so 3 years with the same coach and it couldnt be the system after 5 years in the playoffs? face facts the flames are not going to tear it down like you want them to so you might as well stop crying for it. they are going to continue to try and win whether you want them too or not. so why not just shut your yap and support the team for a change and try to suggest things that are at least somewhat plausible?
as someone who claims they are a red wings fan you should know that you dont need to blow it up to win
We don't need to blow it up. But swapping out jaybo and jokinen are good starts. Baertschi is a great boost for us in the comin years but we have pieces that are broken and need to be fixed. I'm a lot happier with the drafting of Jay Feaster as well so I think we are on the right track, just got to get rid of the rotting parts of the team.
Flames can't be like the wings so a different strategy needs to be adopted. The wings can swap any player into the roster and see success (ala cleary and miller and countless others), we don't have that kind of culture or mentorsship here. As much people don't think am, I do want to cheer for the flames and the playoffs, it's just extremely frustrating for me to do so in their current state.
We don't need to blow it up. But swapping out jaybo and jokinen are good starts. Baertschi is a great boost for us in the comin years but we have pieces that are broken and need to be fixed. I'm a lot happier with the drafting of Jay Feaster as well so I think we are on the right track, just got to get rid of the rotting parts of the team.
Flames can't be like the wings so a different strategy needs to be adopted. The wings can swap any player into the roster and see success (ala cleary and miller and countless others), we don't have that kind of culture or mentorsship here. As much people don't think am, I do want to cheer for the flames and the playoffs, it's just extremely frustrating for me to do so in their current state.
I think the Flames do need to "blow it up".
What valuable assets do they have to build a team around?
Hmmmm? Let's see... Iggy? He's 35 and in his twilight. Kipper? Older, like Iggy. J-Bo? Solid 2-4 defender but overpaid. Cammer? Meh. Jackman? Good Lord. Baertschi? Sure. Looks to be a solid prospect. Backs? Irving? Jones? Brodie? Reinhart? Byron? All promising, but, still unproven.
The Flames need to infuse some youth into their core and sign some FA's who play particular roles. They need some players who can score goals and they need some defenders who can defend. Flames defensive record is middle of the pack this year only because Kipper has been God-like all year.
What valuable assets do they have to build a team around?
Hmmmm? Let's see... Iggy? He's 35 and in his twilight. Kipper? Older, like Iggy. J-Bo? Solid 2-4 defender but overpaid. Cammer? Meh. Jackman? Good Lord. Baertschi? Sure. Looks to be a solid prospect. Backs? Irving? Jones? Brodie? Reinhart? Byron? All promising, but, still unproven.
The Flames need to infuse some youth into their core and sign some FA's who play particular roles. They need some players who can score goals and they need some defenders who can defend. Flames defensive record is middle of the pack this year only because Kipper has been God-like all year.
Do it, Fester! Push the button!
i disagree with these
1st one: jaybo is a number 1 dman playing in a system holding him down, if he were in Detroit he'd be a 40-50 point guy easily and still play solid defence, i don't like sutters system one bit.
point number 2: again its how the coaches use there players, some guys can use players the way there suppose to but sutter put tko on the second line with cammy and Comeau i believe (correct me if im wrong).
1st one: jaybo is a number 1 dman playing in a system holding him down, if he were in Detroit he'd be a 40-50 point guy easily and still play solid defence, i don't like sutters system one bit.
point number 2: again its how the coaches use there players, some guys can use players the way there suppose to but sutter put tko on the second line with cammy and Comeau i believe (correct me if im wrong).
he sure did put Kostopoulos with Cammalleri and Comeau, and still left Stajan on the 3rd line. Stajan centering Cammalleri and Comeau makes much more sense than having Cammalleri play out of position to center Comeau and Kostopoulos
What valuable assets do they have to build a team around?
Hmmmm? Let's see... Iggy? He's 35 and in his twilight. Kipper? Older, like Iggy. J-Bo? Solid 2-4 defender but overpaid. Cammer? Meh. Jackman? Good Lord. Baertschi? Sure. Looks to be a solid prospect. Backs? Irving? Jones? Brodie? Reinhart? Byron? All promising, but, still unproven.
The Flames need to infuse some youth into their core and sign some FA's who play particular roles. They need some players who can score goals and they need some defenders who can defend. Flames defensive record is middle of the pack this year only because Kipper has been God-like all year.
Do it, Fester! Push the button!
You don't seem to know much about the flames this boarder line trolling.
Olli Jokinen- gone
Lee Stempniak- re-sign
David Moss- gone
Tom Kostopolous- gone
Corey Sarich- gone
Scott Hannan- re-sign if Feaster thinks we cannot upgrade
Ratis Ivanans- gone
Blake Comeau- gone
Mikael Backlund- must re-sign
Blair Jones- re-sign
Leland Irving- must re-sign
Paul Byron- re-sign
Stefan Meyer- gone already???
If we don't re-sign Jokinen we should be in a full scale rebuild, but I do think a full scale rebuild is necessary, so I guess I'd be fine with it. Going into a season with Backlund and Stajan as your top centers means you're not in the top 12 in the west.
You don't seem to know much about the flames this boarder line trolling.
Why am I trolling, dude?
I am just explaining the way I see things. I am a fan of all 7 Canadian teams, the Canucks just happen to be my favourite because I grew up in Vancouver.
Am I a troll because my view of the state of the Flames is different than yours?
What part of my post do you feel is troll-like? Point it out and we can debate.
Agreed! Must be one of your friends from the Vancouver board!
I am from the CDC, Gary. Proud to say it, too. Am I a troll because I have just started to visit HFB in the last couple of days?
Let's talk about why I am trolling. The last thing I want to do is piss people off.
I know enough about the Flames, past and present, to tell you that Dan Bouchard is my favourite Flame of all-time. I also feel they need to make some big changes to be successful again.
I'd officially get rid of Jokinen, and would not resign him this offseason. Though, there is a disadvantage of not resigning him. Our centre position becomes very bare..(unless we put Cammy in the centre position.)
I'd officially get rid of Jokinen, and would not resign him this offseason. Though, there is a disadvantage of not resigning him. Our centre position becomes very bare..(unless we put Cammy in the centre position.)
I think we offer Joker a 1 year, 3 million or less deal. If he wants to stay in Calgary, he takes it. No NMC/NTC. We can't limit our options going into the draft. He can provide solid offense, but he is solely a complimentary player.
I am just explaining the way I see things. I am a fan of all 7 Canadian teams, the Canucks just happen to be my favourite because I grew up in Vancouver.
Am I a troll because my view of the state of the Flames is different than yours?
What part of my post do you feel is troll-like? Point it out and we can debate.
Didn't you join Sat night or Sun morning? After the Canucks squeaked a win over the Flames in overtime, and your first comments were on the Flames board? It kind of looks like you created a new Id for the sole mischievous purpose of beating down Flames fans who are feeling sad and depressed after the 3rd year of drought. Good going Captain Canuck hero.
It seems overly cruel and sadistic especially when you claim to be, "a fan of all 7 Canadian teams".. .. you'd think a sympathetic "Canadian" Fan would exhibit lil more empathy and solidarity, but maybe i am expecting too much from a Canucks fan. .. .
Some fans are so scared to "get it on! Bang the Gong! " in GDT when the game is undecided, this be the time to put your money where your mouth is,..show your pride for your beloved team ..but nooooo, only when the Flames lose, then they invade this board with their lil snide remarks and their vacuous comments... ..mosquitoes.
I think we offer Joker a 1 year, 3 million or less deal. If he wants to stay in Calgary, he takes it. No NMC/NTC. We can't limit our options going into the draft. He can provide solid offense, but he is solely a complimentary player.
I'd offer him 2 years at 8 million without a NMC. Or 1 year at 5 million without a NMC. Honestly, he hasn't been consistent enough to offer him anything beyond 2 years at 7 million with an NMC.
I am just explaining the way I see things. I am a fan of all 7 Canadian teams, the Canucks just happen to be my favourite because I grew up in Vancouver.
Am I a troll because my view of the state of the Flames is different than yours?
What part of my post do you feel is troll-like? Point it out and we can debate.
Calgary has gotten much younger in the last year and the last 2 drafts may be 2 of the best drafts in team history, it is very easy to say get younger but people don't seem to realize they are getting younger. I guess "troll" was to strong of a word you just seem to think that Feaster is sitting on his hands he has made several big moves to get younger or higher end talent.
Jokinen- Easily the hardest decision to make here, guy is amazing at time and then goes invisible. We are limited with Centre line scoring, but he is still no more than a second line center who is terrible at faceoffs. Stajan lead the team there and 5% higer, but Ollie did take double the draws didn't always play the other teams top lines. Stajan is part of the keep Ollie problem; he was somewhat rejuvenated near the end of the season; the way he played should he or Backlund be the number 2 centre...if Ollie isn't our number one Centre...then...Good Bye.
Lee Stempniak- lacks some grit, but was decent for the $$$; need to consider what else we can do for the $2M he is worth. Does he bring enough to improve our team...does he offer more value than say a Moss......I'm on the fence here...but...offers some scoring depth and could be easy move...keep.
David Moss- total utility player with some average passing skills. Typically responsible on D, need to look back a season to really decide as last year was mostly spent injured; damn slow skater, but brings some size...probably will only sign for a year or two, but needs to be at or near last contract. Keep.
Tom Kostopolous- I like his heart, grit also a utility player, doesn't win you any games, but doesn't lose them for you either...-15 (on a team with lots of minus players)... Keep
Scott Hannan- For a $1M vetran defenseman you couldn't ask for much more from him. Babchuck looked pretty good the last few weeks and I suspect he'll take a top 6 spot next year; so is Hannan worth the roster spot... I'm sure he's looking for a $1 year deal and the guy isn't exactly fleet footed... Good bye (see Sarich)
Corey Sarich- Now Sarich was -2 on a team with a bunch of guys in the double digits. Plenty of discussion of his dollar value given the $3.6M with a Full NMC (D.Sutter seriously????), most opinions i've heard and agree with are he wasn't worth that contract; however would you keep him for a contract like Hannan's from last year; say $1.3M?...if discount can be provided...Keep.
Ratis Ivanans- no brainer (no pun intended) lose.
RFA:
Blake Comeau: way to inconsistent to qualify and offers little to no trade value. Good bye
Mikael Backlund- a must resign, he is still developing and has shown signs he can be a very good player in this league one day. Keep
Blair Jones- Keep him if we can; a two way deal would be great...keep.
Leland Irving- i'm hesitant to see if Irving can maintain his "game" with only 20 appearances in the NHL...or could we go the St. Louis Blues route next year...he'll be the man if Kipper goes down...Keep.
Paul Byron- may have some upside; had great numbers in the Q and not too bad in the A also...Keep
Stefan Meyer- Goodbye
Team needs: Top line centre (duh), Someone or another centre who can win a face-off, some speedier cost effective grit like a Maxime Talbot, Greg Campbell, Chris Clark in his prime-type (I realize these guys aren't available, just mentioning type of player), some more size on the backend, someone who would take over Jay-Bo's salary for a couple of second round picks (i can dream can't i).
Coach Sutter...I like the guy...big fan...but three years and no playoffs...that's another thread i'm sure.
I think we offer Joker a 1 year, 3 million or less deal. If he wants to stay in Calgary, he takes it. No NMC/NTC. We can't limit our options going into the draft. He can provide solid offense, but he is solely a complimentary player.
On Calgary he is our first line center, and it isn't even close.
He is a complimentary player on a contender.
Zero chance he takes that deal, he'll get at least a 3 year deal elsewhere for decent money.
Didn't you join Sat night or Sun morning? After the Canucks squeaked a win over the Flames in overtime, and your first comments were on the Flames board? It kind of looks like you created a new Id for the sole mischievous purpose of beating down Flames fans who are feeling sad and depressed after the 3rd year of drought. Good going Captain Canuck hero.
It seems overly cruel and sadistic especially when you claim to be, "a fan of all 7 Canadian teams".. .. you'd think a sympathetic "Canadian" Fan would exhibit lil more empathy and solidarity, but maybe i am expecting too much from a Canucks fan. .. .
Some fans are so scared to "get it on! Bang the Gong! " in GDT when the game is undecided, this be the time to put your money where your mouth is,..show your pride for your beloved team ..but nooooo, only when the Flames lose, then they invade this board with their lil snide remarks and their vacuous comments... ..mosquitoes.
No, dude. I joined in August.
I am not here to troll. I genuinely enjoy seeing Canadian-based teams succeed. I post on CDC... I post on the Flames board... I post on CalgaryPuck... I post many places.
I am 45 years old and have no intention of trolling anyone. I do love to discuss and debate hockey, though. I do not mean to be "snide" or post "vacuous" comments... unless, of course, you accuse me of doing so. Then, I will say something like, "Your vocabulary is very advanced. You sound so well educated. I am sorry... I never meant to post my opinion on a public forum. The Flames are the best team in the NHL! They will win the Cup this year. Oh, wait... they haven't made the playoffs this year, or the previous 2..."
Buyouts, waivings, trades of high salaried NTC / NMC guys.
Iggy and Kipper retire as Flames, as they should.
No reason to call this trolling. Logical to see a fan want to see the squad continue to go younger and get rid of the older, expensive guys. But let's understand here that we're going a route that calls for smart drafting and less about tanking for a top pick.
I'll give you a warmer welcome to the boards; always nice to see some new active posters here.
I think you must keep Jay Bouwmeester for atleast a year under a new head coach, in order to see what he can do in a more free flowing offensive system.
I honestly feel he is being heavily underutilized by Brent and/or Hartsburg
Allow him (persuade him) to jump up into the play as much as possible, he certainly has the skating ability to cover up for any mistakes he does make. I have noticed on several occasions throughout the year that when he is used on the powerplay to actively roam in and out from the point and high slot, that he is much more dangerous.
He simply does not have the shot power to be a threat from the point, he MUST use his skating ability to confuse and throw off the oppositions penalty kill.
I would also like to see our powerplay utilize his speed to enter the zone (Much like how Detroit does it), as we are far to stagnant in the neutral zone.
Agreed especially on the bold points.
I'd have to say that I'm on the side where you could easily accuse me of being some JBou-fanboy. Most people are talking about blowing it up with #4 sent to some random team for spare parts and having Gio lead the team in the aftermath. Gotta say, that's going to be a dark period in Flames' history, no offense to Gio.
Aside from the fact that he's beyond soft on the boards, what are we going to get out of moving Bouwmeester?
Some smaller pieces of assets that will be less than the sum of Bouwmeester's value.
Cap space?
His contract ends in 2(?) years. Not looking like we're bursting at the seams with players that need raises. That was all addressed last year.
Addition by subtraction?
Say what you'd like, Flames will be a ****tier defense team without him. I think we've got a bright spot on our blue line with Bouwmeester, Butler, Brodie, Gio, and Smith. Add a little sand paper, and a RH shot if Babchuk is gone (hope not, he's been the only reason we generate anything on PP and often 5v5). Give us a coach who can let these players fly, and we might just enjoy watching next season, even if we fall in the same place again.
What valuable assets do they have to build a team around?
Hmmmm? Let's see... Iggy? He's 35 and in his twilight. Kipper? Older, like Iggy. J-Bo? Solid 2-4 defender but overpaid. Cammer? Meh. Jackman? Good Lord. Baertschi? Sure. Looks to be a solid prospect. Backs? Irving? Jones? Brodie? Reinhart? Byron? All promising, but, still unproven.
The Flames need to infuse some youth into their core and sign some FA's who play particular roles. They need some players who can score goals and they need some defenders who can defend. Flames defensive record is middle of the pack this year only because Kipper has been God-like all year.
Do it, Fester! Push the button!
I think it's important we get the perspective of our most hated rivals as they see a side of our team we refuse to see. We may not like it, but there is a lot of truth in the comments. Thanks for the feedback.
Olli Jokinen - Let him go. He's been way too inconsistent as a Flame
Lee Stempniak - Keep if he's cheap
David Moss- Let him walk. Injury prone and replaceable
Tom Kostopolous - Keep at same salary. Hard worker and character
Corey Sarich - Let him go. Not mobile enough these days and we need to blood in our young guys
Scott Hannan - Let him go. Just didn't like him much this season
Blake Comeau- let him walk. not worth the 2 million cap it
Mikael Backlund- Keep
Blair Jones- RFA - Keep
Leland Irving- RFA Keep
Paul Byron- RFA Keep
Stefan Meyer- RFA Keep
The best thing that could happen to the Flames is this upcoming off-season. And I say this for a couple of reasons.
1. You will fully see what Jay Feaster can do with an organization. You have 6 UFA's and 2 RFA's coming off the books and for something that impacts 1/3 of your team, that's pretty significant.
2. You have 1 year left on Iggy's contract, so ultimately you must understand that he can't carry the team forever so if Feaster will truly make his impact, you won't see Jarome in a Flames uni.
As for prospects that have a legit shot to make the club.... Max Reinhart, Sven, Michael Ferland and Irving (still considered a prospect). So for the organizations sake, you either decide that you will for sure guarantee spots to 1 prospect (Baertschi) or you create position battles and bring in a vet on a 1 year deal. Someone like a Dustin Penner on a 1 year - 2.5 mill doesn't set the organization back and if Sven isn't ready then you get a potential 20 goal guy.
If I was the GM tho...
I'd say see ya to Stempniak, Moss, Kostopoulos, Sarich and Hannan. All of these guys can be easily replaced and are all role players.
I trade Chris Butler to another team for depth and get a mid round pick.
I look how to unload Stajan's contract. Buyout is the last option that you have in mind because you could eat his contract if Iggy and Kipper are traded.
I'd tender a 1 year deal to Comeau and wouldn't mind if he was a healthy scratch some nights.
As a Leafs fan, I would love to have Blair Jones on the team. But if Calgary was smart, a 2 year deal at around 1per is reasonable.
No reason to call this trolling. Logical to see a fan want to see the squad continue to go younger and get rid of the older, expensive guys. But let's understand here that we're going a route that calls for smart drafting and less about tanking for a top pick.
I'll give you a warmer welcome to the boards; always nice to see some new active posters here.
Thanks, GLaDOS!
I await the day that all 7 Canadian teams make the playoffs and the day the Canucks lift the Cup for the first time.
No team should ever tank for a top pick. Calgary's scouting just has to be better in the future. I think they should take a serious look at trading up as there looks to be a drop off after the top 5, maybe 6, kids this year.
I think it's important we get the perspective of our most hated rivals as they see a side of our team we refuse to see. We may not like it, but there is a lot of truth in the comments. Thanks for the feedback.
Cheers, CGYPUKSUX!
Much appreciated. I will never troll on a message board, but, I will call 'em how I see 'em. I hate it when people say things I don't agree with, too, but it does open your eyes and cause you to think about things.
I miss the Flames - Canucks rivalry. I hope the Flames do what is needed to become more competitive. Feaster has a huge challenge in front of him and a ton of Flames fans to please!
