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Another Former Player for a New Economic System

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Old
11-22-2004, 06:50 PM
  #1
djhn579
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Another Former Player for a New Economic System

Kevin Lowe will resign if there is not a new economic system. I guess he is tired of developing players to see them go to bigger markets...

''I would not do this job for another four years under what I just went through the last four years,'' Lowe told the Journal. ''It was too difficult, too difficult emotionally, spiritually, psychologically.''

In recent years, Edmonton has shipped key players like Curtis Joseph, Doug Weight, Bill Guerin and Anson Carter away for financial concerns.


http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=105558&hubName=nhl

Of course, he doesn't carry much weight anymore. He is a GM and Bettman just gave him a script to read...

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11-22-2004, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djhn579
Kevin Lowe will resign if there is not a new economic system. I guess he is tired of developing players to see them go to bigger markets...
What players has he developed only to have to see them go to bigger markets?

Mike Comrie is the only one off the top of my head and that had nothing to do with the CBA.

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11-22-2004, 07:11 PM
  #3
djhn579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
What players has he developed only to have to see them go to bigger markets?

Mike Comrie is the only one off the top of my head and that had nothing to do with the CBA.
Yeah, your right. He's only been the GM for 4 years, so I guess he couldn't really develop too many players.

How about if I said that it seems that he is tired of juggling the roster because the better players are always moving on for more money.

Regardless, it seems to have been very frustrating for him...

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11-22-2004, 07:30 PM
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"
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
What players has he developed only to have to see them go to bigger markets?

Mike Comrie is the only one off the top of my head and that had nothing to do with the CBA.
Lowe has been a terrible GM, brutal even. No significant drafting or player development or good trades in years. This is the one thing that has bugged me about this situation. Lowe has been able to get the media and fans in Edmonton to completely apologize for all his blunders by claiming they can't compete with this CBA. Rubbish!

A good gig actually if you can manage to pull it off. I understand giving a former hero to the city a break, but Lowe can say anything he wants and it's eaten up. "I'm just trying to get to 2004". Well then, there's four free years, it's not your fault Kevin. We'll just charge the lowest price for NHL tickets in the league and then claim we're just doing it for the fans. The hockey media in Edmonton won't touch this guy, and watch now how the fans will circle the wagons.

Get rid of Lowe and get a Sutter in there, someone who talks about accountability. A new CBA won't make Lowe a smart GM, that's what he's worried about.

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11-22-2004, 07:51 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
What players has he developed only to have to see them go to bigger markets?

Mike Comrie is the only one off the top of my head and that had nothing to do with the CBA.

The Mike Comrie situation had everything to do with the CBA and the NHLPA/agents exploiting another loophole in the rookie salary cap.

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11-22-2004, 09:28 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
The Mike Comrie situation had everything to do with the CBA and the NHLPA/agents exploiting another loophole in the rookie salary cap.
Really? Comrie has said that it wasn't about money. So what could it be about?

I didn't know that goalie's wives were a "loophole".

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Old
11-22-2004, 09:49 PM
  #7
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Comrie was like Yashin. If a player doesnt want to play on your team, you cant force them,. We tried with Yashin, but it isnt worth it. A CBA cant olve this problem. This CBA ensures you get reasonable compensation when your RFA's do this.

RFA salaries are set basically by agreed upon collusion. Arbitration reinforces it. If Tampa Bay signs Richards, the bar is set for all the big market teams. They have to collude to match the salary that Tampa set for Richards, or Ottawa set for Redden, or Calgary set for Iginla, or Mtl set for Theodore. The old comparables of Pronger and Kariya are long gone by the wayside already.

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11-22-2004, 09:52 PM
  #8
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Edmonton seemed to have a lot of other agreements that were all set to be renegotiated if i remember correctly their management talking about it. Arenas and tv deals and such. It seemed like they were using the cba talks as leverage to get better deals in their other things. It has already come to light that Edmonton is already one of the more profitable teams. Lowe sounds like he is a good employee of his owner speaking the party line.

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Old
11-23-2004, 12:28 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the doctor
"

Lowe has been a terrible GM, brutal even. No significant drafting or player development or good trades in years. This is the one thing that has bugged me about this situation. Lowe has been able to get the media and fans in Edmonton to completely apologize for all his blunders by claiming they can't compete with this CBA. Rubbish!

A good gig actually if you can manage to pull it off. I understand giving a former hero to the city a break, but Lowe can say anything he wants and it's eaten up. "I'm just trying to get to 2004". Well then, there's four free years, it's not your fault Kevin. We'll just charge the lowest price for NHL tickets in the league and then claim we're just doing it for the fans. The hockey media in Edmonton won't touch this guy, and watch now how the fans will circle the wagons.

Get rid of Lowe and get a Sutter in there, someone who talks about accountability. A new CBA won't make Lowe a smart GM, that's what he's worried about.

Are you kidding me? I think Kevin Lowe has done a very good job in Edmonton. Somehow he has been able to get incredible value for players that he was eventually going to lose anyways and keep the team in the playoff hunt each and every single year.

Good trades:

The Niinamaa trade got Edmonton a a great young player in Torres who scored 20 goals this year and will get 30 before too long as well as Isbister who seems like a throw in now and who is till a guy who good develop into a good power forward. I dont think its gonna happen but power forwards always seem to develop really late.

The Carter trade got Edmonton Radek Dvorak adn someone else? Anyways Dvorak is a much better player than Carter and has helped Edmonton much more than Carter has helped NYR or LA.

The Poti trade got Edmonton a great 2 way center who can also play the wing in Mike York. Edomonton had lots of good young D at the time with Brewer and Niinamaa still there so a very good trade for Lowe there as well.

Maybe you can just write 2 of those trades off and call Sather an idiot. But regardless of that, Lowe has not made any bad trades that I can think of.

He also acquired a good veteran defenceman in Staios and as far as drafting goes I think most of that responsibility lies in the hands of the scouts. But it is too early in Lowes tenure too say he hasnt developed any good prospects. And don't forget about Hemsky and the line of good young D prospects they have coming through in Bergeron , Woywitka and Lynch.

Lowe has done a great job! Not being able to keep the stars is not his fault, its either ownership or the poor economic system of the NHL. If he had different working conditions Edmonton could easily be a Western Conference power house right now.

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Old
11-23-2004, 05:25 AM
  #10
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I cant comment on his devolopment of prospects (Hemsky seems like a solid pik) but I'd have to agree with Dangler that Lowe has gotten good value in return for all of his ''big trades''

I'd personally take York and Dvorak over Carter and Poti .

The Niinimaa deal was good for both the isles and oilers IMO .

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11-23-2004, 09:03 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
Really? Comrie has said that it wasn't about money. So what could it be about?

I didn't know that goalie's wives were a "loophole".
I love when uninformed people express their opinions on subjects the know nothing of.

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Old
11-23-2004, 10:26 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
Really? Comrie has said that it wasn't about money. So what could it be about?

I didn't know that goalie's wives were a "loophole".
Was Mike caught going "five hole" ?

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Old
11-23-2004, 11:00 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangler19
The Carter trade got Edmonton Radek Dvorak adn someone else? right .

That someone else was none other than Cory Cross. Let's not froget Ales Pisa went the other way as well.

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11-23-2004, 11:03 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the doctor
"

Lowe has been a terrible GM, brutal even. No significant drafting or player development or good trades in years. This is the one thing that has bugged me about this situation. Lowe has been able to get the media and fans in Edmonton to completely apologize for all his blunders by claiming they can't compete with this CBA. Rubbish!

A good gig actually if you can manage to pull it off. I understand giving a former hero to the city a break, but Lowe can say anything he wants and it's eaten up. "I'm just trying to get to 2004". Well then, there's four free years, it's not your fault Kevin. We'll just charge the lowest price for NHL tickets in the league and then claim we're just doing it for the fans. The hockey media in Edmonton won't touch this guy, and watch now how the fans will circle the wagons.

Get rid of Lowe and get a Sutter in there, someone who talks about accountability. A new CBA won't make Lowe a smart GM, that's what he's worried about.
Obviously a Calgary fan. What is a "Sutter" going to do differently than Lowe?

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11-23-2004, 11:10 AM
  #15
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I think the Oilers would benefit from Lowe resigning even if there is a new system. He in the top 3 of the worst GM's in the NHL.

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11-23-2004, 11:38 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli_The_Don
I think the Oilers would benefit from Lowe resigning even if there is a new system. He in the top 3 of the worst GM's in the NHL.

Just out of couriosity. What is your top three list?

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Old
11-23-2004, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli_The_Don
I think the Oilers would benefit from Lowe resigning even if there is a new system. He in the top 3 of the worst GM's in the NHL.
Lowe is one of the very best GMs in the league.

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11-23-2004, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the doctor
Get rid of Lowe and get a Sutter in there, someone who talks about accountability. A new CBA won't make Lowe a smart GM, that's what he's worried about.
Yeah, because the Sutter Calgary had employed before their current Sutter iteration worked out so well...

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Old
11-23-2004, 12:12 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli_The_Don
I think the Oilers would benefit from Lowe resigning even if there is a new system. He in the top 3 of the worst GM's in the NHL.
Although I'm partial to the Oilers, and always like to watch them play, I'm not a die-hard "fan" (so I am relatively unbiased) of the team. I think you are WAY, WAY off base, and hope you can give me a couple of examples why Lowe is a bad GM.

I have liked just about every trade he's made. In several cases (Weight and Guerin), his hands were tied and I thought he did a pretty good job of getting value for impending UFA's. I think he's drafted pretty well, but that is definetely way to early to call one way or the other. Like someone said he's even had a bargain UFA signings that have worked out well (Staios), although that could be somewhat offset by the Oates debacle.

The only criticism I think you could have is the Comrie situation. IMO, it's not Lowe's fault that Comrie couldn't handle criticism in any shape or form.

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11-23-2004, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
Although I'm partial to the Oilers, and always like to watch them play, I'm not a die-hard "fan" (so I am relatively unbiased) of the team. I think you are WAY, WAY off base, and hope you can give me a couple of examples why Lowe is a bad GM.

I have liked just about every trade he's made. In several cases (Weight and Guerin), his hands were tied and I thought he did a pretty good job of getting value for impending UFA's. I think he's drafted pretty well, but that is definetely way to early to call one way or the other. Like someone said he's even had a bargain UFA signings that have worked out well (Staios), although that could be somewhat offset by the Oates debacle.

The only criticism I think you could have is the Comrie situation. IMO, it's not Lowe's fault that Comrie couldn't handle criticism in any shape or form.
I think its pretty clear that in just about every case he's done a very good job of getting good value in situations where his hands were pretty much tied. This is something man other GMS around the league in similar situations have not been able to do.

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11-23-2004, 12:25 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windowlicker
I love when uninformed people express their opinions on subjects the know nothing of.
All I did was a google search on the terms Comrie, Salo and wife.

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11-23-2004, 01:00 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangler19
Are you kidding me? I think Kevin Lowe has done a very good job in Edmonton. Somehow he has been able to get incredible value for players that he was eventually going to lose anyways and keep the team in the playoff hunt each and every single year.

Good trades:

The Niinamaa trade got Edmonton a a great young player in Torres who scored 20 goals this year and will get 30 before too long as well as Isbister who seems like a throw in now and who is till a guy who good develop into a good power forward. I dont think its gonna happen but power forwards always seem to develop really late.

The Carter trade got Edmonton Radek Dvorak adn someone else? Anyways Dvorak is a much better player than Carter and has helped Edmonton much more than Carter has helped NYR or LA.

The Poti trade got Edmonton a great 2 way center who can also play the wing in Mike York. Edomonton had lots of good young D at the time with Brewer and Niinamaa still there so a very good trade for Lowe there as well.

Maybe you can just write 2 of those trades off and call Sather an idiot. But regardless of that, Lowe has not made any bad trades that I can think of.

He also acquired a good veteran defenceman in Staios and as far as drafting goes I think most of that responsibility lies in the hands of the scouts. But it is too early in Lowes tenure too say he hasnt developed any good prospects. And don't forget about Hemsky and the line of good young D prospects they have coming through in Bergeron , Woywitka and Lynch.

Lowe has done a great job! Not being able to keep the stars is not his fault, its either ownership or the poor economic system of the NHL. If he had different working conditions Edmonton could easily be a Western Conference power house right now.
so if trading those players were good moves for EDM, how would being able to afford to not trade them helped them be better ?

I mean if he cant afford Poti, but lands up with a better asset in Mike York, why are we feeling sorry for EDM ?

DR

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11-23-2004, 01:11 PM
  #23
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The reason Lowe gets a bad rap most times is because he signed Tommy Salo to that terrible long term deal. It was a knee jerk reaction, as he had no backout to force Salo to hold out and eventually be reasonable with the terms, however; that was not the case, and that signing haunted Edmonton for nearly 4 years.

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11-23-2004, 01:20 PM
  #24
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I think Lowe has done a decent job. Until the Oilers start producing some talent, he can't do much except turn veterans into young players. That has nothing to do with money. It is the only choice. I didn't like the decision to trade Hecht, but I defended the Carter trade against bitter Oiler fans. They also boohooed about Hamrlik and that one was a real winner.

The only real complaint anybody can have about Lowe is the whining he did with every trade. Instead of explaining them in hockey terms, he mewled and complained about money. This wouldn't have been all that terrible - all hockey people present ridiculous excuses to cover their mistakes - except the fans bought the crocodile tears and we have had to listen to them echo the cries.

The team makes money!

''I would not do this job for another four years under what I just went through the last four years,'' Lowe told the Journal. ''It was too difficult, too difficult emotionally, spiritually, psychologically.''

Well, how was the paycheque, Kevin? "Oh, boohoo. The job of an NHL GM is hard! There is too much pressure in a job that only pays a million or so a year. Poor little old me."

What a wuss.

Tom

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11-23-2004, 01:22 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
All I did was a google search on the terms Comrie, Salo and wife.
Right, and get a bunch of hits to other forums where people chose to post unsubstantiated rumors.

Its libel, and its not allowed on these boards.

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