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Top Prospects 11-25 (2 Rangers In it)

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Old
11-16-2004, 05:13 PM
  #1
FLYLine24
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Top Prospects 11-25 (2 Rangers In it)

20. Al Montoya
16. Fedor Tyutin

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...readed&order=0

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11-16-2004, 05:53 PM
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So that means Balej def. wont make it...i didn't expect him to be above 30-40 if anything. What do you guys think about the rankings?

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11-16-2004, 05:56 PM
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I think Lundqvist is a glaring omission, but I heard that these rankings did not include the beginning of this season.

Still, I seriously believe Lundqvist is the most underrated prospect in the league, but that may just be homerism.

Hopefully he'll come over soon and prove the "experts" wrong.

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11-16-2004, 06:10 PM
  #4
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjb3599
I think Lundqvist is a glaring omission, but I heard that these rankings did not include the beginning of this season.

Still, I seriously believe Lundqvist is the most underrated prospect in the league, but that may just be homerism.

Hopefully he'll come over soon and prove the "experts" wrong.
Isn't it possible Lundqvist is in the Top 10? If not and Lundqvist is not in the top 50 or, in my eyes, the top 20, after all he has done in the SEL and International competition by the age of 22, it totally invalidates the entire rankings...If he is not in the top 10, that means they have EIGHT goaltenders ranked ahead of him in Nittymaki, Schwarz, Miller, Drouin-Des, Emery, Toivonen, Montoya and Oulette...That would be utterley laughable...

ANd "the beginning of the season" arguement wouln't hold any water with me...Lundqvist is just doing right now what he has been doing the past two years----being the best goalie in the SEL and excelling against top notch international players...Plus, there's such a thing as an errata or just a plain old update

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11-16-2004, 06:45 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjb3599
I think Lundqvist is a glaring omission, but I heard that these rankings did not include the beginning of this season.

Still, I seriously believe Lundqvist is the most underrated prospect in the league, but that may just be homerism.

Hopefully he'll come over soon and prove the "experts" wrong.

Get ready for someone to say "He hasn't played on north american ice yet." Oh wait, i just said it...so no one else will now...

Lundquist is underrated, i cant wait to see him over in NA.

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11-16-2004, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
Isn't it possible Lundqvist is in the Top 10?
Not really, not unless one of these guys got clipped from the top 50..

1. Ovechkin
2. Lehtonen
3. Malkin
4. MA Fleury
5. Zherdev
6. Phaneuf
7. Horton
8. Suter
9. Michalek
10. Vanek

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Old
11-16-2004, 07:03 PM
  #7
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby
Not really, not unless one of these guys got clipped from the top 50..

1. Ovechkin
2. Lehtonen
3. Malkin
4. MA Fleury
5. Zherdev
6. Phaneuf
7. Horton
8. Suter
9. Michalek
10. Vanek
Right you are......Then these guys are absolutley clueless in regards to Lundqvist....I can see Lehtonen and probably Fleury as goalies before Lundqvist, but Lundqvist should clearly be ranked above some (all in my opinion) of the rest, including Montoya..Who is ranked higher why? because he's played for the freaking Michigan WOlverines?

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11-16-2004, 07:37 PM
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Look here - Buffaloed has answered some questions about Lundqvist.

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11-16-2004, 07:40 PM
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He makes a good point, and a point made by many others... I have no doubt that that's the reason HF didnt have him in the top 50...I also agree that goaltenders should have a seperate list from skaters.

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11-16-2004, 08:34 PM
  #10
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lundqvist isn't on there because the list is a combination of the most hyped prospects over the last 3 or so drafts, lundqvist wasn't highly touted in his draft so he isn't a factor...same reason nigel dawes gets no respect either (not saying he should be on the list, but he is better then people give him credit for)

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11-16-2004, 09:06 PM
  #11
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Get ready for someone to say "He hasn't played on north american ice yet." Oh wait, i just said it...so no one else will now...
ovechkin hasn't played on north american ice either but he's probably gonna be ranked as the top prospect

difficult comparison i know but i think it's kind of a cop out to knock lundqvist down for not playing in NA when you have other guys on the list who haven't played in NA.

i mean, schwarz is on the list for his play in europe...but he had more hype

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11-16-2004, 09:44 PM
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Alot of people use the age argument, claiming that Lundqvist has topped out at 22. Maybe they could explain to me why Maxime Ouellet is on the list then. Even if Lundqvist has come close to topping out (which I doubt), he'd still make a solid NHLer, particularly with Allaire's help. Lundqvist has the reflexes that you just can't teach. Positioning, however, which changes on NA ice can be taught, easily.

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11-16-2004, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate
ovechkin hasn't played on north american ice either but he's probably gonna be ranked as the top prospect

difficult comparison i know but i think it's kind of a cop out to knock lundqvist down for not playing in NA when you have other guys on the list who haven't played in NA.

i mean, schwarz is on the list for his play in europe...but he had more hype
Obviously its tough to compare a skater to a goalie...

but yeah, i agree with you, it is kinda a cop out.

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11-16-2004, 10:59 PM
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FLYLine24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate
ovechkin hasn't played on north american ice either but he's probably gonna be ranked as the top prospect

Cough..World Cup

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Old
11-16-2004, 11:55 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balej20
So that means Balej def. wont make it...i didn't expect him to be above 30-40 if anything. What do you guys think about the rankings?
the rankings are a joke, basically just hype and homerism. What has Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers done to be in the top 40? Why does the top 10 feature a player who is still out with 2 serious injuries to the same knee after missing entire season?


Last edited by Prucha73: 11-17-2004 at 12:15 AM.
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Old
11-17-2004, 12:09 AM
  #16
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The rankings are a joke. Ive always said they were..if the staff went out to watch these prospects or view them all on the screen and study them more THEN i would take them serious but they arn't. Thats y i hate people who take them so serious. Its ALL assumptions. Look at this list in 15 years and it will all be a hit or miss if they were as good as they were predicted.

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Old
11-17-2004, 03:47 AM
  #17
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If you take all the goalies in the list, the first thing you should notice is that not one of them isn't currently playing in North America, and of them, only Schwartz wasn't playing here last season. Other than that, it's a conservative selection of only NA-proven goalies.

The second thing to notice is that all the goalies on the list, with the exceptions of Schwartz, Montoya, and possibly Toivonen (due to Raycroft's youth) are virtually *guaranteed* to at least play in the NHL when (if) the league starts up again. There is still no such guarantee with Lundqvist.

Ludqvist has a mountain of talent, that is for sure, but there remains the possibility that it won't translate to the NHL. If he can translate his game to the NHL, then there's no-one on that list who's name isn't Kari whom I'd take over him.

In the meantime, I am more than happy for Lundqvist to fly along under the radar and take everyone by surprise when he doess come over.

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Old
11-17-2004, 09:15 AM
  #18
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Ludqvist has a mountain of talent, that is for sure, but there remains the possibility that it won't translate to the NHL. If he can translate his game to the NHL, then there's no-one on that list who's name isn't Kari whom I'd take over him.
i'd be much more inclined to agree with this in general except lundqvist has proven he can stop NHL stars. top scorers and all...to me the ability to do that is more of a concern than ice size and all of that. if he was just playing the usual SEL players and doing well, hey that's great but i'd be worried about how he'd do facing NHL shooters. but, like i said, he's faced NHL shooters too and excelled. soooo, i think that's a big test that he's passed.

i'm sure lots of reasons can be come up with to justify not including lundqvist, some of them pretty good, but i still think it really comes down to him being a late round pick and having no hype whatsoever.

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11-17-2004, 10:58 AM
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Larry Melnyk
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It's one thing to have some concerns whether Lundqvist's GREATNESS in the SEL and in International play (and greatness isn't a stretch) will translate to the NHL when he will be playing NHL players (I thought he was already) and on NHL rinks (aren't they changing or thinking of changing the area around and behind the goal as well as what a goalie can do?) and because of those concerns rrank other goalies ahead of him, but to not have him in the Top 50 is purely assinine.....BTW, I just looked at Lundqvist's stats in the SEL (you know, the league where jokers like this guy Forsberg are playing) and he has a GAA of 1.71 with a SPCT of .940...Only Kirpusoff ( I wonder if he will ever make it in the NHL) comes close...And funny that those stats are eerily similar to the two games he just played in Karajla Cup against more NHL players...


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Old
11-17-2004, 02:44 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007
Ludqvist has a mountain of talent, that is for sure, but there remains the possibility that it won't translate to the NHL. If he can translate his game to the NHL, then there's no-one on that list who's name isn't Kari whom I'd take over him.
That potential alone should've put him in the top 50. I dont think that just because he has yet to pass that "great hurdle" of adjusting to the North American ice (which IMO is overblown anyway), he should automatically be excluded from the top 50. Or maybe the people who made up the list are just wary of Swedish goalies because very few have lived up to their hype lately (Salo, Tellqvist, etc.). I dont know. But if that were to be true, its ridiculous since players should be judged by their abilities and work ethic, not their nationalities.

Either way, I agree with you...When Lundqvist comes over and proves all these people wrong and becomes an elite goaltender for the Rangers, it'll feel so much better knowing that so many people doubted him.

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Old
11-18-2004, 04:48 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr4life5186
That potential alone should've put him in the top 50. I dont think that just because he has yet to pass that "great hurdle" of adjusting to the North American ice (which IMO is overblown anyway), he should automatically be excluded from the top 50.
I'm very much inclined to agree with you. Lundqvist, it seems, has the potential to be as good or better than any goalie on that list (with the plausible exception of Kari Lehtonen, but then, I'm a huge Lehtonen fan -- a Roy-like tallent, if you ask me). I'm much happier with Lundqvist in the system than Ouellet or Niittymäki.

I understand the reasoning of ranking those two (and others) above Lundqvist. They are both definitely going to play for their NHL teams, thus they're going to be much more successful prospects than 80% of the rest. It would have been more fun if the HF writers had made individual lists of the *best* prospects, as opposed to a consensus list, which will invariably give you a list of the *safest* prospects.

It's a great list, it's great to read, and nice to have. I wouldn't be at all surprised, though, if someone who's not on the list ends up leapfrogging all of them (except maybe Lehtonen and Ovechkin) within a couple of years. I'm sure that we're not the only fans who feel one of our team's prospects got ridiculously short-changed.


Last edited by 007: 11-18-2004 at 05:00 AM.
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Old
11-18-2004, 04:59 AM
  #22
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Oh, and one thing about international competitions as a benchmark for NHL success:

Jarmo Myllys (the guy who made me a hockey fan in the first place) was a god playing for Finland in international competition. He is also a legend in the SEL.

His NHL career was brief and ugly.

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Old
11-18-2004, 06:45 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007
Oh, and one thing about international competitions as a benchmark for NHL success:

Jarmo Myllys (the guy who made me a hockey fan in the first place) was a god playing for Finland in international competition. He is also a legend in the SEL.

His NHL career was brief and ugly.
Sweden hasn´t produced any good goaltender since Pelle Lindberg. But I don´t think that has to do with the SEL. Goaltending has changed allot the last 10-15 years and Canada and Qubeck lead the way. If you look at the late 90´s there was only two prominent european goaltenders in the NHL, Khabibulin and Hasek. How many are their today?

If you look at sv% there was 5 europeans in the top 10 in 04´. Goalie trainers today has the exact same philosofy in Finland and Sweden as they have in Qubeck, its only about finding the talent. That wasn´t the case 15 years ago.

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Old
11-21-2004, 08:51 PM
  #24
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[QUOTE=sjb3599]Still, I seriously believe Lundqvist is the most underrated prospect in the league, but that may just be homerism.
[QUOTE]
Its not Homerism its the truth, he is the best goalie in Europe as of now.Thats a fact

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