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Was Dougie Gilmour ever the best?

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Old
02-16-2013, 07:08 PM
  #1
skroonk2002*
 
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Was Dougie Gilmour ever the best?

Don Cherry said he was the best player in the world.


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02-16-2013, 07:09 PM
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Smokey McCanucks
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In OT of that playoff game against the Blues he was definitely the best.

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02-16-2013, 07:09 PM
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Hurt
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No. He was around in an era where there were so many dominant players that he may not even have been top 10 in his prime.

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02-16-2013, 07:10 PM
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Pi
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Not sure about his claim but a 127 point Selke winner with the Leafs + two legendary playoff runs.

35 points in 21 games, 28 points in 18 games B2B.

Recent years, only Malkin comes close with his 36 points in 24 playoff games.

There were way too many good players then..

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02-16-2013, 07:10 PM
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beauchamp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skroonk2002 View Post
Don Cherry said he was the best player in the world.
Don Cherry, you said?

There's your answer...

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02-16-2013, 07:11 PM
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MadLuke
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Because Mario Lemieux was not playing the best was not that definitive for a while (before Hasek and Jagr took the title).

Lot of good player, Ray Bourque, Federov, Gilmour, Yzerman, Lafontaine, Lindros, etc... Gilmour was in the conversation with Gretzky and Patrick Roy circa 1993-94 I presume.

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02-16-2013, 07:14 PM
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tml145
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maybe not the best

but there were so many great players

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02-16-2013, 07:48 PM
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lol no

cherry thinks all leaf players were the best

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02-16-2013, 07:52 PM
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Regal
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He was definitely among the best for that two season stretch from '92-'94. With injuries and inconsistency among some of the other guys at the top, you could make an argument that his combined regular seasons and playoffs were better than anyone else's during that period.

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02-16-2013, 07:55 PM
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not even close

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02-16-2013, 07:56 PM
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Evincar
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No shame in being the 3rd best player after Mario and Wayne between 92-94.

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02-16-2013, 07:57 PM
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TOML
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Jesus, didn't Don Cherry think the same thing about Tie Domi?


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02-16-2013, 08:00 PM
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Patty Roy
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Gilmour was certainly a top 10 player during the 92/93-93/94 seasons but at no point was he ever considered the best player in the world.

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02-16-2013, 08:09 PM
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pdd
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Gilmour was one of the better centers in the league at the time.

But it's worth noting that while he received the odd Selke vote here and there, he never received more than a few votes in a season outside of 1992-93 and 1993-94. In those two seasons he finished first and then second in Selke voting.

And the major difference between those seasons and his other seasons? He scored significantly more points.

But he didn't do it at even strength. He did it on the power play. He scored even-strength points at a comparable rate per-game in 93-94 and 92-93 as he had been doing the previous couple of seasons. His sudden explosion on the PP, interestingly coinciding with the arrival of scorer and PP specialist Dave Andreychuk, would drive him from "by the way, this guy also got a vote" to "Winnah!" when it came to the Selke.

That clip is from the 1992-93 season. Here are some ES numbers for Gilmour's peak - that season and the following year (1993-94). I should note that this isn't a complete list of scoring leaders, so there may be players ranked above Gilmour in ES scoring that are not listed here.

YearPlayerPosGPESPESPPG
1992-93Mario LemieuxC60961.60
1992-93Steve YzermanC84871.04
1992-93Alexander MogilnyR77791.03
1992-93Pat LaFontaineC84830.99
1992-93Teemu SelanneR84830.99
1992-93Kevin StevensL72670.93
1992-93Adam OatesC84780.93
1992-93Luc RobitailleL84760.90
1992-93Jaromir JagrR81710.88
1992-93Wayne GretzkyC45380.84
1992-93Pavel BureR83680.82
1992-93Joe JuneauL84650.77
1992-93Mark MessierC75570.76
1992-93Doug GilmourC83630.76
1992-93Mats SundinC80580.73
1992-93Joe SakicC78550.71
1992-93Dave Andreychuk (TOR)L31210.68
1992-93Sergei FedorovC73470.64
1992-93Dave Andreychuk (BUF)L52240.46
YearPlayerPosGPESPESPPG
1993-94Eric LindrosC65671.03
1993-94Mario LemieuxC22221.00
1993-94Sergei FedorovC82810.99
1993-94Cam NeelyR49470.96
1993-94Steve YzermanC58520.90
1993-94Jaromir JagrR80700.88
1993-94Adam OatesC77620.81
1993-94Wayne GretzkyC81620.77
1993-94Pavel BureR76580.76
1993-94Doug GilmourC83600.72
1993-94Keith PrimeauL78530.68
1993-94Joe SakicC84570.68
1993-94Ron FrancisC82520.63
1993-94Mats SundinC84530.63
1993-94Dave AndreychukL83500.60
1993-94Mark MessierC76390.51

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02-16-2013, 08:11 PM
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Qward
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He is in the HHOF so there is no doubt of his talent, but he was not the best.

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02-16-2013, 08:12 PM
  #16
pdd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Litework View Post
No shame in being the 3rd best player after Mario and Wayne between 92-94.
Yeah, but Gilmour was closer to the 10th best player.

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02-16-2013, 08:13 PM
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He was some kind of animal. HOLY COW!

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02-16-2013, 08:13 PM
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massivegoonery
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
Don Cherry, you said?

There's your answer...
Good trumpet player, though.

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02-16-2013, 08:16 PM
  #19
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He was the best player on the Leafs. Does that count?

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02-16-2013, 08:25 PM
  #20
Semantics
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadLuke View Post
Because Mario Lemieux was not playing the best was not that definitive for a while (before Hasek and Jagr took the title).
When that clip was recorded, Lemieux had just come back from mid-season cancer treatment and finished with 69 goals/160 points in 60 games to win the Art Ross. He may well have broken a Gretzky record or two if he hadn't had cancer. And that was coming off back to back Stanley Cup and Conn Smythe performances. I don't think there was any question or lack of definition in who was the best player in the world at the time. Gilmour may have been the best player *playing* though, as the Penguins had been upset in the first round by the Islanders.

As an aside, Ron looks so young in that clip. Weird to think that Cherry was only in his 50's at the time.

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02-16-2013, 08:34 PM
  #21
fly4apuckguy
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First, I am not a big Leafs fan or anything.

But even less than that am I a fan of flippant remarks about Doug Gilmour by a bunch of people who were either in diapers when he was at his peak in Toronto or who were too focused on their own team to see what they guy was doing in TO.

Let's not say he was the best player in the NHL at the time, but he may have been the gutsiest. The guy had no reachable pain threshold, was an outstanding leader, and one of the best captains in Leaf history.

Show him some respect.

Again, the HF boards prove that they can only check wikipedia, get the numbers, and decide where he stood in terms of ranking that way.

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02-16-2013, 08:46 PM
  #22
Pacem
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I dunno, tough to say. Gilmour and Gary Leeman were pretty equal....

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02-16-2013, 08:53 PM
  #23
Eisen
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He had that claim for a post-season. He wasn't the best in the regular season but that one playoff run made him the best at the moment. I don't think it's wrong to say that.

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02-16-2013, 08:54 PM
  #24
ProstheticConscience
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Don Cherry says a lot of things.

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02-16-2013, 08:57 PM
  #25
clefty
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Cherry also said that a 20 year old Jaromir Jagr wouldn't amount to anything and that he "doesn't know how to play the game."

Then Ron MacLean gave him a Jagr t-shirt, and Cherry looked like he was about to storm off the set.

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