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Pittsburg / Ottawa Proposal

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Old
11-26-2004, 12:31 AM
  #76
Bileur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrymir
You know I don't believe he's uncomfortable on LW. IMO it was Jaques who was uncomfortable Havlat on LW. Havlat plays LW for PP all the time, and he sure doesn't out of place to me. Once hockey resumes I'd like to see Havlat on LW for about a month before I pass jugement.

As for trading Alfie... no way, not now, not ever. He showed loyalty to the team, signing a long term deal, for less mmoney he could've got elsewhere, and we trade him.... no. He's our captain, our PP QB, has a good relationship with management, and one of the most liked players in this city.

As long as Alfie wants to be a sens he will be.
I agree with your entire post.

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Old
11-26-2004, 12:46 AM
  #77
clefty
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Originally Posted by Protoman
Jackman<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<A Pylon
And Jackman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Berehowsky.

Your team got burned in that trade. Get over it.

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Old
11-26-2004, 01:35 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrymir
As for trading Alfie... no way, not now, not ever. He showed loyalty to the team, signing a long term deal, for less money he could've got elsewhere, and we trade him.... no. He's our captain, our PP QB, has a good relationship with management, and one of the most liked players in this city.

As long as Alfie wants to be a sens he will be.
And as long as Alfredsson is in Ottawa, Havlat's ice time is always going to be less than 20 minutes a game. Havlat has proven at this point he is as good, maybe even better a player than Alfredsson. Alfredsson's value is at it's highest right now because he IS under contract for the next four seasons and his contract is fairly manageable. He is 30 or 31 and he's still got several good years of hockey left him. With that being said, because his value is at it's highest, Ottawa wouldn't be making a deal of weakness, it would be out of strength.

As for captaincy, Fisher is the captain in waiting in Ottawa. Alfredsson maybe a very good player, but I think Havlat can be an even better player. That alone is more than enough reason to even look at a trade involving Alfredsson.

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Old
11-26-2004, 02:30 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty
And Jackman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Berehowsky.

Your team got burned in that trade. Get over it.
It was a great trade for us, but I do agree with Leafs fans that Jackman didn't seem like he was ever going to amount to anything in Toronto. Still, it is a little ridiculous that they assail the guy with insults every time his name is brought up...he can still succeed in the NHL IMO. Not succeeding on the Maple Leafs doesn't mean you are condemned for your career. Someone must have saw something in Jackman in his high draft spot. Not saying he will be a top dman, but the guy was very solid in Pitts, and looks like he may be turning his career around.

I agree with your comparison clefty, and I'll tack one on...

Jackman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone on this board constantly trashing him

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Old
11-26-2004, 02:39 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary
Minus injuries, Rucchin has actually had a pretty good career.
Agreed. But, I think that Malone's goal scoring abilities will exceed Rucchin at his best (who is more of a playmaker and checker). I think Malone can be a fairly consistent 25 - 30 goal guy. I could be wrong, but I hope that is how he develops.

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Old
11-26-2004, 04:19 PM
  #81
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What's the deal in wanting to trade Havlat everywhere? Or it's everybody who wants Havlat and act like an ignorant saying Havlat doesn't have less value than he actually has?

Come on. Havlat is one of the greatest young stars in the league, and has superstar potential. He's just 22 and already getting a point per game playing behind Hossa and Alfredsson.

Come on, there's no way Havlat is going to be traded without Ottawa receiving another star in return. And saying Malone could be equivalent to Havlat is totally laughable.. come on, get serious!

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Old
11-26-2004, 04:19 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protoman
Malone<Havlat
Eastwood<White
Jackman<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<A Pylon
Sour grapes by any chance?

As the others said, I don't see why some TO fans see the need to jump on him every time he's mentioned.


Last edited by Lionel Hutz: 11-26-2004 at 04:27 PM.
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Old
11-26-2004, 04:33 PM
  #83
Ismellofhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan10
And as long as Alfredsson is in Ottawa, Havlat's ice time is always going to be less than 20 minutes a game. Havlat has proven at this point he is as good, maybe even better a player than Alfredsson. Alfredsson's value is at it's highest right now because he IS under contract for the next four seasons and his contract is fairly manageable. He is 30 or 31 and he's still got several good years of hockey left him. With that being said, because his value is at it's highest, Ottawa wouldn't be making a deal of weakness, it would be out of strength.

As for captaincy, Fisher is the captain in waiting in Ottawa. Alfredsson maybe a very good player, but I think Havlat can be an even better player. That alone is more than enough reason to even look at a trade involving Alfredsson.
Every team needs a player in its history that defines the team. Because of Ottawa's short history we haven't had such a player before. If Alfredsson finishes his career as a Sen, he'll have played his entire career in Ottawa. Every team needs someone like that. As he gets older his ice time will decrease and Havlat's will increase, even quicker if he sees time on the left side occasionally.

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Old
11-26-2004, 04:34 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryderama
What's the deal in wanting to trade Havlat everywhere? Or it's everybody who wants Havlat and act like an ignorant saying Havlat doesn't have less value than he actually has?

Come on. Havlat is one of the greatest young stars in the league, and has superstar potential. He's just 22 and already getting a point per game playing behind Hossa and Alfredsson.

Come on, there's no way Havlat is going to be traded without Ottawa receiving another star in return. And saying Malone could be equivalent to Havlat is totally laughable.. come on, get serious!
Like I said to FlyersFan10 where were you in all the other Havlat threads .

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Old
11-26-2004, 04:35 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ismellofhockey
Every team needs a player in its history that defines the team. Because of Ottawa's short history we haven't had such a player before. If Alfredsson finishes his career as a Sen, he'll have played his entire career in Ottawa. Every team needs someone like that. As he gets older his ice time will decrease and Havlat's will increase, even quicker if he sees time on the left side occasionally.
I still think Havlat could take a regular shift at LW. I havent written him off at that position and I think losing Jacques Martin will help Havlat succede at that position.

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Old
11-26-2004, 04:41 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan10
Alfredsson's value is at it's highest right now because he IS under contract for the next four seasons and his contract is fairly manageable. He is 30 or 31 and he's still got several good years of hockey left him. With that being said, because his value is at it's highest, Ottawa wouldn't be making a deal of weakness, it would be out of strength.
Not to mention he had a career year last season, and has been rock solid for the last 4.

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Old
11-26-2004, 04:52 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryderama
What's the deal in wanting to trade Havlat everywhere? Or it's everybody who wants Havlat and act like an ignorant saying Havlat doesn't have less value than he actually has?

Come on. Havlat is one of the greatest young stars in the league, and has superstar potential. He's just 22 and already getting a point per game playing behind Hossa and Alfredsson.

Come on, there's no way Havlat is going to be traded without Ottawa receiving another star in return. And saying Malone could be equivalent to Havlat is totally laughable.. come on, get serious!
I can't remember the last time an Ottawa fan suggested trading Havlat. It is almost always stuff like EDM fans wanting him for Smyth, etc... I think Ottawa fans, and more importantly Ottawa management, recognizes that Havlat is a potential star.

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Old
11-26-2004, 04:55 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful
I'd like to see a pylon average .96 PPG
I doubt a pylon could even average .099 points a game.

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Old
11-26-2004, 05:00 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty
And Jackman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Berehowsky.

Your team got burned in that trade. Get over it.
Nothing for nothing, no big deal. There was no place for Jackman in the Leafs lineup and what he returned in trade is a reflection on what the rest of the league thought also.

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Old
11-26-2004, 06:22 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan10
And as long as Alfredsson is in Ottawa, Havlat's ice time is always going to be less than 20 minutes a game. Havlat has proven at this point he is as good, maybe even better a player than Alfredsson. Alfredsson's value is at it's highest right now because he IS under contract for the next four seasons and his contract is fairly manageable. He is 30 or 31 and he's still got several good years of hockey left him. With that being said, because his value is at it's highest, Ottawa wouldn't be making a deal of weakness, it would be out of strength.

As for captaincy, Fisher is the captain in waiting in Ottawa. Alfredsson maybe a very good player, but I think Havlat can be an even better player. That alone is more than enough reason to even look at a trade involving Alfredsson.
If we could get the pieces we need for Alfredson I would certainly do it. The question of course is exactly what do we get back for him. I thought Bonk and Lalime were worth more than we got for them, the picks are doing well but these two guys were legitimate NHLers already and should have been worth more.

Alfredson is a great RW no question but he is small and does take away from Havlat's ice time. It's also true that now may be the best time to trade him to get the best return although Ottawa fans might burn down the Corel Centre. There is also talk that they may try Havlat to play centre or LW to see how that works out.
How about Alfredson for #1 centre Sergei Fedorov and Garrett Burnett or add Todd White for LW Power Forward Scott Hartnell and C David Legwand.

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Old
11-26-2004, 07:38 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aragorn
If we could get the pieces we need for Alfredson I would certainly do it. The question of course is exactly what do we get back for him. I thought Bonk and Lalime were worth more than we got for them, the picks are doing well but these two guys were legitimate NHLers already and should have been worth more.

Alfredson is a great RW no question but he is small and does take away from Havlat's ice time. It's also true that now may be the best time to trade him to get the best return although Ottawa fans might burn down the Corel Centre. There is also talk that they may try Havlat to play centre or LW to see how that works out.
How about Alfredson for #1 centre Sergei Fedorov and Garrett Burnett or add Todd White for LW Power Forward Scott Hartnell and C David Legwand.
To be quite honest, I doubt the Preds would trade Hartnell straight up for Alfredson. Alfredson is a excellent all around player, but Hartnell is a big part of their future. I also can't imagine they'd throw in Legwand.

The Federov idea is interesting, but the Sens could not afford his salary. So, that is a no go as well.

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Old
11-26-2004, 08:01 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
To be quite honest, I doubt the Preds would trade Hartnell straight up for Alfredson. Alfredson is a excellent all around player, but Hartnell is a big part of their future. I also can't imagine they'd throw in Legwand.

The Federov idea is interesting, but the Sens could not afford his salary. So, that is a no go as well.
Not to mention the fact Darth, that Ottawa was quite proud to lock Alfredson up,he's not going anywhere. the entire discussion of moving Alfredson to make more ice-time for Havlat is silly if you ask me.

Havlat is a great player, but Alfredson is very important to that team, and he will be for a while to come.

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Old
11-28-2004, 12:49 AM
  #93
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How about:

Ottawa gets: Rico Fata

Pittsburgh gets: Its name spelled correctly

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Old
11-28-2004, 12:57 AM
  #94
clefty
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Originally Posted by SauveQuiPeut
How about:

Ottawa gets: Rico Fata

Pittsburgh gets: Its name spelled correctly
Priceless.

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Old
11-28-2004, 01:43 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary
You can argue all you want, but it isn't a good development league.
Playing 40 games a year in a amateur league until you're 23 years old won't make players better. How is this not obvious to you? ... Every other player they'll meet in the NHL is already facing stiffer competition and learning better skills at a younger age
It's like you're trying to prove that 4 years in grade 6 makes people smarter in university.
so players don't develop leadership, confidence, physical gain, skating, playoff types of games, responsibility (handling books/sport), commrodery etc.. it's like YOU"RE saying players in college don't develop anything, which is WRONG

tell that to:

brooks orpik
john leclair
brian rafalski
john madden
brian gionta
jay pandolfo
jason blake
shawn bates
anson carter
thomas pock
ryan malone
mike eastwood
dallas drake
jamal mayers
eric boguniecki
greg johnson
adam hall
rem murray
brad bombardir
brian holzinger
steve poapst
mike knuble
dan mcgillis
ted donato
hal gill
brian smolinski
todd white
brian pothier
jim dowd
joe juneau
chris drury
brendan morrison
john-michael liles
steve moore
craig conroy
jordon leopold
steven reinprecht
chris clark
mike york
shawn horcoff
fernando pisani
antti laaksonen
dwayne roloson
nikos dimatrakos
tom preissing
jim fahey
david oliver
don sweeney
marty turco
aaron miller
andy mcdonald
jason krog
dan bylsma
mike johnson
dan boyle
andy sutton
chris tamer
kevyn adams
jeff halpern
kip miller

now, i left off all guys with 3, 2, or even 1 year in the ncaa, since they obviously got out before it was too late


Last edited by andora: 11-28-2004 at 02:17 AM.
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Old
11-28-2004, 05:53 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryderama
What's the deal in wanting to trade Havlat everywhere? Or it's everybody who wants Havlat and act like an ignorant saying Havlat doesn't have less value than he actually has?

Come on. Havlat is one of the greatest young stars in the league, and has superstar potential. He's just 22 and already getting a point per game playing behind Hossa and Alfredsson.

Come on, there's no way Havlat is going to be traded without Ottawa receiving another star in return. And saying Malone could be equivalent to Havlat is totally laughable.. come on, get serious!
I'm glad I'm not the only one wondering why they're so many Havlat threads... Well to tell the truth I do understand why, but I think it's flawed logic imho. Nearly everyone in sens land is fixated on finding a crash and banger to give us a different dimension, and the coveted RHS for Redden (which I agreed with straight after the playoffs, but I've now mellowed). Thats why we're interested in anyone with a hint of upside thats got some crash and bang about them.

I sincerely doubt that Jackman is the solution to the right handed shot problem. I think the stats are deceiving, he turned it on in the last 3rd of the season against a pretty weak schedule;Washington 3 times and NYR 3 times when they're both trying to suck as much as possible!! Personally, I'm relieved he can turn it on against an AHL side 6 times at the end of the season.

(http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/player_g...29&hubname=PIT)

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Old
11-28-2004, 02:56 PM
  #97
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora
so players don't develop leadership, confidence, physical gain, skating, playoff types of games, responsibility (handling books/sport), commrodery etc.. it's like YOU"RE saying players in college don't develop anything, which is WRONG

tell that to:

...

now, i left off all guys with 3, 2, or even 1 year in the ncaa, since they obviously got out before it was too late
Wow, a whole 4 of those 60 players have actually cracked the 70 point mark (the barrier that I believe that Malone will never cross).
Leclair, Juneau, Morrison, Conroy.

Sadder still is that those seasons generally reflect aberations within those players' careers and can be greatly attributed to other players, such as:
Lindros, Oates, Naslund, Iginla.
(players at the top of the NHL at that time)

Oates 3rd in scoring for both of Juneau's 70+ seasons.
Naslund 2nd for Morrison's 70+ season.
Iginla 1st for Conroy's 70+ season.

So saying that "Malone will probably top out around 60 points" is pretty much backed up by the careers of the players you've listed. Unless Malkin challenges for an Art Ross trophy and carries Malone along for the ride.


Last edited by trentmccleary: 11-28-2004 at 03:28 PM.
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Old
11-28-2004, 04:42 PM
  #98
Jeff Goldblum
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Since when were points everything that mattered???

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Old
11-28-2004, 05:06 PM
  #99
trentmccleary
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Since when were points everything that mattered???
Malone is billed as a young, offensive player. How much he's expected to produce is an important factor in his trade value.

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Old
11-28-2004, 05:55 PM
  #100
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Obviously...but you're trying to make a case that because only 4 of those guys have produced over 70 pts, the NCAA can't develop prospects. Looking at that list, i see plenty of players who are valued to their team for doing plenty of things other than produce mass amounts of points.

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