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Shawn Hunwick (U of M, G)

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Old
03-28-2012, 10:37 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post

You just have to love the irony of this picture...
LOL he looks 5 years old!

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03-28-2012, 11:20 PM
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The "problem" with York as Doggy pointed out is that the Jackets have sent him from team to team and league to league and sat him for most of the season. A classic jacket development effort.
The beauty of this argument is that if they played his arms off you could then criticize that too.

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03-29-2012, 08:53 AM
  #28
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The beauty of this argument is that if they played his arms off you could then criticize that too.
There is a big happy medium between letting a kid rust on the bench and beating him into the ground by over-playing him.

As for York being a college player and being used to not getting a lot of playing time, starting NCAA goalies will get 30-40 starts in a year. York hasn't even gotten half of that. In addiiton, if he got lots of practice and coaching in college then the argument is what he really needs now is experience...not more practice.

To me, York appears to have sound fundamentals. I didn't see him flopping around or out of position much. What he needs is to see more live ammunition.

This season is basically over and been a wasted developmental year (IMO), hopefully he gets to stay in Springfield all next season. Of course he will have to compete with Corbeil for playing time who I think ages out of Juniors but isn't likely ready for the NHL.

Here is my question (and comment), York probably spent 30-45 days on the NHL roster. When he wasn't on the NHL roster, why was he bumped around from the ECHL and AHL and not given much playing time. He is the best goalie (furthest along) signed to a CBJ contract in the system, there is no excuse for him to have not been in Springfield and the primary starter whenever he wasn't in Columbus on emergency call up. What other team sends their emergency NHL backup to the ECHL?

Me personally, if I was a GM, I would want my backup goalie called up from being the starter in the AHL. Not the ECHL starter or the non-starter on the AHL roster. But what do I know...Howson, Priest, and Arniel/Richards are the experts and they have done oh so good a job of handling our players in the past.


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03-29-2012, 09:08 AM
  #29
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That only happens when you are the CBJ. This management could screw up a one car funeral

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03-29-2012, 12:08 PM
  #30
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Dex got hurt, Sandord got hurt, Mason got hurt. Legace could only stay in Springfield. There was a reason that York got moved around so much. It's just sad to see his first season get wasted being moved.

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03-29-2012, 12:27 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by DoggyII View Post

Here is my question (and comment), York probably spent 30-45 days on the NHL roster. When he wasn't on the NHL roster, why was he bumped around from the ECHL and AHL and not given much playing time. He is the best goalie (furthest along) signed to a CBJ contract in the system, there is no excuse for him to have not been in Springfield and the primary starter whenever he wasn't in Columbus on emergency call up. What other team sends their emergency NHL backup to the ECHL?

Me personally, if I was a GM, I would want my backup goalie called up from being the starter in the AHL. Not the ECHL starter or the non-starter on the AHL roster. But what do I know...Howson, Priest, and Arniel/Richards are the experts and they have done oh so good a job of handling our players in the past.

The issue is in Springfield, Riley wouldn't play York. The last time York was assigned there, Riley started a rookie they just signed out of Brown with no pro experience in for 2 games with York as the backup or 3rd goalie.

Before that, Legace was signed and is a crowd favorite in Springy. He was getting starts. (Legace is now injuried)

Dainton legitimately has been outplaying York. To start the season, Dainton did pretty poorly in Springfield, got sent to Chicago and did what York should have done - got a bunch of starts to help put his game together.

Chicago is an expansion ECHL team with a shaky defense. They seem to have CBJ style implosions quite often and their goalies need to either stand on their heads or get blown out. York had a few blow outs, got benched and was backing up another goalie Chicago found.

Springfield eventually loaned Dainton to another ECHL team, so there might be issues with Chicago.

So, the Jackets management seem to have no ability to say to either Springfield or Chicago - York has to start. Both teams were benching him or even making him the 3rd goalie over players with far less experience.

It's like last year in Springfield where they had like 11 defenseman and Cody Goloubef and Theo Ruth were healthy scratches most of the year, never having a chance to get their games together and continuing to struggle the whole year.

I get that AHL and ECHL teams want to win, not develop prospects for the CBJ. But the Jackets keep losing years with prospects when they get to be the odd man out, never play and never can get themselves back into the lineup.

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03-29-2012, 12:59 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by JacketsFanWest View Post
The issue is in Springfield, Riley wouldn't play York. The last time York was assigned there, Riley started a rookie they just signed out of Brown with no pro experience in for 2 games with York as the backup or 3rd goalie.

Before that, Legace was signed and is a crowd favorite in Springy. He was getting starts. (Legace is now injuried)

Dainton legitimately has been outplaying York. To start the season, Dainton did pretty poorly in Springfield, got sent to Chicago and did what York should have done - got a bunch of starts to help put his game together.

Chicago is an expansion ECHL team with a shaky defense. They seem to have CBJ style implosions quite often and their goalies need to either stand on their heads or get blown out. York had a few blow outs, got benched and was backing up another goalie Chicago found.

Springfield eventually loaned Dainton to another ECHL team, so there might be issues with Chicago.

So, the Jackets management seem to have no ability to say to either Springfield or Chicago - York has to start. Both teams were benching him or even making him the 3rd goalie over players with far less experience.

It's like last year in Springfield where they had like 11 defenseman and Cody Goloubef and Theo Ruth were healthy scratches most of the year, never having a chance to get their games together and continuing to struggle the whole year.

I get that AHL and ECHL teams want to win, not develop prospects for the CBJ. But the Jackets keep losing years with prospects when they get to be the odd man out, never play and never can get themselves back into the lineup.
There's going to be a point when the NHL start looking at the idea of direct ownership of all minor league teams, or else of completely retooling the way that business is done. The goals of a minor league franchise and that of the parent team aren't necessarily contradictory, but there's certainly a disconnect. The parent team wants to develop its players even if it's at the expense of the minor league teams, and the minor league teams want to win games and pack the stands.

A great way to demonstrate this is via the outstanding hockey simulator EHM2007. I've started many games on there with various styles...the two that most demonstrate the point were an independent minor league team (ECHL Columbia Inferno), an affiliated minor league team, and an NHL team. With the independent team, I have to find my own talent...need a good scouting staff, good coaches, and a lot of backup plans. None of my players can be randomly recalled in the middle of a season, but I can certainly lose them to NHL teams signing them. There were a few times where a player would sign a contract with an NHL team, then be sent down to their ECHL team, where I would then have to play against that same guy. With the affiliated team, job security is based on wins and losses, not on maintaining a good relationship with the NHL team. Players get sent up and down frequently with me having no control over them. It's annoying and can leave my team badly shorthanded, needing a short-term signing just to fill a roster. And with the NHL team, I run the risk of a prospect in the AHL either not being used properly or not used at all. There's nothing quite like bringing a prospect along slowly, and then seeing his progress derailed by an AHL coach.

The only way to alleviate this is by taking control of all levels of affiliation...NHL, AHL, ECHL, and possibly CHL. That allows the NHL team to take charge of all hirings and firings, adjust the roster for the purpose of developing prospects, and basically run the minor leagues for what they basically are, which is as a collection of feudal serfs under the lord of the manor.

Personally, I think that the number of possible positives for total system ownership vastly outweigh the negatives. Namely:
1) Minor league teams are constantly in a state of instability because the owners tend to lack both the money and desire to ride out things like a local downturn in the economy. There are always teams available for sale, and even those who aren't technically for sale could be convinced.
2) By being able to control location, an NHL team would be better able to expand their fan base within a region if they so desire. A common complaint has been poor promotion of the CBJ around the state. What better way to address that than by owning the AHL team in Cleveland, the ECHL team in Cincinnati, and the CHL team in Dayton? And if Dayton doesn't want to play ball, then someone will.
3) It would allow for a more streamlined focus. A player in the ECHL would be learning how to do things the CBJ way, as opposed to whatever they currently have going. The current setup will have different systems, different focuses, and different goals. Total ownership would drastically change that.
4) It would allow the team to attract the best and brightest young talent. Someone can come in at the CHL level and know that if they perform well as an assistant coach, they can move up quickly. An ECHL head coach can move up. A CHL strength and conditioning coach can move up. But more than that would be the benefits of allowing for more frequent meetings of the minds. If there's a new breakthrough in strength and conditioning, geographic proximity would allow for those coaches to meet and organize and implement the new methods. If there are young scouts, they can learn their craft from NHL scouts. And so on.
5) It would give another look at older players. If a minor-league player on an ECHL contract sees that he has a very good chance at moving up by impressing, he's more likely to sign with a team that has direct ownership as opposed to one who does not.

I could probably keep going with this, but it's something that makes a great amount of sense. If you'd like to see it done, just hope that I win the Mega Millions jackpot.

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03-29-2012, 01:09 PM
  #33
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Sorry, I don't buy it. You are basically telling me Springfield was dictating to Columbus which of their players would get played...that's the tail wagging the dog. If that is true, then the Blue Jackets organization is even more of a joke than I thought.

It's like Moneyball...if your coach won't play your players, then you take away the players they want to play. "Rob, listen...I hear you won't play Allen York in goal and we have to send him down to Chicago of the ECHL to get some playing time. That's cool but since we want our prospects to develop together, we are sending Giroux, Calvert, Atkinson, Byers, Kubalik, Prout, Ruth, and Golubef down with him. Hope that's OK. When you decide you are willing to play and develop our goalie, we can bring them all up at once."

I know the above scenario is unrealistic but no way should Springfield have the ability to tank the development of one of our prospects. We are the parent...they are the child...end of story BECAUSE I SAID SO!

Off my soapbox.

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03-29-2012, 01:35 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by DoggyII View Post
Sorry, I don't buy it. You are basically telling me Springfield was dictating to Columbus which of their players would get played...that's the tail wagging the dog. If that is true, then the Blue Jackets organization is even more of a joke than I thought.
It depends on who answers to who. Both sides (parent and affiliate) have their finger on the button; the parent can threaten to find a new affiliate, and the affiliate can threaten to hit the open market for a new parent. If it's an affiliate that's a decent distance away from the parent, the threat becomes pretty clear. Someone like Providence (who's been affiliated with Boston since the last geological era ended) making threats would be seen as a bluff, while someone like Portland with Anaheim is a much greater threat.

If an AHL team isn't winning games and their coaching staff answers to the NHL team, the AHL team can still make threats about what will happen if that coaching staff is retained into the next year. Some NHL teams can tell them to shut up and deal with it, others can't. Direct ownership eliminates that.

Quote:
It's like Moneyball...if your coach won't play your players, then you take away the players they want to play. "Rob, listen...I hear you won't play Allen York in goal and we have to send him down to Chicago of the ECHL to get some playing time. That's cool but since we want our prospects to develop together, we are sending Giroux, Calvert, Atkinson, Byers, Kubalik, Prout, Ruth, and Golubef down with him. Hope that's OK. When you decide you are willing to play and develop our goalie, we can bring them all up at once."
I do have to wonder if that idea had something to do with players not being retained over the last couple of years at the NHL level. If there's a 29-year-old career minor league who's getting important minutes at the expense of a 22-year-old who might have a future, either get on the coach or get that useless player out of there.

Quote:
I know the above scenario is unrealistic but no way should Springfield have the ability to tank the development of one of our prospects. We are the parent...they are the child...end of story BECAUSE I SAID SO!
Earl Weaver once had a story about when he was getting started as a manager in the minor leagues. Baltimore had a prospect who they wanted to convert to another position, and wanted him to start the conversion immediately...let's say it was a third baseman becoming a center fielder Weaver's team (Elmira, I think) was in a heated pennant race, and he knew that replacing his excellent defensive center fielder with this prospect who quite clearly had no future at that position would kill his team's chances of winning. Now, the prospect was already in the lineup every day as it was, so it's not like he was on the bench, and he was pretty good defensively at third.

Finally, he hit on a solution. For the first inning, he would bench his regular CF. He'd start the prospect in CF, and have a bench player starting at third. For the second inning, he'd move the prospect back to third, put the bench player on the bench, and put his regular center fielder out there. When the box score was read, it would show that the prospect had played both positions, but it wouldn't say when the switch was made...it showed up the same with this arrangement as if the switch were made in the 8th. But the whole time this happened, he was afraid for his job...he was defying a direct order in order to keep his team competitive and possibly get his whole slew of other Orioles prospects the experience of a pennant race and a championship series. Baltimore would have kicked away a HOF manager and their entire run of success from 1968-83 over this relatively minor issue.

That's one of the problems with having pseudo-independent minor leagues. Baltimore was saying that this one prospect was more important than the added benefit to all of the other ones, and also telling the guys who ran the minor league team to recognize that they were little more than serfs. Whether that's the current setup of the business arrangement doesn't change the fact that it's just not right.

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03-29-2012, 01:42 PM
  #35
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Good for this kid and I wish him the best.
But some of the posts here sound desperate.

Fans need to stay focused on our anger and insist on veteran goalkeeping that will produce immediate results.

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03-29-2012, 01:54 PM
  #36
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Yesterday Hunwick was a good story. I hope he got something for his effort. If he's our back up until the end of the season, whatever. I personally do not want to see him in goal in Columbus next year. That would be a sad tell on the season.

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03-29-2012, 01:55 PM
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“@BlueJacketsNHL: #CBJ sign goaltender Shawn Hunwick (@shawn_hunwick) to one-year contract through the conclusion of the 2011-12 season: http://t.co/ijquhRML”

Meaning he is now signed for 10 days. Overreaction posts in 5..4..3....

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03-29-2012, 01:58 PM
  #38
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AHL team are have split loyalties, to their fans and to that of their parent club. I'm not worried about it. Most players will get their ice time. That York got bounced around speaks a lot about York.

You piss off the parent club too much you end up looking for another partnership. But the parent club has to realize the farm clubs have owners, fans, and bills to pay.

It's not that much of an issue.

We tried to give Springfield a very competitive team this year. That's all we can do. When the farm team doesn't make the playoffs, every call up is questioned. It is what it is. It's the price they pay for getting players from the parent clubs farm system.

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03-29-2012, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
“@BlueJacketsNHL: #CBJ sign goaltender Shawn Hunwick (@shawn_hunwick) to one-year contract through the conclusion of the 2011-12 season: http://t.co/ijquhRML”

Meaning he is now signed for 10 days.
It will run through June 30, so the team has plenty of time to make moves and see what the future looks like before determining whether he's worth an extension.

If I remember my waiver rules correctly (and I usually don't), he wouldn't accrue a single season as a pro player by being on the active roster for such a short period of time.

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03-29-2012, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
“@BlueJacketsNHL: #CBJ sign goaltender Shawn Hunwick (@shawn_hunwick) to one-year contract through the conclusion of the 2011-12 season: http://t.co/ijquhRML”

Meaning he is now signed for 10 days. Overreaction posts in 5..4..3....
Hopefully he gets in a game.

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03-29-2012, 02:02 PM
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It will run through June 30.
I know

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03-29-2012, 02:08 PM
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I know
And I know that you know, but somehow the idea of the topic quickly turning into a bunch of garbage about "pathetic asset management for signing someone for 10 days" doesn't hold the same appeal to me.

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03-29-2012, 02:16 PM
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And I know that you know, but somehow the idea of the topic quickly turning into a bunch of garbage about "pathetic asset management for signing someone for 10 days" doesn't hold the same appeal to me.
Come on you and I both know you all ready have a two page post typed up and ready to go.

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03-29-2012, 02:23 PM
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I'm confused. Why is this an issue? We are looking for someone to stop some pucks in practice and maybe come in to spell York if he gets destroyed in a game. He's a body. Another injury and we'll find another goalie to give another contract to.

I can't even imagine what type of controversy this could create.

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03-29-2012, 02:31 PM
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Come on you and I both know you all ready have a two page post typed up and ready to go.
I always do!

I'm of the opinion that goalies are a lot like running backs in the NFL. 95% are interchangeable and can be found anywhere in the draft and in free agency. That last 5% might actually cost something of value to get, either in terms of salary (via free agency) or assets (through the draft or trade). Roberto Luongo kind of screwed things up; THN had a huge thing leading up the 97 draft about how no goalie had ever been taken higher than 5th overall, and wondered about the artificial cap on goalies in the draft. I'm pretty sure I still have that issue somewhere too.

Anyway, in the years since, I've noticed that 5th used to be the ultimate benchmark. If a goalie was a tremendous prospect, the question was "Is he good enough to go higher than 5th?" With the drafting of Luongo 4th, then Dipietro 1st, Lehtonen 2nd, and Fleury 1st, that all went out the window.

In very rare cases, like Trent Richardson with running backs, using a high pick on a goalie might be worth it. But I think that goalies tend to be the target of a lot more reaches than other positions, with a wildly inconsistent return.

(Now, convert to 72-point comic sans in purple, and this is now two pages!)

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03-29-2012, 02:34 PM
  #46
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I'm confused. Why is this an issue? We are looking for someone to stop some pucks in practice and maybe come in to spell York if he gets destroyed in a game. He's a body. Another injury and we'll find another goalie to give another contract to.

I can't even imagine what type of controversy this could create.
Is this a "depth signing" and if so


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03-29-2012, 02:38 PM
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Is this a "depth signing" and if so
I said no, but Tommy Soderstrom objected and came after me...I held him off by putting my hand on his forehead.


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03-29-2012, 02:39 PM
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I'm confused. Why is this an issue? We are looking for someone to stop some pucks in practice and maybe come in to spell York if he gets destroyed in a game. He's a body. Another injury and we'll find another goalie to give another contract to.

I can't even imagine what type of controversy this could create.
No issue, he is just like you said a body. I just got the feeling yesterday that some think he is more then that.

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03-29-2012, 02:50 PM
  #49
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Assuming Jackets sign two goalies in the off-season or one plus Mason, York and Corbeil will be competing for PT in Springfield so there wouldn't be any room for Hunwick anyway.

Of course seeing how Columbus allows Springfield to do whatever the heck they want with our prospects, I expect York and Corbeil will compete in the ECHL so Springfield can start some over-the-hill veteran and some undrafted free agent college goalie.

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03-29-2012, 02:56 PM
  #50
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Kid has a good story.

http://www.michigandaily.com/sports/...nwick?page=0,0

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