Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
To Toronto
C.Schneider
M.Raymond
To Vancouver
N.Kadri,or J.Colborne
1st 2012
Conditional 1st 2013(if leafs make the playoffs next year)
Thoughts?
Way, way, way too much. Schneider is a good young goalie for sure, but he's not going to get you a top 5ish pick (2012 Leafs 1st, would be 6th overall currently), Kadri (a 7th overall pick who has developed decently well) and a conditional 1st, that's insanity. As for Raymond, we have zero need for him, we're already chock full of better wingers like Kessel, Lupul, Kulemin and MacArthur.
If the Leafs and Nucks make a Schneider trade, I think the main piece the Leafs would give up would be a current roster dman. Either Schenn roughly straight up for Schneider, or if the Nucks would prefer a more offensive dman, then someone like Liles or Franson with some sweetener (think a prospect along the lines of Brad Ross). Obviously this would be contingent on the Nucks moving Ballard for a bag of pucks in the offseason, which I think is quite possible. Some Nucks fans might see this as a low ball, but you're really not gonna get much better value than that.
You know, Fleury and Schneider are actually just one one year apart in age.
but if we take a look at their career:
Fleury (27yo) 429gp, 69 in playoff, 6 season as a starter, a stanley cup. At every step of his career he faced greater opposition than Schneider. at 21yo Fleury was a NHL starter
Schneider (26yo) 64gp 2 season as a backup. At 21yo, he was writing himself a dominant pedigree by playing against kid in college, then as a AHL backup.
If at the end of their career you expect Schneider to be the best of the two, i must say Fleury have one of a hell of a head start.
while everything in this statement is true, its not fair to Schneider because he is playing behind luongo. If Schneider was on a team where it was actually realistic to take over the starting job he may have already, i am not saying he would have better or worse numbers than Fluery. Just that with Luongo as your number one, you dont really have to let you stud goalie prospect turn into a starter. If he was on say Tampa or Edm or some team without a Top 10 goalie in the league, i think schneider would have been their number one for atleast 2 years now if he was traded or drafted to any of those teams
where does the uncertainly lie? With Schnieder who has 64 games over 4 seasons with .926 save percentage and 2.3 GAA. 2.04 GAA this year on a team that has been slumping in the new year. Or is it Kadri who played 51 games with 19 pts? yes the potential is there but it has not been seen anywhere close to consistantly. Or Colborne who has played 10 NHL games which is the complete opposite of proven. Also, even a top 5 pick is risky and there are no sure at Torontos first round pick.
Schnider post 64games in 4 diff season, how is that proven??? Give him a full season and than were talking.. I could of said the same thing for Reimer last year, and over valued him but i didn't, cause he only played so many games that you can't even say if hes a proven num 1 goalie or not... Id rather just keep our first,colborne and play Reimer who has good potential than trade our prospect pool for an unproven goalie Schnider.
If Schnider was better than Fleury,Lou, like one of your fellow canuck fans said so, why not just keep him?? lol...
I wouldn't do Gardiner or the first ALONE for Luongo or both of them lol.. Leafs are in a retool/rebuild mode, why in the hell do we need to trade our top player and a potential top prospect for an old goalie ???
I wouldn't do Gardiner or the first ALONE for Luongo or both of them lol.. Leafs are in a retool/rebuild mode, why in the hell do we need to trade our top player and a potential top prospect for an old goalie ???
Luongo would get you into the playoffs thou, you would need a good backup goalie who can win in the playoffs to win the cup thou
I wonder where did disappear all these talk about Edler being good enough to get Norris vote, about Ballard being easily a top 4 on many team, and Kesler winning the Selke trophy (the National Hockey League forward who demonstrates the most skill in the defensive component of the game.) Burrows being a top penalty killer!
I dont watch so many Vancouver game, i prefer to refer to Vancouver fans judgement who told me how Edler was going to be a future Norris candidate and probably the best defenseman the franchise ever had. Vancouver fans told me Kesler wasnt overated, The Selke trophy was the ultimate proof about how good a defensive player he is. I have ear a lot of praise about Burrow on the PK.
So either Vancouver defense have great component, or either some of Kesler, Edler and Ballard, Burrows are overrated and Vancouver defense is indeed not that great.
while everything in this statement is true, its not fair to Schneider because he is playing behind luongo. If Schneider was on a team where it was actually realistic to take over the starting job he may have already, i am not saying he would have better or worse numbers than Fluery. Just that with Luongo as your number one, you dont really have to let you stud goalie prospect turn into a starter. If he was on say Tampa or Edm or some team without a Top 10 goalie in the league, i think schneider would have been their number one for atleast 2 years now if he was traded or drafted to any of those teams
Schneider was in Vancouver organization before Luongo was there.
Why Pittburgs didnt acquire Luongo? They had Fleury
Why Montreal didnt acquire Luongo? They had Price in the farm.
Why did Vancouver acquire Luongo? Schneider was nowhere ready to play in the NHL.
Why did Vancouver resigned Luongo forever ? Vancouver didnt thought Schneider on a cheap contract was a better alternative to an expensive Luongo.
Take Halak for Example, he was a 9th round choice, Behind Theodore (Vezina and hart winner), Huet, Price (a generational talent according to some scout). And he found his way to become a NHL starter at 25yo.
The leafs 2 greatest needs are a 1st line center and consistent goaltending. Schneider would probably offer consistent goaltending. But getting a young #1 center is and must be the Leafs #1 priority. And that is going to come at a very high cost, whether it be our 1st this off season, or combining our 1st with a prospect to get into the top 3-5 of the draft.
So rather than moving our best shot at a #1 center (our draft pick +/or a prospect like Kadri or Colborne) for a goalie, I'd rather focus on getting our #1 center with that pick (moving up if we need to) and try to acquire our goalie another way. We saw goalies like Elliot who were acquired for nothing and gave the blues stellar goaltending.
While I'd love to add Schneider, I don't feel comfortable giving up the package requested to get him, not because I don't want Schneider, but because I think a #1 line center (even if it is Faska) is a much higher need and we need our 1st to get one.
I wonder where did disappear all these talk about Edler being good enough to get Norris vote, about Ballard being easily a top 4 on many team, and Kesler winning the Selke trophy (the National Hockey League forward who demonstrates the most skill in the defensive component of the game.)
I dont watch so many Vancouver game, i prefer to refer to Vancouver fans judgement who told me how Edler was going to be a future Norris candidate and probably the best defenseman the franchise ever had. Vancouver fans told me Kesler wasnt overated, The Selke trophy was the ultimate proof about how good a defensive player he is.
So either Vancouver defense have great component, or either Kesler, Edler and Ballard are overrated and Vancouver defense is indeed not that great.
Just make your mind.
So 3 players makes a great defensive team? It has nothing to do with the individuals, but the sum of all parts. The stats show that. The Canucks have some great defensive players no doubt, but as a team their defense isn't great. Its a product of the open, offensive system that they play. And you can't play that system successfully if you don't have strong goaltending.
Schneider was in Vancouver organization before Luongo was there.
Why Pittburgs didnt acquire Luongo? They had Fleury
Why Montreal didnt acquire Luongo? They had Price in the farm, they also cleared everyone in Price way.
Why did Vancouver acquire Luongo? Schneider was nowhere ready to play in the NHL.
Why did Vancouver resigned Luongo forever ? Vancouver didnt thought Schneider on a cheap contract was a better alternative to an expensive Luongo.
Fluery was 22 when he started consistantly for Pittsburg,
Schneider turned 26 like a week ago, so im saying on a desperate team for a goalie, like Pittsburg was, Schneider could have started consistantly. Again i am not comparing the two goalies skills, Schneider has a lot to prove to be in the same tier as Fleury for sure, is his potential even high enough to get to Fleury, not sure, but there was no opertunity for Schneider to take a starting role and really show what he can do yet. he is putting up better stats then Luongo this year. I think Vancouver ought to give Schneider the starting role next year, and when he fleurishes (pun intended) they should trade Luongo at the deadline, God knows they dont need Luongo for the playoffs
So 3 players makes a great defensive team? It has nothing to do with the individuals, but the sum of all parts. The stats show that. The Canucks have some great defensive players no doubt, but as a team their defense isn't great. Its a product of the open, offensive system that they play. And you can't play that system successfully if you don't have strong goaltending.
Can you name me 3 great defensive player in Colombus? Tampa? Toronto?
Do you consider these team have great defense? How does the sum of all their part like?
Can you name me 3 great defensive player in Colombus? Tampa? Toronto?
Do you consider these team have great defense? How does the sum of all their part like?
I have no idea what you're getting at here. What do Columbus, Toronto and TB have to do with the Canucks and their goaltending? Did I lose you somewhere back there?
I have no idea what you're getting at here. What do Columbus, Toronto and TB have to do with the Canucks and their goaltending? Did I lose you somewhere back there?
this is true..detroit is 5th in the league in ga, because they only let 26 shots...good team defense. Vancouver is 4th in ga, and let over 31 shots a game. good goaltending
Fluery was 22 when he started consistantly for Pittsburg,
Schneider turned 26 like a week ago, so im saying on a desperate team for a goalie, like Pittsburg was, Schneider could have started consistantly. Again i am not comparing the two goalies skills, Schneider has a lot to prove to be in the same tier as Fleury for sure, is his potential even high enough to get to Fleury, not sure, but there was no opertunity for Schneider to take a starting role and really show what he can do yet. he is putting up better stats then Luongo this year. I think Vancouver ought to give Schneider the starting role next year, and when he fleurishes (pun intended) they should trade Luongo at the deadline, God knows they dont need Luongo for the playoffs
Schneider had opportunity to take the starting role! He was just not good/ready enough at the time for it.
Schneider was 20yo when Luongo was acquired. At 19yo, Price already had proven himself too good for the AHL (according to Gainey). Price was the youngest player to ever win the AHL MVP playoff award. At 19yo, Fleury already had NHL experience.
Cory Schneider was already 23yo when Luongo extended with Vancouver. Schneider failed his one opportunity to make a big impression in 2008-2009 when Luongo was injured. What if Schneider had a good first run in the NHL ?
If in 2009 Vancouver had a Price or a Fleury instead of Schneider, Probably Luongo doesnt get an extension in 2009 and Vancouver let him go to make place for the new future of their franchise.
And by the way, while Schneider have better stats than Luongo, as a backup, he face weaker offensive opposition than Luongo. just look at their game log. It would be interesting to calculate Luongo stats vs similar opposition than Schneider. Straight comparison isnt fair, The same can be say about almost any backup in the league vs the starter.
Leafs are rebuilding, so ya lets trade our 2 top prospects and another 1st round pick, which is a lottery pick btw, (didn't we already trade 2 for Kessel not making that mistake again) and potentially another (lol at the conditional pick) for a backup goalie and a 3rd line scrub..
Please, stop. Toronto isn't going to pay Vancouver's demands (if they are in fact as high posters claim). In fact, I'm highly skeptical any team would offer a lottery pick + for a Cory Schneider. Let's be realistic here Canucks fans, put yourself in the buyers shoes--would you pay? Toronto will look elsewhere this off-season and go after Schneider next deadline or just offer him a contract when he's UFA in 2013.
How do you expect negotations between Schneider's agent and the Canucks to go? My guess is that he'll settle for an arbitrator's number and play out the final year of his RFA contract with Vancouver before going UFA. Am I off-base here or is what I'm saying making sense? If it does make sense then ask yourself why any team would give up anything of significance for Schneider.
How do you expect negotations between Schneider's agent and the Canucks to go? My guess is that he'll settle for an arbitrator's number and play out the final year of his RFA contract with Vancouver before going UFA. Am I off-base here or is what I'm saying making sense? If it does make sense then ask yourself why any team would give up anything of significance for Schneider.
Counter-proposal: Cody Franson for Cory Schneider
Teams would pay for Schneider because they want him. Simple as that. What is the best way to ensure you get him? Give up assets.
Teams would pay for Schneider because they want him. Simple as that. What is the best way to ensure you get him? Give up assets.
E.g. Cody Franson for Cory Schneider, not some of the ridiculousness being flooded on these boards. C'mon, lottery picks + for Cory Schneider? He'll most likely be UFA next season and hasn't exactly proved himself It's worthy
Schneider had opportunity to take the starting role! He was just not good/ready enough at the time for it.
Schneider was 20yo when Luongo was acquired. At 19yo, Price already had proven himself too good for the AHL (according to Gainey). Price was the youngest player to ever win the AHL MVP playoff award. At 19yo, Fleury already had NHL experience.
Cory Schneider was already 23yo when Luongo extended with Vancouver. Schneider failed his one opportunity to make a big impression in 2008-2009 when Luongo was injured. What if Schneider had a good first run in the NHL ?
If in 2009 Vancouver had a Price or a Fleury instead of Schneider, Probably Luongo doesnt get an extension in 2009 and Vancouver let him go to make place for the new future of their franchise.
And by the way, while Schneider have better stats than Luongo, as a backup, he face weaker offensive opposition than Luongo. just look at their game log. It would be interesting to calculate Luongo stats vs similar opposition than Schneider. Straight comparison isnt fair, The same can be say about almost any backup in the league vs the starter.
i just looked at their game logs, i thought boston and st louis, along with the devils and chicago where good teams
GP40 W 28 L 10 T 1 SO 5 GA 79 SA 1,014 .930 2.04
I think those are good enough AHL stats to take over the starting job in Van and he wasn;t given a shot before Luongo signed his extension, just saying 8 nhl games is not a shot at the starting role
ps Price has bad stats in the AHL, so Gainey just brought him up for i dont kno y. but even the amazing carey price start his nhl career with 2 pretty lack luster seasons. and i also dont think when we are talking about amazing goalies like Fleury, we shouldnt really include price, seems like his hype is dropping to where it should be, finally
