i think the word "Patience" is being used to loosely 7 frggin years how much more patient do us fans have to be
And 4 years ago everyone was on board for a rebuild! If you weren't then you likely shoudl've jumped ship!
There was not even remotely close to this opposition when the rebuild was suggested, Burke was hired and the rebuild began! Anyone with a brain in there head must've figured it would be a while!
Now everyone pisses themselves because the team missied the playoffs?? Wow! Get over it! The VAAAAAST majority were on board now the vaast majoriyt are *****ing out cause for a quarter of the season things got rough! What a disgrace this fanbase has become! We call out tehheart of the team while we can't even hodl out for something we demanded! Embarassing!
The relevance is that you stated that the Leafs had not won since Colour TV had been invented....
You were wrong, a simply acknowledgment of this would be sufficient.
You are right though, it had zero relevance to the original topic when you brought it up!
You're nit picking dude. The point is the franchise has had no sustainable success since the days of black and white TV. Wanna split hairs over the exact time and date? fill your boots, but it has nothing to do with the original comment made before you derailed the discussion playing Cliff Clavin.
Calling the team the 2nd most successful in the league as the original respondent did, is incredibly misleading, when the trend has been downward since the season the league began broadcasting in colour.
Play the old man card as you see fit; the point is your comment does nothing to dispel or address the subject matter as I presented it. The Leafs are not a successful franchise. It has been in disarray longer than most of those reading this post have had their arses pointing south.
The Burke administration is the first to actually be comprised of legit hockey personnel. Dryden was a flop. Stavro had no more hockey sense than Ballard or Peddie. Quinn dismantled the prospect pool in an attempt to win a cup. Mike Smith, Gord Stellick, Punch Imlach, etc. all screwed the fans and organization at every turn, either intentionally or otherwise. Only Cliff Fletcher had any business running the show. And his tenure was cut short.
Ballard's arrogance and bumbling was the ONLY thing standing between a Scotty Bowman/Don cherry GM/ coach tandem. Imagine how differently the Leafs history would look today had Ballard treated them with due respect.
This is the most stable the front office has been as long as I have been alive. And that was the point of my comment. Your attempt to derail the discussion with trivialities proves nothing.
You're nit picking dude. The point is the franchise has had no sustainable success since the days of black and white TV. Wanna split hairs over the exact time and date? fill your boots, but it has nothing to do with the original comment made before you derailed the discussion playing Cliff Clavin.
(...)
Your attempt to derail the discussion with trivialities proves nothing.
But were you wrong?
I know, it takes a big man to admit it, but were you?
And 4 years ago everyone was on board for a rebuild! If you weren't then you likely shoudl've jumped ship!
There was not even remotely close to this opposition when the rebuild was suggested, Burke was hired and the rebuild began! Anyone with a brain in there head must've figured it would be a while!
Now everyone pisses themselves because the team missied the playoffs?? Wow! Get over it! The VAAAAAST majority were on board now the vaast majoriyt are *****ing out cause for a quarter of the season things got rough! What a disgrace this fanbase has become! We call out tehheart of the team while we can't even hodl out for something we demanded! Embarassing!
The problem is that this team is heading no where. If we had rebuilt properly we'd be watching 4 top 5 picks developing. We'd actually have a future. This team looks like it will be dismantled once players like kessel, lupul, phaneuf, etc all leave because this team is crap. We weren't supposed to miss the playoffs this year and that's another reason why a lot of people are mad. Now we just hope that we tank properly for once and don't draft a bust.
I agree with your assessment except that I have absolutely zero faith in Reimer as our goalie. I think we should do what it takes to bring in a young, good goalie like Bernier, Schneider or Lindback. If we take care of the most important position in hockey - goaltending - then, as you have shown, the rest of our team is decent enough to develop into something OK (i.e. 8th place in the East, knocked out in 5 games in first round).
Wow – this has gotten kind of personal, lol. Let me explain myself for the offended parties.
Firstly – I do apologize to anyone who is offended by my use of the term “Whiners”. I generally try to avoid any type of attack on these boards, and it was used out of frustration.
I can understand people being frustrated with the Leafs, as although I am an optimist, I do care about the team, I do desire its success, and its just as frustrating for us optimists watching other teams play meaningful games in the Spring.
I do not, however, blame the current management for the failures of past regimes, and I do see an organization that is doing many of the things I’ve wanted to see for a long, long time. We can’t change the past, but only assess the present, and seek signs of what is to come in the future.
For background – no, I do not work for the Leafs (although I’d love to, of course, lol) grew up with a passion for the game, but not nearly enough talent to play at any level beyond my High School team. My youthful aspirations were to become a coach, and so I read everything I could get my hands on, analyzed plays, had a notebook where I developed systems, etc. Growing up one of my best friends was a goalie, and played 11 seasons in the NHL. During his younger, junior, and even minor league days, he and I would spend hours breaking down games together. I spent a lot of time around other guys who played in the NHL (who I met through my friend), talking the finer points of the game. My point here is that I am not a casual fan who bases all my opinions on what I read online – but I am also in no way suggesting that I know more or less than anyone else on these boards.
As to my “expectations” – well I will admit they have changed slightly. I was hoping for an earlier turn around, but I think it was sometime last year that even Burke said it was taking longer than expected. The league has changed, trades are harder to make, and the UFA Market has gotten nuts. As of last year, my expectations were to squeak into the playoffs this year, and make it assuredly next year. Well that doesn’t change – just because we didn’t make it this year – I still expect the same progress to be made for next year. As I’ve stated, if we don’t make it again, then I will concede.
And yes Stephen – I had hopes for Stalberg, Tlusty, Bozak, and Hanson. Hanson didn’t develop his physical play like I had hoped, but the other 3 are all making solid contributions to their respective teams. I would say 3 out of 4 isn’t bad.
As to my frustration which led me to use the term “whiners” – well, I enjoy these boards, and I love debating hockey. These boards lately, however, have seem to become a dumping ground of negativity. I don’t mean to offend by using the term “whiners”, just I’m sure you don’t when you call optimists “Burke Apologists” among other things.
I have no problem with people fed up with the organization – and I love people having a different view point – as that is the basis of a good discussion. The problem I have is the complete and baseless negativity of people who position their arguments as though every single thing about the organization is crap, and every single move Burke has made is garbage. I find myself writing more positively than I feel in compensation of the huge amount of negativity.
I have never actually seen (although it may have happened) an optimist state that they agree with EVERY move Burke has made. I don’t. I will admit we lost the Kessel trade, but to see all the posts making it out like we traded the 2nd overall pick for a 36 year old plug is silly. When we read post after post where now people are actually claiming that Brett Lebda and Robert Slaney are better assets than Franson and Lombardi, I have to just shake my head. I read posts from people who complain about contracts like they are personally paying for them, and then see the same people suggest Burke should be fired for not signing 12 year deals that would see us with a $6million cap hit well past the player’s prime. When people are saying the Team with Stajan and Antropov as our top players is better than one with Kessel and Lupul – I just don’t know what to say. There are so many negative arguments that don't seem to based on anything other than an opportunity to bash Burke or the team.
You don’t have to like Burke. You can complain all you want about a sentence he said 3.5 years ago. You may not like the way the organization is going – and that’s cool. But all I’m asking is can we at least get back to reasonable discussions? Sure the team has needs. Sure there is a ways to go, but are the people who are calling for Burkes head really saying that NOTHING has improved in the past 3 years? That there has not been a single good move? I've heard how the Prospect pool hasn't improved, the organization hasn't improved, the Marlies season means nothing, and the talent of the Team is worse. Seriously???
