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Nathan Horton Out for Season - confirmed 4/11/12

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04-04-2012, 10:45 PM
  #176
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The point being, expecting Horton to be only passively involved in the process is asking too much of a kid who seems to care deeply about his team and teammates. He's going to want to be told he can play, and I really hope the team is keeping a sharp eye out for dissembling answers and false assurances of health -- because Horton *will* be trying that. Everything in his being is going to be urging him to get on the ice as quickly as possible. It's simply how he's been trained.

The team's going to have to play a little mind reader if they're seriously contemplating putting Horton out there, and figure out when he's really ready and not just manning up. It's not a very bold guess that he's already out there telling them just how great he feels.

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04-04-2012, 11:14 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Savard is on record as saying he was stupid and made a huge mistake. You don't think Horton learned from that? That's his teammate, and he's watching him struggle to take care of his own children. Horton's got two young children himself, as Knight pointed out. I don't care how enthusiastic he is, he's not going to be stupid enough to put himself, his career, and ultimately his family at risk. And he's 26 years old - he is not a kid.
Completely agreed. Competitive or not, he has a living example of hero in Boston who MAY be decimated for LIFE because he forged too early of a comeback.

I have FULL confidence that no one on this team will EVER do something as potentially harmful to their life with Savvy around to caution them.

The only way Horton sees any action is if he honest good to go. I don't expect that will happen... But there is no doubt for me that when we do see him back, he'll be as medically ready as he ever would be to do so. Honest and without deceit.

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04-04-2012, 11:44 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
How difficult is it for you to understand that Marc Savard is Horton's TEAMMATE? That he's not going to lie to the doctors because he knows what will happen if he does? Do you think because he's played hockey since he was a kid, that he lives in a vacuum?

If Horton comes back, it will be because he's been OK'd by the doctors and trainers, and because he feels he can, not because he's lying about anything.

Good god.
Artemis, you make a lot of sense, but this might be one of those situations where the "sensible" thing is not what prevails, despite everyone's best intentions. I don't think it's simply a matter of "lying" versus "truth-telling", or of "intelligence" versus "stupidity". I think things might be messier than that. Maybe Horton gets to a place where he really feels mostly symptom-free, but a few times a day, maybe in the morning when waking up, feels especially foggy.... and he thinks, but isn't positive, that this is a thicker "fog" than he used to feel before the concussions, on any morning before shower and coffee. Maybe the neuro-psych tests start normalizing, and he feels good enough to get back to the ice, but that "fog" shows up from time to time. Should I worry about it? The doctor's tests are coming back okay.... I'm feeling pretty good.... And meanwhile, he sees the playoffs start. The thing he's dreamed about his whole life. Yes, he has kids, as you point out, but when he's in the playoffs he knows they're back home wearing number 18 jerseys and glued to his every shift.... They partake of the glory as well... Anyways, once I've been concussed, it's never completely safe to play hockey again anyways is it? I'll always be running a risk, right? So if I'm going to run a risk (which is minimal anyway, right?) shouldn't I run it now, while this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, with my team poised for a deep run, presents itself? "Oh but you're young" a voice in his head says, "you'll have other chances". "Hmm, maybe" says another voice, "but most players don't get this shot.... maybe I won't again...".

I don't know if that's exactly what's going on, but I could imagine it. I guess what I'm saying is, thinking even of my own life, and my own decision-making around health-related risks... and even in the face of the fact that I have two children.... I'm not sure I always take the most sensible path; I'm not sure I don't engage in a little deceit ... a little denial .... not because I'm stupid, not because I'm uncaring, but because... I'm human, and I have conflicted feelings, and the great unknowns about our bodies and about risk --even in the age of modern medicine-- leave plenty of room for us to make the less than sensible choice.

At what point is a post-concussed player out of the woods? Let me ask you: is Patrice Bergeron being sensible? One bad hit and his career could be over as well. These post-concussion guys are all playing russian roulette with their future well-being, even when they've been cleared by every test.

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04-04-2012, 11:54 PM
  #179
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Savvy's not even around the team anymore...we see him at the garden/in the states maybe once every couple months.

We're assuming way to much here, Dojji has a valid point here. Horton's main focus is getting back to playing the game of hockey, not if Marc Savard, who is an entirely different case, has trouble raising his kids.

I swear some people here would rather Patrice Bergeron never had played again so he could think about his children. Everyone loves to act like they're a part of the actual Bruins team, some even to the extent to which they're part of the family. I don't get it.

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04-05-2012, 12:35 AM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainOfJ View Post
I swear some people here would rather Patrice Bergeron never had played again so he could think about his children. Everyone loves to act like they're a part of the actual Bruins team, some even to the extent to which they're part of the family. I don't get it.
Some people around here swear they know the players better than they know themselves... without ever actually meeting them.

I'm sure Horton realizes that attempting to come back too early could be detrimental to his long term health, but I don't see the harm in taking a couple skates around the rink just to see where he's at. The last I had heard, Horton was still getting headaches when lifting at the gym and he wasn't skating at all. I'm assuming that if he's at least gone for a skate that the headaches he had been getting at the gym have subsided in some way.

Realistically, he probably won't be back this year. But take it for what it's worth; it's a step in the right direction for a guy who is universally adored around Boston.

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04-05-2012, 12:59 AM
  #181
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Tomorrow, the doctors clear him, and he feels ready to go.

A year later, a decade later . . . the doctors clear him, and he feels ready to go.

Is there any possible discernible interpretation that might separate the significance of one vs the other?

I just don't get it.

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04-05-2012, 01:11 AM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delbert Grady View Post
Tomorrow, the doctors clear him, and he feels ready to go.

A year later, a decade later . . . the doctors clear him, and he feels ready to go.

Is there any possible discernible interpretation that might separate the significance of one vs the other?

I just don't get it.
The only difference is that people think there is less chance the doctors are wrong in September. Just because he gets cleared doesn't mean he's healthy. People are saying resting him for another few months decreases the chances of an error.

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04-05-2012, 06:15 AM
  #183
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You must not think much of Horton's intelligence. He's Marc Savard's teammate, and Patrice Bergeron's as well. He's read the same reports about concussions that we have, he's been in constant contact with doctors, and he undoubtedly counts fellow concussion sufferers among his friends. He's not going to hide it if he's having problems.
I agree with this.

I also imagine he has chatted with both Savard and Bergeron about concussion and their experiences.

I think Savard came back at a time when concussion awareness was just becoming an issue. I am not really certain if Savard's had gotten his concussion this year that he would be returning for the playoffs in that situation. I think trainers and players are far more aware of the issue.

Sure Horton may still be hiding symptoms, but I suspect if he was going to hid symptoms he would have done so several weeks ago and not a few days before the playoffs.

That said-hopefully Horton the trainers and medical staff are diligent about the symptoms and his progress and if any of them have any doubts he will wait it out until next season.

But if he is ready, he is ready and has to come back sometime. I am personally still skeptical that he will make an appearance in the playoffs-at least an on the ice appearance.

I do think the fact that he has been at pretty much every home game for the last month and seems to be in good spirits is probably a good sign symptom wise.

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04-05-2012, 06:27 AM
  #184
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Having not played in months, and the amped up tempo/physicality of playoff hockey, I will just not feel one bit comfortable saying that it is wise for him to come back, "symptom free" means nothing in the way of being "game ready" let alone playoff game. Not my call but....

Savvy came back as we all know, had a nice storybook ending with an OT goal which badly camouflaged his average at best play the rest of the way, his heart was telling him to play and play with 100% hustle, his legs/body NEVER caught up to the speed of the game in the playoffs after his time away.

What`s best for the hockey team is icing players who are 100%, game ready.

What`s best for Nate long term "should be" concentrating on being this come next season, nobody here will convince this stubborn fan this is a positive thing if he were to come back having not played for so long.

I can hear it now if gawd forbid he comes back, is clearly not prepared for the tempo, Julien/Cam/Chia will be lambasted here for allowing it to happen while there is a healthy body in the press box

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04-05-2012, 07:10 AM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainOfJ View Post
Savvy's not even around the team anymore...we see him at the garden/in the states maybe once every couple months.

We're assuming way to much here, Dojji has a valid point here. Horton's main focus is getting back to playing the game of hockey, not if Marc Savard, who is an entirely different case, has trouble raising his kids.

I swear some people here would rather Patrice Bergeron never had played again so he could think about his children. Everyone loves to act like they're a part of the actual Bruins team, some even to the extent to which they're part of the family. I don't get it.
So true, it's like a bunch of mothers looking out for their kids - if Horton feels like he is healthy and ready to play in the playoffs (and passes all of his tests) it is his decision and I'll support whatever he wants to do.

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04-05-2012, 07:35 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by TMac21 View Post
So true, it's like a bunch of mothers looking out for their kids - if Horton feels like he is healthy and ready to play in the playoffs (and passes all of his tests) it is his decision and I'll support whatever he wants to do.
or perhaps it`s hockey fans who have seen this 1000 times, players returning (cleared for contact ) who aren`t anywhere close to being fully up to game speed (which is dangerous in itself).

Something tells me, if Horty is cleared for contact, and says he`s ready, we may yet see Claude/Chia or most likely Cam step in and say no to his return, they allowed Savvy to convince them about his readiness, he was nowhere close to being playoff ready, and although everyone is different, this ain`t a bum ankle Horty is coming off.

Sorry, I know it isn`t a popular stance to take here, but I don`t want any part of Horty coming back this season, not anywhere near convinced he would be remotely close to being able to get into proper shape, much less contribute consistently.

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04-05-2012, 07:38 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by TMac21 View Post
So true, it's like a bunch of mothers looking out for their kids - if Horton feels like he is healthy and ready to play in the playoffs (and passes all of his tests) it is his decision and I'll support whatever he wants to do.
They just grow up so fast. I feel like just yesterday Nathan was boarding the school bus for his first day! I remember the ninja turtles lunchbox he used to carry around, I think I still have it up in the attic somewhere.

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04-05-2012, 07:39 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Lobster57 View Post
The only difference is that people think there is less chance the doctors are wrong in September. Just because he gets cleared doesn't mean he's healthy. People are saying resting him for another few months decreases the chances of an error.
The next massive head blow Horton takes could be his last, he knows this. But if it comes in September, or in December of 2015, it's still going to be the same thing. He's now exponentially more prone to brain injury.

If it's however a whiplash injury, then there's considerable benefit to more sitting as his neck is made stronger. The two are often confused because they both provoke headaches.

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04-05-2012, 07:52 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
or perhaps it`s hockey fans who have seen this 1000 times, players returning (cleared for contact ) who aren`t anywhere close to being fully up to game speed (which is dangerous in itself).

Something tells me, if Horty is cleared for contact, and says he`s ready, we may yet see Claude/Chia or most likely Cam step in and say no to his return, they allowed Savvy to convince them about his readiness, he was nowhere close to being playoff ready, and although everyone is different, this ain`t a bum ankle Horty is coming off.

Sorry, I know it isn`t a popular stance to take here, but I don`t want any part of Horty coming back this season, not anywhere near convinced he would be remotely close to being able to get into proper shape, much less contribute consistently.
If they feel he won't make an impact on the ice than I am with you in not playing him - however if he is symptom free and gets some practices under his belt and looks like he can play then I am all for putting him back in there.

He's a professional player, it's not like he needs months to get his timing back.

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04-05-2012, 07:54 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by RedeyeRocketeer View Post
The next massive head blow Horton takes could be his last, he knows this. But if it comes in September, or in December of 2015, it's still going to be the same thing. He's now exponentially more prone to brain injury.

If it's however a whiplash injury, then there's considerable benefit to more sitting as his neck is made stronger. The two are often confused because they both provoke headaches.
True however, the longer he allows his brain to recover, it is more than proven the better his chances of him being able to sustain contact without injury

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04-05-2012, 08:02 AM
  #191
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Bruins could have suited up Patrice Bergeron for that Habs series, games 6 and 7 after his brutal concussion, but didn't. Look at the results. Savard kinda rushed back, look at the results. Horton had a brutal one in June, rushed back and by January, on a hit that should never have caused that damage, is out again.

Funny how everyone is saying 'If the doctor" says , LOLOLOL.... Doctors have been great so far

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04-05-2012, 08:04 AM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMac21 View Post
So true, it's like a bunch of mothers looking out for their kids - if Horton feels like he is healthy and ready to play in the playoffs (and passes all of his tests) it is his decision and I'll support whatever he wants to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainOfJ View Post
They just grow up so fast. I feel like just yesterday Nathan was boarding the school bus for his first day! I remember the ninja turtles lunchbox he used to carry around, I think I still have it up in the attic somewhere.
And if he does come back, in the play-offs where things are ramped up and chance of injury is greater, and does get knocked out I don't wanna hear you two biatching about the 8 mil in dead cap space we have for next year between Savard and Horton.

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04-05-2012, 08:06 AM
  #193
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Exactly. I'm legitimately worried that the medical tests are going to consist of Horton doing what he feels he has to do get out there. The front office needs to err on the side of caution here.

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04-05-2012, 08:07 AM
  #194
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hopefully the organization doesn't rush Horton, or fall into the same trap Savard made them do. But would it be a stretch to say Horton would play if the Bruins make it to the Stanley Cup Finals? Assuming he's skating and exercising all this time.

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04-05-2012, 08:09 AM
  #195
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Lotta white knighting going on up in hurr.

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04-05-2012, 08:19 AM
  #196
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hopefully the organization doesn't rush Horton, or fall into the same trap Savard made them do. But would it be a stretch to say Horton would play if the Bruins make it to the Stanley Cup Finals? Assuming he's skating and exercising all this time.
Depends on your definition of "stretch," I suppose. Backstrom recently returned in Washington if you're looking for a comp, but I'm not sure how long he was working out.

The bottom line is, Horton can pass all the tests and be cleared by the doctors, but they can't get inside his head. The final clearance will come from him. I don't know the guy, but I do know he has a family, he's witnessed (and undoubtedly talked to) two teammates who have walked the same path, and he doesn't strike me as a stupid jock who won't consider EVERYTHING before he attempts to return. Whether it's later this spring or next fall, whatever he decides, I'll trust him on it.

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04-05-2012, 08:30 AM
  #197
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Ive been saying for the last month - even if they said today that hes ready to go, he did full-contact drills with Phaneuf, and could go 12-rounds of boxing with Thornton with no problems - i would still be shocked if we saw him before the CF, if we even make it that far (**knock::knock**) - and i would STILL consider that a moderate risk

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04-05-2012, 08:32 AM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Bruins could have suited up Patrice Bergeron for that Habs series, games 6 and 7 after his brutal concussion, but didn't. Look at the results. Savard kinda rushed back, look at the results. Horton had a brutal one in June, rushed back and by January, on a hit that should never have caused that damage, is out again.

Funny how everyone is saying 'If the doctor" says , LOLOLOL.... Doctors have been great so far
That's actually a really good point. Track record so far isn't awesome.

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04-05-2012, 08:38 AM
  #199
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Lotta white knighting going on up in hurr.
yup. awful lotta white knighting


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04-05-2012, 08:43 AM
  #200
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not that i am an expert but to me. if i had a concussion which i am sure i have had but never been diagnosed

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