I'm sure he was a big part of it, but the fact remains he was just a part. Without other players, he does not win a championship. That much is indisputable.
you mean goalies are winning SCs as part of teams? holy hell, who woulda thunk it?
Why don't we table this topic for about 2 weeks when the 2 teams likely meet in the first round of the playoffs!
As a Flyers fan, given all factors, I would choose Fleury over Bryzgalov. That said, the disparity between these two is considerably smaller than the difference between Fleury and Lundqvist imo. Winning a cup matters, but looking at the list of Stanley Cup winning goalies over the last 20 years, there aren't a plethora of hall of fame goaltenders winning those games.
A good goaltender that gets hot > than a great goaltender that doesn't when it comes to the playoffs.
you mean goalies are winning SCs as part of teams? holy hell, who woulda thunk it?
When you're comparing two individuals, something team related is pretty much irrelevant. It's like saying if Fleury played for Columbus and never won a cup he'd be less of a goalie.
I love people who only use the Stanley Cup as their only argument. How many cups does Iginla have? Thornton? Alfreddsson? I guess they suck too. And that's only including current players and not people like Dionne, Lindros, etc.
And by the way, Bryz technically already has a cup. And he got it before Fleury. He won the first playoff series for the Ducks in 5 games.
Are we serious here? The Winter Classic feels like yesterday. Judging by the rate at which Bryzgalov appears to be changing the realitities of fans everywhere, we'll be having the debate over who you'd rather have, Bryzgalov or Lundqvist by no later than June...and we'll probably get some hand-picked statistics and homer rants to prove it.
I love people who only use the Stanley Cup as their only argument. How many cups does Iginla have? Thornton? Alfreddsson? I guess they suck too. And that's only including current players and not people like Dionne, Lindros, etc.
And by the way, Bryz technically already has a cup. And he got it before Fleury. He won the first playoff series for the Ducks in 5 games.
Are we serious here? The Winter Classic feels like yesterday. Judging by the rate at which Bryzgalov appears to be changing the realitities of fans everywhere, we'll be having the debate over who you'd rather have, Bryzgalov or Lundqvist by no later than June...and we'll probably get some hand-picked statistics and homer rants to prove it.
Or better yet.. Bryz fan's could ignore all the superior statistics Lundqvist has over Bryz, and just cite the fact that Bryz has a cup ring!
Or better yet.. Bryz fan's could ignore all the superior statistics Lundqvist has over Bryz, and just cite the fact that Bryz has a cup ring!
Whoa, you just blew my mind. I didn't even think about that. Bryz FTW with the ring. Sorry Lundqvist. Your freakish perfection is no match for the ring!
I am willing to give Bryzgalov a break this year. Something I would not even think doing 2 month ago.
1st year on a new team with drastic changes and a lot of injuries as well as rookies. I'll wait and see. Bryzgalov certainly showed Flyers fans that he can play in goal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flaproosta08
but wasn't good enough to close out the playoffs.
I doubt MAF would do any better in 1st round against Wings playing on PHO team.
That took a long time to figure out in baseball, and I don't know if it'll ever truly be figured out in hockey. That said SV % is still the best normal stat for goalies. Over a career worth of games shot quality should tend to even out for every goalie except in extreme cases.
If you think wins and GAA are based on the team in front as well as the goalie, couldnt you also argue that SV% based on the team just as much as W and GAA?
Fleury and Bryz are perfect examples...Fleury plays on a team that is heavily focused on offense and with their system they naturally give up more scoring chances while Bryz in Phoenix is a defense first system so he sees less quality chances.
Id say this wouldnt be a big deal if they played for multiple teams but Fleurys whole career is with the Pens and Bryz spent 257 games with Phoenx. He did play 68 games with the ducks where his SV% is noticably lower when compared to Phoenix.
If you think wins and GAA are based on the team in front as well as the goalie, couldnt you also argue that SV% based on the team just as much as W and GAA?
Fleury and Bryz are perfect examples...Fleury plays on a team that is heavily focused on offense and with their system they naturally give up more scoring chances while Bryz in Phoenix is a defense first system so he sees less quality chances.
Id say this wouldnt be a big deal if they played for multiple teams but Fleurys whole career is with the Pens and Bryz spent 257 games with Phoenx. He did play 68 games with the ducks where his SV% is noticably lower when compared to Phoenix.
Then what's your argument for Bryzgalov's amazing stats since New Year's? After all, he's on an offensively minded Flyers.
I doubt MAF would do any better in 1st round against Wings playing on PHO team.
Dumb argument by you.
No need to call his argument dumb, especially since you're wrong in context. He said Bryzgalov wasn't good enough to finish out the cup run by the Ducks after playing the first round; it had nothing at all to do with Phoenix.
Whoa, you just blew my mind. I didn't even think about that. Bryz FTW with the ring. Sorry Lundqvist. Your freakish perfection is no match for the ring!
It's hard to understand just how much you missed his point.
Then what's your argument for Bryzgalov's amazing stats since New Year's? After all, he's on an offensively minded Flyers.
You do realize youre comparing a 3 month period (31 games) that benefits your argument compared to the 257 Phoenix and 68 Ducks games i mentioned right?
My argument could be hes on a hot streak, or I could go your route and pick a small sample size that benefits my side of the argument...like the time period where your fan base wanted him chased out of Philly.
Let's be honest there, Fleury is not very consistent either. He's more prone for letting softies in and Bryz is definitely better when he catches his game compared to Fleury' best games.
Remember, when Pens circa 05-07 Fleury was pretty bad and Bryz looked solid even when playing for the Coyotes.
Fleury was like 20 then and the Penguins team was TERRIBLE. The Coyotes were at least a defensive-minded team...
I'll take mr Fleury. Check out his win/loss record since January. The guy just wins. Also for a goalie his age,or near it? he's got the 2nd most wins. 27 years old, 225 wins.....Lundqvist is 2 years older, and just a tad more wins.
I am willing to give Bryzgalov a break this year. Something I would not even think doing 2 month ago.
1st year on a new team with drastic changes and a lot of injuries as well as rookies. I'll wait and see. Bryzgalov certainly showed Flyers fans that he can play in goal.
I doubt MAF would do any better in 1st round against Wings playing on PHO team.
