HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Anaheim-NYI

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-28-2012, 03:22 AM
  #1
AmericanRocket91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Anaheim
Country: United States
Posts: 205
vCash: 500
Anaheim-NYI

Bobby Ryan for Nino Niederreiter and the Islanders 2012 First round pick. Would the value be fair?


I honestly see Ryan as the odd man out in Anaheim because he just can't find chemistry with the twins. I know he's talked about wanting to anchor his own line next year, but he doesn't have the play making ability to get that done.

Nino Niederreiter has had a horrible season without a doubt, but maybe a change of scenery will do him good. I still think he's got a lot of potential and we'll need a winger for when Teemu retires.

AmericanRocket91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:23 AM
  #2
DuckJet
Ducks are math=Bad
 
DuckJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Funkytown
Country: Kazakhstan
Posts: 32,976
vCash: 69
Oh boy...here we go.

DuckJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:27 AM
  #3
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Exit Dose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,491
vCash: 500
If we move Ryan it isn't going to be for futures. He's also the only top six forward signed past next season.

Exit Dose is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:28 AM
  #4
DuckJet
Ducks are math=Bad
 
DuckJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Funkytown
Country: Kazakhstan
Posts: 32,976
vCash: 69
I'm going to put this as lightly and nicely as I can.

**** NO!

a former 5th overall pick who deserved to go around 10-14+a top...what 6-8 pick? For a former second overall pick? The second best player behind Sidney Crosby?

Not a shot in hell. We get more production from Kyle Palmieri than you do out of Niederreiter. Hell, we get more production from Matt Beleskey. Change of scenery can top out at what? 30 points? That's not enough to replace 30 goals.

We might end up picking higher than NYI. That gives that pick lower value than you might think. Unless the pick was a guaranteed shot at Galchenyuk and Dumba/Trouba was available for Anaheim's pick, we'd consider listening to what you'd add to the trade to make it more fair. Niederreiter alone is too much of a gamble. Moulson+1st and we'd CONSIDER it. It was an off-year for the whole team. Bobby still has 40 goal potential.

DuckJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:29 AM
  #5
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Exit Dose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Oh boy...here we go.


You'd almost think we didn't already have a top 8 pick locked up by reading some of our fan proposals.

Exit Dose is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:31 AM
  #6
AmericanRocket91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Anaheim
Country: United States
Posts: 205
vCash: 500
Nino's playing right now with the Islanders...

A couple months back we almost traded Bobby to the Flyers for a 1st-JVR or 1st-Schenn Holmgren gave us a choice between the two. I'd say JVR is more established out of the three, but Schenn is right up there with Nino.

AmericanRocket91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:32 AM
  #7
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Exit Dose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
...we'd consider listening to what you'd add to the trade to make it more fair.
He's a Ducks fan.

Exit Dose is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:33 AM
  #8
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Exit Dose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanRocket91 View Post
A couple months back we almost traded Bobby to the Flyers for a 1st-JVR or 1st-Schenn Holmgren gave us a choice between the two. I'd say JVR is more established out of the three, but Schenn is right up there with Nino.
Source?

Exit Dose is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:33 AM
  #9
CodeE
Registered User
 
CodeE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
a former 5th overall pick who deserved to go around 10-14+a top...what 6-8 pick? For a former second overall pick? The second best player behind Sidney Crosby?
So every Islanders pick deserves to be taken 9 spots later in the draft and Bobby Ryan is the second best player behind Sidney Crosby.

I hold onto Nino and our 1st. We need a defenseman more than another winger.

CodeE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:36 AM
  #10
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Exit Dose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeE View Post
So every Islanders pick deserves to be taken 9 spots later in the draft and Bobby Ryan is the second best player behind Sidney Crosby.

I hold onto Nino and our 1st. We need a defenseman more than another winger.
You're projecting. That isn't what he said.

Exit Dose is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:40 AM
  #11
CodeE
Registered User
 
CodeE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
You're projecting. That isn't what he said.
Islanders player = Should have been taken 14th instead of 5th
Ducks player = Second best player behind Sidney Crosby

That's the gist of what he said and that's the standard "underrate other team's players, overrate your own team's players" practice at hfboards.

CodeE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:43 AM
  #12
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 23,498
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
I'm going to put this as lightly and nicely as I can.

**** NO!

a former 5th overall pick who deserved to go around 10-14+a top...what 6-8 pick? For a former second overall pick? The second best player behind Sidney Crosby?

Not a shot in hell. We get more production from Kyle Palmieri than you do out of Niederreiter. Hell, we get more production from Matt Beleskey. Change of scenery can top out at what? 30 points? That's not enough to replace 30 goals.

We might end up picking higher than NYI. That gives that pick lower value than you might think. Unless the pick was a guaranteed shot at Galchenyuk and Dumba/Trouba was available for Anaheim's pick, we'd consider listening to what you'd add to the trade to make it more fair. Niederreiter alone is too much of a gamble. Moulson+1st and we'd CONSIDER it. It was an off-year for the whole team. Bobby still has 40 goal potential.
I don't think where Ryan was picked has any bearing on this discussion. His draft position is irrelevant now. Being drafted 2nd overall doesn't make him the second best player behind Crosby. It just means that's how Burke valued him. I certainly don't think he's turned out to be the second best player behind Crosby.

Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:45 AM
  #13
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Exit Dose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeE View Post
Islanders player = Should have been taken 14th instead of 5th
He said that about Nino, which isn't an outlandish assessment, nor is it a grand conspiracy to undermine the reputation of the Isles. I have seen similar thoughts expressed about Nino on your team board. He didn't say Strome or anyone else were reaches or bad picks.

Exit Dose is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:46 AM
  #14
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Exit Dose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanRocket91 View Post
A buddy of mine works for the Ducks and gets information about the trades. I knew about the Francois Beauchemin trade a week before it happened. I don't know if that's a good enough source to you, but if you think about it those are the only two we could pry away from them.


Okay...

Exit Dose is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:48 AM
  #15
CodeE
Registered User
 
CodeE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanRocket91 View Post
Nino's got one goal in 49 games... I don't think I"m underrating him by offering up Bobby.

The fact that Bobby was picked 2nd overall behind Crosby is insignificant.
That's expected when you're given 4th line minutes on a line with such powerhouse playmakers like Jay Pandolfo and Marty Reasoner. I'm sure if Ducks management put Bobby on the 4th line in 2006, he wouldn't have lit up the scoreboard either.

Nino's 19 and won't be turning 20 til September. If Bobby took what, 4 years til he saw NHL icetime, can you really write Nino off this early?

CodeE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:50 AM
  #16
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 23,498
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeE View Post
That's expected when you're given 4th line minutes on a line with such powerhouse playmakers like Jay Pandolfo and Marty Reasoner. I'm sure if Ducks management put Bobby on the 4th line in 2006, he wouldn't have lit up the scoreboard either.

Nino's 19 and won't be turning 20 til September. If Bobby took what, 4 years til he saw NHL icetime, can you really write Nino off this early?
On the contrary, Bobby Ryan started his rookie season on the 4th line. He did, in fact, light it up.

Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:53 AM
  #17
CodeE
Registered User
 
CodeE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
He said that about Nino, which isn't an outlandish assessment, nor is it a grand conspiracy to undermine the reputation of the Isles. I have seen similar thoughts expressed about Nino on your team board. He didn't say Strome or anyone else were reaches or bad picks.
I'm hearing "oh you want Bobby Ryan? We'll CONSIDER Moulson + 1st."

But Moulson has 14 more points this season than Ryan. And they're only three years apart. Yet us lowly Islanders need to also throw in a top 5 pick in order to get the Ducks to remotely consider parting with Ryan?

Overrating Ducks. Underrating Islanders.

CodeE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:55 AM
  #18
CodeE
Registered User
 
CodeE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
On the contrary, Bobby Ryan started his rookie season on the 4th line. He did, in fact, light it up.
Yeah, in 2008. Three full years after he was drafted. And I'd hardly call 10 points in 23 games "lighting it up".

CodeE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 03:56 AM
  #19
Gliff
Nick Bonino
 
Gliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 7,142
vCash: 500
Not interested. Worst case scenario, we trade Bobby for futures, Teemu retires after this year, Visnovsky retires after this year, Perry and Getzlaf leave in UFA.

In a 5 year span we will have lost all of the following:

Pronger
Neidermayer
Ryan
Teemu
Visnovsky
Perry
Getzlaf

That's 3 top pairing defenders and 4 top line forwards and we will have gotten ZERO established players out of them.

If we are going to trade Bobbyw e need to wait till after this season so he can get his value back up AND to see if we can get Perry and Getz signed.

Gliff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 04:00 AM
  #20
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 23,498
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeE View Post
Yeah, in 2009. Four full years after he was drafted. And I'd hardly call 10 points in 23 games "lighting it up".
With George Parros as his linemate, it's as close as you'll ever get. You're the one who made the argument. Don't try to change the rules now.

Your point is taken. He hasn't been put in a position to succeed. That's a fair point, but it's also an excuse. A skilled player is going to be skilled regardless of his linemates. If he isn't ready to be an NHL player yet, it's probably best for him to get more ice time elsewhere.

Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 04:05 AM
  #21
Campoli2Burrows
Registered User
 
Campoli2Burrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Not interested. Worst case scenario, we trade Bobby for futures, Teemu retires after this year, Visnovsky retires after this year, Perry and Getzlaf leave in UFA.

In a 5 year span we will have lost all of the following:

Pronger
Neidermayer
Ryan
Teemu
Visnovsky
Perry
Getzlaf

That's 3 top pairing defenders and 4 top line forwards and we will have gotten ZERO established players out of them.

If we are going to trade Bobbyw e need to wait till after this season so he can get his value back up AND to see if we can get Perry and Getz signed.
Don't forget Schultz

Campoli2Burrows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 04:07 AM
  #22
CodeE
Registered User
 
CodeE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
With George Parros as his linemate, it's as close as you'll ever get. You're the one who made the argument. Don't try to change the rules now.

Your point is taken. He hasn't been put in a position to succeed. That's a fair point, but it's also an excuse. A skilled player is going to be skilled regardless of his linemates. If he isn't ready to be an NHL player yet, it's probably best for him to get more ice time elsewhere.
Nino has been mismanaged this year, I don't think you'll find a single knowledgeable Islanders fan who'd disagree with that.

This doesn't mean:

1. Nino is a bust
2. Nino has reached his full potential
3. Nino is worth less than Kyle Palmieri or Matt Beleskey
4. Nino's ceiling - the absolute most he will score - is 30 points
5. The Islanders are looking to trade Nino at his current value

This isn't the NFL, it's extremely rare that a player can step right in and play. Bobby Ryan was not one of those players, so the Ducks kept him in the minors until they felt he was ready. Charles Wang is more interested in Nino's unobtainable bonuses that contribute to the cap, so he gets 4th line minutes even though Helen Keller could tell he should probably still be in Portland.

CodeE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 04:07 AM
  #23
AmericanRocket91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Anaheim
Country: United States
Posts: 205
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Not interested. Worst case scenario, we trade Bobby for futures, Teemu retires after this year, Visnovsky retires after this year, Perry and Getzlaf leave in UFA.

In a 5 year span we will have lost all of the following:

Pronger
Neidermayer
Ryan
Teemu
Visnovsky
Perry
Getzlaf

That's 3 top pairing defenders and 4 top line forwards and we will have gotten ZERO established players out of them.

If we are going to trade Bobbyw e need to wait till after this season so he can get his value back up AND to see if we can get Perry and Getz signed.


Murray will not let Getzlaf or Perry walk. They're are two most important players. We came close to trading away Bobby at the trade deadline and I wouldn't be surprised if he's actually dealt on draft day. Yes he gives us 30 plus goals, but his play is way to inconsistent. I think we're better off in the long run getting rid of his salary and giving one of our prospects a chance.

AmericanRocket91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 04:07 AM
  #24
Gliff
Nick Bonino
 
Gliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 7,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeE View Post
Yeah, in 2009. Four full years after he was drafted. And I'd hardly call 10 points in 23 games "lighting it up".
4th liner in Carlyle's system getting anything with their 3-6 minutes a night is pretty impressive. As for taking so long to bring him up, I dont understand how that is a knock on him. The Ducks have always taken a long time to develop prospects.

Look at Getzlaf and Perry. They played as well as they possibly could and still were kept down in the AHL until they got a chance with injuries and then they earned a spot.

Getzlaf: 33 points in 17 games

Perry: 34 points in 19 games

Palmieri: 61 goals in 104 games

Ducks always take prospects slow. One of the reasons Fowler and DSP are so coveted by DUcks fans. To make the team that early is very impressive.

Gliff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2012, 04:10 AM
  #25
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Exit Dose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeE View Post
I'm hearing "oh you want Bobby Ryan? We'll CONSIDER Moulson + 1st."

But Moulson has 14 more points this season than Ryan. And they're only three years apart. Yet us lowly Islanders need to also throw in a top 5 pick in order to get the Ducks to remotely consider parting with Ryan?

Overrating Ducks. Underrating Islanders.
Pretty much, except it has nothing to do with you being the "lowly Islanders". That is something that you're bringing to this.

You also don't have a top 5 pick. You're one spot ahead of us at 6.

Exit Dose is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:03 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.