadian? ;If yes, drop down. If No proceed to bottom tree.

Is player born on farm? ; If yes, drop down. If No ; PLAYER IS CLASSLESS

Does player play like Aslan? ; If yes, player is underated and Canadian Hero.

.................................................. ........

If player is not Canadian, is he European? If yes, proceed to start thread stating he is overrated and cannot play Defense.

J17 Vs Proclamation is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:03 PM
  #79
hockeyr5
Registered User
 
hockeyr5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 2,460
vCash: 500
What if Staal and Giroux became team/linemates!?!?!


hockeyr5 is online now  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:08 PM
  #80
Burke the Legend
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,131
vCash: 500
91 assists is impressive! Put this guy on the Hart shortlist.

Burke the Legend is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:10 PM
  #81
Honour Over Glory
Registered User
 
Honour Over Glory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North America
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 11,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyr5 View Post
What if Staal and Giroux became team/linemates!?!?!

Lol, at that cap hit...I'd love to see who they had to give up to get him. It'd have to be young players because losing Staal would mean Carolina is going through a quick rebuild.

Honour Over Glory is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:17 PM
  #82
JimmyStart*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandwagon cole canes View Post
EDIT: This thread isn't intended to bash Claude Giroux, but to highlight Staal's greatness. I picked Giroux because he was leading the NHL in assists at the time I started writing the post.

Eric Staal has 45 assists in 76 games.

His assists are on goals by:

Tlusty (6)
Faulk (5)
Brent (5)
Skinner (5)
Harrison (4)
LaRose (3)
Stewart (3)
Jokinen (2)
Dwyer (2)
Samson (2)
Allen (1)
Poni (1)
Dalpe (1)
Sutter (1)
McBain (1)
Spacek (1)
Joslin (1)
Ruutu (1)

To calculate the average goals scored by each individual player, we'd multiply each goal scorer's season total by the number of time Staal assisted on a goal by them (for example, Tlusty would count six different times as a 17 goal scorer, while Ruutu would count once as a 17 goal scorer, etc), then divide that number by Staal's assist total. We wind up with an average of 11.2 goals.

Now, let's compare this to HF sensation and NHL assist leader Claude Giroux (note: Henrik Sedin passed Claude Giroux in assists while I was typing this post):

Hartnell (21)
Jagr (10)
Simmonds (10)
Read (4)
Timonen (4)
Van Riemsdyk (3)
Meszaros (1)
Gustafsson (1)
Voracek (1)
Couturier (1)
Schenn (1)

If we apply the same formula to Giroux's assists, we wind up with an average of 22.7 goals scored by those players.

11.2 average goals by Staal's teammates divided by 22.7 average goals by Giroux's teammates = .49

Staal has scored 76% as many assists as Giroux while playing with 49% of the talent.

Adjusting Giroux's assist total to Staal's situation, Giroux would have 29 assists if he was on the Hurricanes, while Staal would have 91 assists if he were on the Flyers.

Calculating the difference in the playmaking quality of their linemates would be too exhausting of a process, but let's assume that the playmaking talent disparity between their teammates is equal to the goalscoring disparity.

We wind up with the following results:

ADJUSTED POINT TOTALS


Giroux - 13 goals, 29 assists, 42 points
Staal - 46 goals, 91 assists, 137 points


League scoring is currently at 5.44 goals per game. During Wayne Gretzky's 215 point season, league scoring was at 7.94 goals per game. If we were to adjust Staal's Giroux-adjusted point totals to that season, we'd wind up with Staal having 200 points.

So, Staal is on pace to have one of the top five adjusted Claude Giroux-adjusted statistical seasons in history.
Eric is that you? Or his agent?

JimmyStart* is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:17 PM
  #83
SB164
Registered User
 
SB164's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: MTL
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyr5 View Post
What if Staal and Giroux became team/linemates!?!?!


SB164 is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:18 PM
  #84
coachwithoutahead
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 227
vCash: 500
I think you're on the right track, but the omission of the "number of wingers who farted in the locker room that day," "arena proximity to nearest Tex-Mex restaurant" or "average % of body fat among unfaithful player wives(post lockout)" stats is just too much to overlook. You also might want to consider using the "Carey Elwes top-10 favorite muffin flavors" weighted scale. Just a thought...

coachwithoutahead is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:44 PM
  #85
Anton Dubinchuk
yeeeeee
 
Anton Dubinchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,553
vCash: 500
I will bump this thread every day until I die.

Anton Dubinchuk is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:45 PM
  #86
2 12 oz Drinks
Or Less
 
2 12 oz Drinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: United States
Country: United States
Posts: 1,338
vCash: 500
This is hilarious.

And to the guys freaking out right now: take a joke, this is meant to be funny

2 12 oz Drinks is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:45 PM
  #87
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 34,352
vCash: 500
In fairness to Giroux, Staal has had the advantage of skating with Chad LaRose on a regular basis.

tarheelhockey is online now  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:48 PM
  #88
2 12 oz Drinks
Or Less
 
2 12 oz Drinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: United States
Country: United States
Posts: 1,338
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
In fairness to Giroux, Staal has had the advantage of skating with Chad LaRose on a regular basis.
Claude probably couldn't handle playing with a smile that great

2 12 oz Drinks is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:52 PM
  #89
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
RIP
 
DekeLikeYouMeanIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,614
vCash: 500
Yea you're misusing the stats system. You can just say if this player played for this team, he'd have this amount of points. There are things you can't measure like chemistry, getting along with coach, personal life, etc.

Having said that, E.Staal has been incredible since Marc came back.

DekeLikeYouMeanIt is online now  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:52 PM
  #90
PaulProteus
****ing amaxing dman
 
PaulProteus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,104
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
What intangibles? His inconsistent effort in so many games? The way they've missed the playoffs twice in a row now with him as C?

Canadian farm boy wearing a C who's won in the past must mean automatic intangibles.
Let us be clear: it's a sod farm.

Intangibles aren't automatic when they come off a sod farm, btw. They're nurtured along slowly, with lots of care and fertilizer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
I was just thinking about this when painting a brandon sutter mural in my guest bedroom the other night. Why do we pay Eric Staal based only upon his CGA? He's not an five hundred foot player.


Last edited by PaulProteus: 03-25-2012 at 05:59 PM.
PaulProteus is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:53 PM
  #91
2 12 oz Drinks
Or Less
 
2 12 oz Drinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: United States
Country: United States
Posts: 1,338
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
Yea you're misusing the stats system. You can just say if this player played for this team, he'd have this amount of points. There are things you can't measure like chemistry, getting along with coach, personal life, etc.

Having said that, E.Staal has been incredible since Marc came back.
The point of this whole thread is about misusing stats.

2 12 oz Drinks is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:56 PM
  #92
coo1beans
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 498
vCash: 500
Mind = Blown

coo1beans is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:58 PM
  #93
DIONBOZAK
Registered User
 
DIONBOZAK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: T.O.
Country: Canada
Posts: 542
vCash: 500


Anyone else get the feeling that this thread is going to go down in HF history like the "NHL Player Derek Morris" thread?

DIONBOZAK is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 05:59 PM
  #94
Brooklanders*
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan Foxs Thumbs View Post
wtf is this and how is it relevant?
To me this is the greatest thread of all time. I needed a good laugh.

Brooklanders* is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 06:01 PM
  #95
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 34,352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 12 oz Drinks View Post
Claude probably couldn't handle playing with a smile that great
It takes a hell of a player not to be distracted, and focus on the game. Imagine playing on a line with George Clooney. At some point, Staal must be tempted to just stop and admire his situation. It's hard to set up 5-foot tap-ins when you're distracted.

Giroux probably sets Hartnell up for goals just so he can get off the ice and not look at him any more.

tarheelhockey is online now  
Old
03-25-2012, 06:03 PM
  #96
OrioleWay
Jailbait
 
OrioleWay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 7,008
vCash: 500
BCC is legend, that's it. We (caniacs) are pretty lucky to have him.

OrioleWay is online now  
Old
03-25-2012, 06:09 PM
  #97
hockeyfreak7
Registered User
 
hockeyfreak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Charlottesville
Posts: 8,991
vCash: 500
It's certainly an interesting way to crunch the numbers....


But usually your stats should pass the smell test. If your stats tell you that Giroux is a sub PPG player this season, then your stats are clearly faulty.


Ultimately your analysis appears off simply because you are assuming that Scott Hartnell would be a 35 goal scorer without Claude Giroux on the ice with him. Probably your faultiest assumption.

hockeyfreak7 is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 06:12 PM
  #98
impeach estaalo
Registered User
 
impeach estaalo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Ultimately your analysis appears off simply because you are assuming that Scott Hartnell would be a 35 goal scorer without Claude Giroux on the ice with him. Probably your faultiest assumption.
Scott Hartnell scored 30 goals in 08-09. Giroux assisted on one of them.

impeach estaalo is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 06:14 PM
  #99
MJB Devils23*
No lockout!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 37,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutdown Sutter View Post
Yeah, but what about Adjusted Anton Babchuk Adjusted Points (AABAP)?
What is this I don't even???

MJB Devils23* is offline  
Old
03-25-2012, 06:17 PM
  #100
hockeyfreak7
Registered User
 
hockeyfreak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Charlottesville
Posts: 8,991
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandwagon cole canes View Post
Scott Hartnell scored 30 goals in 08-09. Giroux assisted on one of them.
So? I'm saying this season Hartnell would not be a 35 goal scorer if he wasnt playing with Giroux.

I love Hartnell, but it's true. Without Giroux, Hartnell is a 25-30 goal scorer. With Giroux he is a 35-40 goal scorer. The OP is comparing Hartnell's "with Giroux" stats and assuming they would be the same without Giroux.

It's a faulty assumption, and it doesnt only apply to Hartnell.


Basically the OP's "stats" can be used to make the case that Staal doesnt make his linemates better, and Giroux does. I'm not saying that's true, but it is just another flawed argument that could be made here.

hockeyfreak7 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:29 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.