Without getting too much into Don Cherry's comments recently about Ontario boys on the Maple Leafs, I think there may be something there.
I've seen comments to this effect in other threads, but I thought I'd start a thread specific to that topic (I haven't checked, this may be my first thread in this subforum).
Basically, Toronto is regarded as the "Mecca" of hockey. This is a double-edged sword:
1) Tons of exposure, you can be a superstar/celebrity in playing for the Leafs
2) The media can turn on you and you can go from Superstar Celebrity to Pariah
So there's that. There's also this concept of "Home ice advantage". Currently, we appear to not have this advantage. This can be chalked up to the usual reasons:
1) Too many suits in the ACC
2) Haven't had much to cheer about lately
etc. etc.
Another factor is, and this is where Don Cherry's comments come in, is that there are so many players from this area/country that do NOT play for the Leafs, I feel we lose home ice advantage. Teams come in all the time and get tickets for their friends/relatives, and they raise their game, naturally, in front of their family and friends.
The Leafs really don't have that at the moment, and I wonder if this is another factor working against the Maple Leafs. I don't subscribe completely to Don's comments, but I have to begrudgingly admit that the man kinda has a point.
I'm hoping we can have a frank and civil discussion on this topic.
Because when we had players like Stajan, Mayers, Raycroft and the likes, it worked so well for us.
I'm twirling at my finger at how much it makes a difference.
And for the record, Burke has drafted the most OHL (which most of them are from the GTA) players since he was hired then any other team. Why aren't you or Cherry mentioning this?
A lot of players like playing in Florida/California for the nice weather and low taxes. You play in Toronto, half of your earnings will be taxed to pay for government benefits that you don't even use. What's the point?
There's certainly something to the whole living the dream of being a Maple Leaf.
But at the same time we've seen players with the potential to join the Leafs, who are from Ontario, and chose not to. I'm sure someone could find a list.
You can find an elite superstar in the draft from Toronto that's great. (Insert Tyler Seguin joke here).
Without getting too much into Don Cherry's comments recently about Ontario boys on the Maple Leafs, I think there may be something there.
No Boston area players on the Bruins when they won the Stanley Cup. Or Tampa Bay or Anaheim or Carolina or even Detroit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saint2e
Basically, Toronto is regarded as the "Mecca" of hockey. This is a double-edged sword:
1) Tons of exposure, you can be a superstar/celebrity in playing for the Leafs
2) The media can turn on you and you can go from Superstar Celebrity to Pariah
Ever notice how Boston treated Phil Kessel? Or Joe Thornton? Somehow they won a Stanley Cup there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saint2e
So there's that. There's also this concept of "Home ice advantage". Currently, we appear to not have this advantage. This can be chalked up to the usual reasons:
1) Too many suits in the ACC
2) Haven't had much to cheer about lately
etc. etc.
Another factor is, and this is where Don Cherry's comments come in, is that there are so many players from this area/country that do NOT play for the Leafs, I feel we lose home ice advantage. Teams come in all the time and get tickets for their friends/relatives, and they raise their game, naturally, in front of their family and friends.
The Leafs really don't have that at the moment, and I wonder if this is another factor working against the Maple Leafs. I don't subscribe completely to Don's comments, but I have to begrudgingly admit that the man kinda has a point.
I'm hoping we can have a frank and civil discussion on this topic.
This didn't seem to be a problem before mid-January. There's nothing terribly different about the Leafs' home record from other bad teams' home records.
There's certainly something to the whole living the dream of being a Maple Leaf.
But at the same time we've seen players with the potential to join the Leafs, who are from Ontario, and chose not to. I'm sure someone could find a list.
You can find an elite superstar in the draft from Toronto that's great. (Insert Tyler Seguin joke here).
Not elite but Brendan Gaunce is someone I'd like on the Leafs. Good ol' Markham boy with size and skill and heart.
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No Boston area players on the Bruins when they won the Stanley Cup. Or Tampa Bay or Anaheim or Carolina or even Detroit.
True, but you also don't have a lot of Boston-born players coming into town wanting to play up for their family/friends who only see them a couple times a season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarBurns
Ever notice how Boston treated Phil Kessel? Or Joe Thornton? Somehow they won a Stanley Cup there.
I don't understand this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarBurns
This didn't seem to be a problem before mid-January. There's nothing terribly different about the Leafs' home record from other bad teams' home records.
Fair point, but I'm speaking generally, not just this season. I was listening to HNIC Radio on Sirius yesterday on the way home from work, and Glenn Healy was saying he HATED going into Chicago because of the noise level, and there are other examples of arenas/towns players did NOT look forward to going into due to various factors.
I just don't think Toronto has ANY of those factors.
2) Where the Players are from has no bearing. Sure it's easy for a local Player coming into town to have a little extra when playing here a couple times a year, not the same 41 times a year. It's no different then wondering why Teams can't play with the same intensity every night that they do in the Playoffs.
2) Where the Players are from has no bearing. Sure it's easy for a local Player coming into town to have a little extra when playing here a couple times a year, not the same 41 times a year. It's no different then wondering why Teams can't play with the same intensity every night that they do in the Playoffs.
You know what is sad, if a player like Komisarek started leaving his position going down ice and ramming players into the end boards, he would a hero to some. A lot of leaf fans will get loud when they see someone showing passion even if it's going to have a bad outcome in the end. Other leaf fans like the underdogs who play a good steady game but it's mostly polite applause rather than a get out your seats and yell response.
You know what is sad, if a player like Komisarek started leaving his position going down ice and ramming players into the end boards, he would a hero to some. A lot of leaf fans will get loud when they see someone showing passion even if it's going to have a bad outcome in the end. Other leaf fans like the underdogs who play a good steady game but it's mostly polite applause rather than a get out your seats and yell response.
Part of that is due to the amount of seats occupied by Subscribers. When you attend a lot of games you tend to sit and watch the game more than those who attend occassionally. The occassional attendee tends to worry more about beer, bathroom, souveniers and why the wave doesn't catch on.
A lot of players like playing in Florida/California for the nice weather and low taxes. You play in Toronto, half of your earnings will be taxed to pay for government benefits that you don't even use. What's the point?
Not completely true I believe! It depends on your citizenship! Canadian players have to pay Canadian tax no matter if they play in the U.S! I'm not sure how it works going the other way!
A lot of players like playing in Florida/California for the nice weather and low taxes. You play in Toronto, half of your earnings will be taxed to pay for government benefits that you don't even use. What's the point?
The difference might be a bit less than you think. Out of the 30 NHL teams, Toronto was around the middle of the league when it came to the effective tax rate. I THINK LA had the highest rate and you never see players saying they'll never want to play for the Lakers.
Not completely true I believe! It depends on your citizenship! Canadian players have to pay Canadian tax no matter if they play in the U.S! I'm not sure how it works going the other way!
No they don't. Canada and US (along with many other countries) have a tax treaty where they avoid double taxation.
The difference might be a bit less than you think. Out of the 30 NHL teams, Toronto was around the middle of the league when it came to the effective tax rate. I THINK LA had the highest rate and you never see players saying they'll never want to play for the Lakers.
Without getting too much into Don Cherry's comments recently about Ontario boys on the Maple Leafs, I think there may be something there.
I've seen comments to this effect in other threads, but I thought I'd start a thread specific to that topic (I haven't checked, this may be my first thread in this subforum).
Basically, Toronto is regarded as the "Mecca" of hockey. This is a double-edged sword:
1) Tons of exposure, you can be a superstar/celebrity in playing for the Leafs
2) The media can turn on you and you can go from Superstar Celebrity to Pariah
So there's that. There's also this concept of "Home ice advantage". Currently, we appear to not have this advantage. This can be chalked up to the usual reasons:
1) Too many suits in the ACC
2) Haven't had much to cheer about lately
etc. etc.
Another factor is, and this is where Don Cherry's comments come in, is that there are so many players from this area/country that do NOT play for the Leafs, I feel we lose home ice advantage. Teams come in all the time and get tickets for their friends/relatives, and they raise their game, naturally, in front of their family and friends.
The Leafs really don't have that at the moment, and I wonder if this is another factor working against the Maple Leafs. I don't subscribe completely to Don's comments, but I have to begrudgingly admit that the man kinda has a point.
I'm hoping we can have a frank and civil discussion on this topic.
Im going out on a limb with this generalization, but its not my theory...I was wondering if there is a parallel between the much-touted lack of playoff intensity that is reportedly common with Russians, Swedes, etc. and other European countries who apparently view competing for the cup (for free) as a necessary post season evil, and don't place the same importance on the cup as they do international championships. for this to hold weight, the notion that non- Ontario kids who didn't grow up with HNIC and Leaf games don't have it in them to show the same pride or commitment. Huuuge generalization, and Im not sure Im buying in, just tabling the issue here....
Another factor is, and this is where Don Cherry's comments come in, is that there are so many players from this area/country that do NOT play for the Leafs, I feel we lose home ice advantage. Teams come in all the time and get tickets for their friends/relatives, and they raise their game, naturally, in front of their family and friends.
The Leafs really don't have that at the moment, and I wonder if this is another factor working against the Maple Leafs. I don't subscribe completely to Don's comments, but I have to begrudgingly admit that the man kinda has a point.
So let's say the Leafs add a half dozen skilled Ontario born players.
It doesn't negate the other Ontario born players from getting tickets for their friends/relatives, and they raising their game in front of their family and friends when playing in Toronto.
It's not so much the lack of Ontario born players on the Leafs, it's more about it being a "special" game for those playing on other teams that are returning "home" for a night.
So let's say the Leafs add a half dozen skilled Ontario born players.
It doesn't negate the other Ontario born players from getting tickets for their friends/relatives, and they raising their game in front of their family and friends when playing in Toronto.
It's so much the lack of Ontario born players on the Leafs, it's more about it being a "special" game for those playing on other teams that are returning "home" for a night.
True, but that's only part of it. I mean certainly local boys aren't going to get as big an adrenaline boost EVERY night, like visiting players, but I still think that there can be a certain advantage/"boost" from being a hometown boy playing for your hometown team that gets you up for a game more than usual.
True, but that's only part of it. I mean certainly local boys aren't going to get as big an adrenaline boost EVERY night, like visiting players, but I still think that there can be a certain advantage/"boost" from being a hometown boy playing for your hometown team that gets you up for a game more than usual.
But as you say, not EVERY night. Whereas almost EVERY night, the visitors have a couple of guys returning home to play.
The problem is, it is a benefit for other teams playing us, but not a benefit for us. There are so many Ontario-born players in the league, and when they come here, they get amped up, invite their family and friends, and usually play better.
But no, it would not have the same effect if Toronto got those players, because they would be playing here 41 times a year. Things become less special the more you do them, and the players aren't going to spend their entire salary getting their entire family and friend cheering section to come to every game.
In fact, we probably do better having players that aren't from Ontario, because we get that benefit in other places when going on the road, though to a lesser extent because more players are from Ontario than basically anywhere else.
All this was was another way for Cherry to bash Burke and be racist and have people agree with him because of Toronto pride.
It puts Toronto at the top along with the Knicks and Lakers. At the bottom are teams like Miami that did get the biggest FA haul, but also teams like Memphis, Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, Orlando that are low and in warm climate but not even close to being top FA destinations in the NBA (even though Dallas just won the championship).
I think that playing in TO is like living in a glass bubble and to some players this is a negative, whether they are from the area or not. I do not buy the arguement that players should be able to accept this because they make big bucks.
Human nature is what it is no matter how much money you make and even top athletes can be shy and introverted and not like media attention.
I think Leaf's management consider this when going after players, but that kind of handicaps them a little and really is a negative to player recruitment. But what can you do??? Toronto fans and media are really passionate about thier team and I guess this just goes with the territory.
I think that playing in TO is like living in a glass bubble and to some players this is a negative, whether they are from the area or not. I do not buy the arguement that players should be able to accept this because they make big bucks.
Human nature is what it is no matter how much money you make and even top athletes can be shy and introverted and not like media attention.
I think Leaf's management consider this when going after players, but that kind of handicaps them a little and really is a negative to player recruitment. But what can you do??? Toronto fans and media are really passionate about thier team and I guess this just goes with the territory.
I tink Burke liked the fact that both Kessel and Phaneuf give horrible interviews. It sort of deflates the media looking for a big story or controversial sound bite. Negating the Media's impact on the club is a good thing IMO.
