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ONE MORE DAY until the games are for reals (Season Opener Thursday 12 PT/3 ET)

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Old
03-30-2012, 01:17 PM
  #151
weems
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
3rd place-wildcard spot = competitive. They wont be that this year


Weekend games are always fairly good for the Jays but generally people just don't care much
Why cant they be 3rd place this season?

Boston has MASSIVE problems in there rotation. They have Beckett and Lester, then Bucholz who has a wonky back and after that a bunch of crap. Theres already rumours that the players arent liking Valentine and that many players dont like the way he coachs.

TB's offence and Bullpen are a potential problem.

You just sound like some ******** Leafs fan hoping the Jays suck.

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03-30-2012, 01:34 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by weems View Post
Why cant they be 3rd place this season?

Boston has MASSIVE problems in there rotation. They have Beckett and Lester, then Bucholz who has a wonky back and after that a bunch of crap. Theres already rumours that the players arent liking Valentine and that many players dont like the way he coachs.

TB's offence and Bullpen are a potential problem.

You just sound like some ******** Leafs fan hoping the Jays suck.
Agreed on all counts. How anyone who has followed the team can think that negatively is beyond me. Sure we need a little luck and need to avoid the sophomore slump but I think we will be in the mix this year for sure.

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Old
03-30-2012, 01:35 PM
  #153
theaub
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I for one do have the Jays in 3rd ahead of Boston (but not making the playoffs)

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Old
03-30-2012, 01:37 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
3rd place-wildcard spot = competitive. They wont be that this year

Weekend games are always fairly good for the Jays but generally people just don't care much
You're lack of arguments make your statements hold no value. Jays would have been competing for a wildcard last year had the bullpen not blown a ridiculous amount of games.

If the bullpen blew 6 less games, we would have been what.. 4 or 5 games out?

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Old
03-30-2012, 01:41 PM
  #155
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So what are the chances we hear "Let's Go Leafs" at the Home Opener?

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Old
03-30-2012, 01:43 PM
  #156
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I for one do have the Jays in 3rd ahead of Boston (but not making the playoffs)
Thats my thoughts as well

Tampa Bay: 94-68
New York: 89-73
Toronto: 88-74
Boston: 82-80
Baltimore: 63-99

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Old
03-30-2012, 01:43 PM
  #157
theaub
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Well I don't think thats how the Leafs chant goes.

I'd rather see odds that we have the following

1) Fan run onto the field
2) Massive amounts of rally towels thrown onto the field delaying the game
3) General lack of security leading to multiple fights in the stands

Maybe this will be the year when we don't act like complete morons! I'm looking forward to it.

Also I have

New York 96-66
Tampa Bay 94-68
Toronto 90-72
Boston 88-74
Baltimore 65-97

I have Boston with more wins than AL Central winner Detroit. I just hate that division this year.

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03-30-2012, 01:47 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Thats my thoughts as well

Tampa Bay: 94-68
New York: 89-73
Toronto: 88-74
Boston: 82-80
Baltimore: 63-99
Pretty much agree with this except I would switch the Rays with the Yanks.

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Old
03-30-2012, 01:53 PM
  #159
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Not that it means nearly anything...

But incarcerated bob has the jays as the official surprise team this year, thinks 90+ wins, thinks our SP is sneaky. Cites Lawrie, Rasmus, and Bautista as the guys to do some damage. Thinks if Santos is the real deal, we have a hell of a team.

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Old
03-30-2012, 02:01 PM
  #160
theaub
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Pfft that guy's a hack (unlike myself)

Also we're losing

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Old
03-30-2012, 02:03 PM
  #161
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Lawrie 0-2. Bust. Should have kept Marcum.

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Old
03-30-2012, 02:20 PM
  #162
Epictetus
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
You're lack of arguments make your statements hold no value. Jays would have been competing for a wildcard last year had the bullpen not blown a ridiculous amount of games.

If the bullpen blew 6 less games, we would have been what.. 4 or 5 games out?
This is not a strong argument either, since it ignores the starting pitching which was a huge factor in why the bullpen had blown so many games. The bullpen was actually middle of the pack, and not the reason the Jays' were not competing for a playoff spot.

The Jays' pitchers won a total of 51 games and lost 61 games. Tampa bay, for example, won 67 and lost 56, Boston won 64 games and lost 50, the Yankees won 71 games and lost 45 games. The only team the Jays did better than was the Orioles, who lost 72 and won 46.

The Jays' bullpen in comparison, finished tied for 2nd in wins (30) and finished tied for top 6 in the lowest amount of losses (20). So you can see just from this data, a lot of those blown saves were converted into wins.

As for the 'blown save' category, yes that is bad but also not not very telling. For example, Boston's bullpen collapsed during the end of the year, a major reason for their non-playoff birth, but they only blew 16 games. The point here was that they did it at critical times. Additionally Atlanta, a team with the guy who had the most saves in baseball last year, finished with 25 blown saves. Washington who has two of the better relievers in baseball in Storen and Clippard blew 27 saves, which led the league. The Angels also had 25 blown saves.

If you want an example to follow, look at the Rays. They had 51 holds (1 more than the Jays) and only blew 12 saves. They finished with 32 saves, 1 save less than the Jays actually. This with Farnsworth injured too, I might add. However, their bullpen only pitched 391 innings!!! This, the lowest total in baseball by far. The Jays bullpen pitched a full, 103 innings more. Imagine having to pitch 103 innings less?

The Rays rotation pitched the 2nd highest in baseball at 1058 innings. The Jays had 964 innings pitched from their rotation. So my point is, a rotation makes quite a difference and the Jays' rotation did not help out the bullpen.

The facts are that the Jays' rotation did not win enough games, did not pitch a high amount of innings, and finished extremely poor among most sabremetric stats. They compare extremely weak to the rest of the division's pitching (outside of Baltimore).

I therefore conclude that the Jays' bullpen was not the reason for their inability to compete for a playoff spot. While it was a factor, it was not to the extent of the rotation.

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Old
03-30-2012, 02:34 PM
  #163
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This is not a strong argument either, since it ignores the starting pitching which was a huge factor in why the bullpen had blown so many games. The bullpen was actually middle of the pack, and not the reason the Jays' were not competing for a playoff spot.

The Jays' pitchers won a total of 51 games and lost 61 games. Tampa bay, for example, won 67 and lost 56, Boston won 64 games and lost 50, the Yankees won 71 games and lost 45 games. The only team the Jays did better than was the Orioles, who lost 72 and won 46.

The Jays' bullpen in comparison, finished tied for 2nd in wins (30) and finished tied for top 6 in the lowest amount of losses (20). So you can see just from this data, a lot of those blown saves were converted into wins.

As for the 'blown save' category, yes that is bad but also not not very telling. For example, Boston's bullpen collapsed during the end of the year, a major reason for their non-playoff birth, but they only blew 16 games. The point here was that they did it at critical times. Additionally Atlanta, a team with the guy who had the most saves in baseball last year, finished with 25 blown saves. Washington who has two of the better relievers in baseball in Storen and Clippard blew 27 saves, which led the league. The Angels also had 25 blown saves.

If you want an example to follow, look at the Rays. They had 51 holds (1 more than the Jays) and only blew 12 saves. They finished with 32 saves, 1 save less than the Jays actually. This with Farnsworth injured too, I might add. However, their bullpen only pitched 391 innings!!! This, the lowest total in baseball by far. The Jays bullpen pitched a full, 103 innings more. Imagine having to pitch 103 innings less?

The Rays rotation pitched the 2nd highest in baseball at 1058 innings. The Jays had 964 innings pitched from their rotation. So my point is, a rotation makes quite a difference and the Jays' rotation did not help out the bullpen.

The facts are that the Jays' rotation did not win enough games, did not pitch a high amount of innings, and finished extremely poor among most sabremetric stats. They compare extremely weak to the rest of the division's pitching (outside of Baltimore).

I therefore conclude that the Jays' bullpen was not the reason for their inability to compete for a playoff spot. While it was a factor, it was not to the extent of the rotation.
This is true but we also won't have Reyes starting 20 games for us this year. We won't have Mills starting games for us this year. We hopefully, won't see Litsch, Perez or CV starting games for us this year. If Cecil and Morrow can pitch like they have in the past and no Reyes should go a long way to improving our rotation. McGowan is the one that could hurt if he can't pitch deep into games. There have been a good number of changes to the starting rotation and bullpen that should go a long way to improving both end of our pitching.

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Old
03-30-2012, 02:50 PM
  #164
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post


People don't seem to realize how awful the starting rotation was last year. Finding adequate starters after Romero/Morrow is going to be the deciding factor as to this team finishing .500 or challenging 90-92 wins.

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Old
03-30-2012, 03:02 PM
  #165
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Agreed on all counts. How anyone who has followed the team can think that negatively is beyond me. Sure we need a little luck and need to avoid the sophomore slump but I think we will be in the mix this year for sure.
Agreed as well. Sure the Jays need a little luck to get there, but so will the Sox and Rays to ensure the weaknesses of their rosters don't become their downfalls.

The exciting part is that the Jays have such quality youth and talent that there is definitely some serious potential if things go right. Just cross your fingers for some competative ball.

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Old
03-30-2012, 03:11 PM
  #166
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Is anyone else sick of all these "Lawrie is a ******" comments? He seems like a nice guy. Cocky, sure, but it's not like he's Pauly D. Seems like a beauty. Plus tattoos are nails. Check out this interview, he's a good kid. 22 years old, people.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?co...13425&c_id=mlb

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Old
03-30-2012, 03:34 PM
  #167
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People don't seem to realize how awful the starting rotation was last year. Finding adequate starters after Romero/Morrow is going to be the deciding factor as to this team finishing .500 or challenging 90-92 wins.
when king felix comes to Toronto by the deadline we won't have to worry about our pitching

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Old
03-30-2012, 04:41 PM
  #168
GoHardSports
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He won't be with the Jays. There's no room. They've already got Jeff Mathis as the backup C after trading for him (or signing him as a FA. I can't remember which). He might not even end up in AAA either. They've got d'Arnaud starting and apparently Brian Jeroloman was reacquired in the off-season even after they lost him on waivers to the Pirates or some such team. And with Cooper and McDade manning 1st, it's possible that Gomes ends up having to go to New Hampshire (AA) and be the catcher there. Probably splitting time with another prospect too. Jimenez maybe?
Traded for him. Sent over Brad Mills for him.

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Old
03-30-2012, 04:43 PM
  #169
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Traded for him. Sent over Brad Mills for him.
that's right. I that remember now.

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Old
03-30-2012, 04:47 PM
  #170
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Just happens to be their top prospect too

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03-30-2012, 04:51 PM
  #171
shakes
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Just happens to be their top prospect too
That can't be real. Must be photoshopped. If not, someone should be fired.

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Old
03-30-2012, 04:53 PM
  #172
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That can't be real. Must be photoshopped. If not, someone should be fired.

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Old
03-30-2012, 05:02 PM
  #173
lebdafor norris
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Just happens to be their top prospect too
Is this reality?

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Old
03-30-2012, 05:36 PM
  #174
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laffey sucks
get rid of him

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Old
03-30-2012, 05:47 PM
  #175
dredeye
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That is about the worst broadcasting in recorded history. Why continually openly admit you have no idea who's on base in the game your calling. lol

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