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Columbus wants Gardiner, Kadri, and 2012 1st round pick in exchange for Rick Nash

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03-31-2012, 09:04 AM
  #326
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Why is this thread still being discussed? It was pure speculation on Berger's part.

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03-31-2012, 09:18 AM
  #327
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Nash is a great player but Gardiner will become something special and will be with us I hope for a very long time and trading him would certainly put back the rebuild for years.

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03-31-2012, 09:21 AM
  #328
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Here is hoping that Jake Gardiner is the next Scott Niedermayer.

Nash is a decent player, but honestly at this point he would not help the Leafs become playoff contenders. This team is a long ways from being a contender and this would be doing the Kessel trade all over again.

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03-31-2012, 09:29 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
I have never seen any fans of any other team undervalue a 24 year old PPG scorer like I've seen fans of this team display. It's ridiculous. Phil Kessel is a 24 year old, nearly 40 goal scorer, putting up points at a point per game pace, all while being centred by Tyler Bozak. Give your heads a shake, people.
I am not undervaluing Kessel at all! We are talking 1st overall pick here and as you mentioned we have Bozak as our top line center for 2+ seasons now.

Kessel is worth a TON right now thanks to his great individual season. I have personally watched 90%+ of all games this year and assuming you have seen the majority as well, you must have noticed how ineffective Kessel can look against a strong defensive club.

Now, I am not saying that Kessel is BAD because of that, i am saying that if we want to beat the likes of Boston and Philly and Detroit on a consistent basis (especially come playoffs), we need to have several big and talented players surrounding Kessel so he is not being smothered by the #1 D on the opposite team!

I am not seeing opportunities to get a #1 C and another #1 winger for Kessel...if you are please point them out. We are also clearly several years away from being competitive in playoffs...tons of young talent on marlies but not ready for playoff contention on the leafs....clearly.

Taking Yakupov 1st overall and then drafting Galchenyuk at ~4th overall, will bring two current teammates to the same NHL team so that they can continue to develop. Most scouts point out that if not for Galchenyuk's knee injury, he would be fighting for that 1st overall pick himself.

Is this risky? Ofcourse it is! but we are bottom of the barrel right now and this is the time to take those risks. Also Galchenyuk is an American born Russian, most likely to fit in with Burkie and Yakupov is mature enough to step right into NHL next year.

People have to realize that to get all-star quality, you have to give-up something similar. It is very rare that you are going to rip some other GM off and even if you do, you can kiss that relationship for future trading goodbye!

Kessel (baring injury) should have a spectacular career in the NHL, but he alone will not bring us to the Stanley Cup finals because a guy of his size and skillset needs another all-star physical center and winger to play with. Either we get Kessel that supporting cast in the next 12 months or we will continue to suffer for years to come and probably have to trade him for "half of what we can get now" before he is UFA.

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03-31-2012, 09:30 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
I have never seen any fans of any other team undervalue a 24 year old PPG scorer like I've seen fans of this team display. It's ridiculous. Phil Kessel is a 24 year old, nearly 40 goal scorer, putting up points at a point per game pace, all while being centred by Tyler Bozak. Give your heads a shake, people.
I agree with this. Kessel is so underrated it's ridiculous.

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03-31-2012, 09:45 AM
  #331
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Kessel for Yakupov

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03-31-2012, 09:55 AM
  #332
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I wonder what a Kessel for Nash deal would look like? IMO Kessel is worth more, so we would likely get a pick or prospect coming our way as well.

Would anyone do this?

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03-31-2012, 10:08 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Sebastian Bach View Post
I wonder what a Kessel for Nash deal would look like? IMO Kessel is worth more, so we would likely get a pick or prospect coming our way as well.

Would anyone do this?
Nash + 2nd for Kessel, I would do.

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03-31-2012, 10:15 AM
  #334
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Columbus probably wouldn't do this, but I would certainly swap firsts and Nash for Kessel. Done and done.

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03-31-2012, 10:22 AM
  #335
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Trading Kessel seems so unlikely while Burke is here. It would be like admitting he made a mistake.

Also, if we swap picks with Columbus, and assume they have the #1 pick, then we end up with Nail, and still need a #1 centre.

If we were to trade Kessel, I think a more logical trading partner is LA. They have a lot of centres, and we need one. They have an extra goalie, and we need a #1. Kopitar and Bernier for Kessel and whatever else it would take, probably involves Schenn and some other pieces.

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03-31-2012, 10:23 AM
  #336
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Contract or not, Nash has the higher value.

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03-31-2012, 11:11 AM
  #337
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Contract or not, Nash has the higher value.
How do you figure? By making more while producing less?

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03-31-2012, 11:37 AM
  #338
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How do you figure? By making more while producing less?
And being older?

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03-31-2012, 11:48 AM
  #339
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Right now wouldn't even give the 1st for him

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Old
03-31-2012, 11:49 AM
  #340
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I would consider it if they removed Gardiner. I think a lottery pick and Kadri would be enough.

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03-31-2012, 11:58 AM
  #341
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Here's what i think about the Kessel for Nash trade stupidity:

Kessel: 24 yrs old. 78GP 36G 41A 77P +/-: -12
Nash: 27 yrs old. 78GP 27G 27A 54P +/-: -21

How does Kessel + for Nash make sense to you?

Nash never eclipsed past 79 points in his career. He has been a consistent 30+ goal scorer and reliable 60-70 point getter, but not much more. Kessel is at 77 points, and if he can somehow get a couple of goals and points he can reach 40 (not likely) and 80 points, going past Nash's highest point total, but doing so at the age of 24!!!

For those of you judging Kessel's defensive play, sure hes been a minus player. But if you are using +/- to gauge his defensive play, then how would you explain Kessel's 36-goal season with Boston where he was a +23? Kessel (and the whole Leaf team's) +/- was positive for more than half of the season, until our goalies decided not to show up. Long story short, +/- of a player is dependent on the goalie: if your goalie sucks, your plus minus sucks, and suddenly your the worst defensive player according to Leaf fans. Retarded.

The same can be said about Nash, he had to deal with a guy like Mason (Yikes). But again, he is big and strong and would certainly make Leafs a better team if he is acquired through other means, BUT NOT FOR KESSEL. PEOPLE!...Dealing Kessel away DOES NOT MAKE US A BETTER TEAM, IT MAKES US WORSE. If he's gone then where do the rest of the 30+ goals come from? Macarthur? Give me a break. Wake up and smell the coffee LeafsNation and stop acting retarded.

As for Kessel for Columbus 1st round pick: That's just down right idiotic. I wonder who Leafs fans would blame if this went through and Yakupov turns out to be another Nikita Filatov, or some other KHL defect. Give your heads a shake people.

Conclusion: 1) Kessel is one of the only supremely talented players on our team and Leafs fan want to get rid of him. Don't try to make yourself worse by trading away your only legit asset, add players around him that make him better or vice versa. 2) Stop making idiotic comments, be happy with what you have and stop playing GM mode on NHL 12.

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Old
03-31-2012, 12:58 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
How do you figure? By making more while producing less?
Besides being a better hockey player is almost every area conceivable, the few pros on Kessels side are not worth talking about.

Pro 1) For the next two years the difference in salary is $2.4m. Kessel's next deal will be in the range of 6.3-6.7mil per.

Pro 2) Three year age difference. The difference in talent more then makes up for it. Three years is nothing.
  • People can't seem to grasp the fact that the run and gun system pads your stats. Next season Kessel will be forced into playing two way hockey (which involves a lot more then just skating back). End result being a lot less chances to reach the same output.
  • Does Nash have anyone close to Lupuls talent on his line? No. The Carter/Nash combo was a mismatch from the onset.
  • Before this season Kessel never topped the 65 point total, yet no one holds it against him.

A move involving Kessel & Nash would only be the first step in a long list of chances that are necessary before next season: Goaltending, Defence, Toughness and finding Grabovski consistent line mates.

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03-31-2012, 01:01 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by JackJ View Post
Besides being a better hockey player is almost every area conceivable, the few pros on Kessels side are not worth talking about.

Pro 1) For the next two years the difference in salary is $2.4m. Kessel's next deal will be in the range of 6.3-6.7mil per.

Pro 2) Three year age difference. The difference in talent more then makes up for it. Three years is nothing.

People can't seem to grasp the fact that the run and gun system pads your stats. Next season Kessel will be forced into playing two way hockey (which involves a lot more then just skating back). End result being a lot less chances to reach the same output.

Does Nash have anyone close to Lupuls talent on his line? No. The Carter/Nash combo was a mismatch from the onset.

Before this season Kessel never topped the 65 point total, yet no one holds it against him.
a legitimate top center might compensate for the change. Or Carlyle letting his top guys getting ice time like he did with Anaheim's group can compensate any stat changes.

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03-31-2012, 01:02 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by JackJ View Post
Besides being a better hockey player is almost every area conceivable, the few pros on Kessels side are not worth talking about.

Pro 1) For the next two years the difference in salary is $2.4m. Kessel's next deal will be in the range of 6.3-6.7mil per.

Pro 2) Three year age difference. The difference in talent more then makes up for it. Three years is nothing.

People can't seem to grasp the fact that the run and gun system pads your stats. Next season Kessel will be forced into playing two way hockey (which involves a lot more then just skating back). End result being a lot less chances to reach the same output.

Does Nash have anyone close to Lupuls talent on his line? No. The Carter/Nash combo was a mismatch from the onset.

Before this season Kessel never topped the 65 point total, yet no one holds it against him.
THat's media-driven b.s. Have you seen Nash this year? He looks lazy and one-dimensional. Phil Kessel is easily the better hockey player right now.

Kessel had never hit more than 65 points prior to this year and no one held it against him because he was only 23 years old and younger during those years.

And bringing up Lupul is dumb. Phil had 32 goals, 64 points with AHL talent last year. And this year he still has Bozak centering him.

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03-31-2012, 01:02 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by JackJ View Post
Besides being a better hockey player is almost every area conceivable, the few pros on Kessels side are not worth talking about.

Pro 1) For the next two years the difference in salary is $2.4m. Kessel's next deal will be in the range of 6.3-6.7mil per.

Pro 2) Three year age difference. The difference in talent more then makes up for it. Three years is nothing.

People can't seem to grasp the fact that the run and gun system pads your stats. Next season Kessel will be forced into playing two way hockey (which involves a lot more then just skating back). End result being a lot less chances to reach the same output.

Does Nash have anyone close to Lupuls talent on his line? No. The Carter/Nash combo was a mismatch from the onset.

Before this season Kessel never topped the 65 point total, yet no one holds it against him
.
You make it sound like Huselius, RJ umberger, vermette, Voracek etc were scrubs. It wasn't like last year with kessel playing with Bozak, Crabb, Stajan etc.

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03-31-2012, 01:05 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
THat's media-driven b.s. Have you seen Nash this year? He looks lazy and one-dimensional. Phil Kessel is easily the better hockey player right now.

Kessel had never hit more than 65 points prior to this year and no one held it against him because he was only 23 years old and younger during those years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezle View Post
You make it sound like Huselius, RJ umberger, vermette, Voracek etc were scrubs. It wasn't like last year with kessel playing with Bozak, Crabb, Stajan etc.
Burke doesn't have the stones to pull this deal off and to match the rumored Rangers offer so we'll see how he performs playing on an actual team.

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03-31-2012, 01:06 PM
  #347
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Burke doesn't have the stones to pull this deal off and to match the rumored Rangers offer so we'll see how he performs playing on an actual team.
No, he doesn't have the brain damage to give up a top 3-5 pick, Kadri and Gardiner for an overrated 60 point forward who has one of the top 5 cap hits in the NHL.

And I love how Nash fans always guarantee he'll do better on a better team. The guy has been in the league a decade. If he was the "Franchise Player" the media claims he is, he should have done more regardless of talent around him.

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03-31-2012, 01:11 PM
  #348
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Do you evaluate players based on one year?

Columbus can ask for whatever they want.

I'm not sure what Leafs would be off limits in a Nash deal.

I wouldn't move a lottery pick++ for him, but other than that I don't see any untouchables. He'd be the best player on the team, all due respect to Kessel's shot.

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He was the Leafs' leading scorer in the 196364, 196667 and 196970 seasons, and the team's top goal scorer in 197071 and 197273. Keon was considered one of the fastest skaters in the NHL, and one of the best defensive forwards of his era.[3] He would usually play against the opposing team's top centre, and developed a reputation for neutralizing some of the league's top scorers. In 197071, he scored eight shorthanded goals, setting an NHL record.
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03-31-2012, 01:15 PM
  #349
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Do you evaluate players based on one year?

Columbus can ask for whatever they want.

I'm not sure what Leafs would be off limits in a Nash deal.

I wouldn't move a lottery pick++ for him, but other than that I don't see any untouchables. He'd be the best player on the team, all due respect to Kessel's shot.
Pretty sad when a 55 point scorer would be the best player on our team.

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03-31-2012, 01:18 PM
  #350
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When people say Nash is this amazing overall talent who does it all, do they watch him play?

He is so invisible so many nights and is very lazy and disinterested on the ice.

Phil Kessel is easily better.

If Nash played in Toronto making 7.8 million per with that production, the media and fans of other teams would be ripping him apart.

He's escaping all criticism hiding in Columbus.

Just like if Phil Kessel hid in Columbus he'd be getting no criticism compared to the daily crap he gets on the Leafs.

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