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Why are Professional Sports Leagues Capped at around 30 teams?
Other than ... lack of stadiums (which I can't imagine would be a barrier, Edmonton has an NFL capable stadium already), there is nothing really preventing the NFL from having a major presence in Canada.
Lack of stadiums is a HUGE barrier to entry. Commonwealth Stadium would be the smallest venue in the league if it hosted the NFL. Olympic Stadium in Montreal is the biggest in Canada and it would be one of the smaller stadiums in the NFL too (between Raymond James Stadium in Tampa and the Edward Jones Dome in St. Louis).
Even if you presumed the seating capacities were adequate these facilities are almost 40 years old. They have none of the amenities that would be expected of an NFL facility.
Now, you could just say "well, the cities could build new (bigger) stadiums to accommodate the NFL team" but where's the money going to come from? How much did Cowboys Stadium cost? $1.3 billion? NHL teams, which are in pretty good financial shape in Canada, are having trouble coming up with the funds for $400 million arenas. Do you believe there's an appetite for billion dollar football stadiums?
And would you fill them? Is there strong enough demand for NFL football? By comparison there sure as hell isn't enough demand for baseball, even AAA ball.
But look at the MLB, you have to win your division/wild card race in order just to make to playoffs. And it was only up until this year that only 8 teams of 30 made the post season, yet that has never hurt baseballs popularity.
I don't think lessening the odds of winning will hurt the sports popularity at all.
I wasn't arguing it as a huge factor, but it may certainly be something in the minds of many current franchises; the larger the League gets, the tougher it is to win it all. But yes, most fans still stick around.
Lack of stadiums is a HUGE barrier to entry. Commonwealth Stadium would be the smallest venue in the league if it hosted the NFL. Olympic Stadium in Montreal is the biggest in Canada and it would be one of the smaller stadiums in the NFL too (between Raymond James Stadium in Tampa and the Edward Jones Dome in St. Louis).
Even if you presumed the seating capacities were adequate these facilities are almost 40 years old. They have none of the amenities that would be expected of an NFL facility.
Now, you could just say "well, the cities could build new (bigger) stadiums to accommodate the NFL team" but where's the money going to come from? How much did Cowboys Stadium cost? $1.3 billion? NHL teams, which are in pretty good financial shape in Canada, are having trouble coming up with the funds for $400 million arenas. Do you believe there's an appetite for billion dollar football stadiums?
And would you fill them? Is there strong enough demand for NFL football? By comparison there sure as hell isn't enough demand for baseball, even AAA ball.
Exactly I don't see how even here in Montreal with a metro pop of 3.7 million which would make it right in the middle of the pack in the NFL ( in terms of market size ) how a stadium of 70 000 would be filled every week. Let alone how such a stadium would be built, I certainly don't see how Calgary would be able or Vancouver for that matter, maybe T.O
Football stadiums don't have to be 70,000 seats nor do they have to cost a billion dollars. A stadium like Commonwealth would actually be perfect for most Canadian markets. How would they fund it? Well, they certainly justified Commonwealth and Olympic... hey don't those two names have something in common?
Again, I'm not advocating for NFL expansion into Canada right now. I'm just saying there's nothing preventing it from happening if they wanted it.
By 2050 or 2060 I think we'll see around 40 teams in every major sports league (NHL 38, 8 of Quebec City, Seattle, Houston, Southern Ontario 2, Southern Ontario 3, Kansas City, Saskatoon, Atlanta, Portland, Los Vegas, Vancouver 2), (MLB 40, 10 of Buffalo, Montreal, Vancouver, North Carolina, San Antonio, Northern California 3, Louisville, Nashville, New York 3, Mexico City, New England 2, Los Vegas), (NFL 40, 10 of, Toronto, Los Angeles 1, Los Angeles 2, San Antonio, Mexico City, Los Vegas, Dal-FW 2, New York 3, Orlando, Austin, Honolulu, Sacramento, Oklaholma City, Salt Lake City), (NBA 38, 8 of Vancouver, Seattle, New York 3, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Buffalo, Louisville, Los Vegas, Columbus, Montreal)
Do you think that they realistically could play in the NFL? It's a pretty far trip - just to get to the west coast, at least 4-5 hours. Playing against the east coast teams would be easily 8-9 hours of travel. I guess if they're only playing one day per week it's doable, but it just seems like the travel costs would be prohibitive, and the time factor as well.
Seating doesn't mean much in the NFL. Teams make so much of their money off the TV revenue, that ticket revenue means very little. And NFL ticket revenue is split 60% to the home team and 40 to the road team.
All that said, outside of Toronto, many US cities will get teams before places like Calgary are ever considered.
Do you think that they realistically could play in the NFL? It's a pretty far trip - just to get to the west coast, at least 4-5 hours. Playing against the east coast teams would be easily 8-9 hours of travel. I guess if they're only playing one day per week it's doable, but it just seems like the travel costs would be prohibitive, and the time factor as well.
If they can't have a team in the NFL it's not because of travel time especially because only one game a week is played and the time zones would just jump from 1 hour to 2 max
We're also making the assumption that the NFL will legally be allowed in Canada. All signs are pointing that it will not.
With the NFL in Toronto comes the death of the CFL in Ontario. Is the federal government going to let a foreign entity willfully kill a historical Canadian entity? I think not.
We're also making the assumption that the NFL will legally be allowed in Canada. All signs are pointing that it will not.
With the NFL in Toronto comes the death of the CFL in Ontario. Is the federal government going to let a foreign entity willfully kill a historical Canadian entity? I think not.
It's been dead since 1990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie
I don't think it will ever happen guys, I was just suggesting that it could.
And I do believe the Canadian federal government, especially a Tory government, would prevent a move into Toronto.
Haraper is a big free trade guy. Blocking a Toronto team would be a violation of NAFTA.
In a perfect world, the NHL would be the one league that could hold 40 teams. The other leagues are mostly limited to the US. I could MLB expanding to the carribean and mexico. NFL, unless they lower their standards and maybe buy the CFL, I see it as being stuck. NBA, maybe South America.
I think we need to ask ourselves. WHY should we promote expansion?
Expanding over national borders is a purely North American concept for sports. Well, and the KHL. For the past hundred years 95% of leagues stay within one country. I far prefer this model to the one we have now where the US acts as Lord Protector over Canadian sports.
I think we need to ask ourselves. WHY should we promote expansion?
Expanding over national borders is a purely North American concept for sports. Well, and the KHL. For the past hundred years 95% of leagues stay within one country. I far prefer this model to the one we have now where the US acts as Lord Protector over Canadian sports.
I don't think anyone is saying we SHOULD promote. I think it's just a discussion of is it actually possible.
I think we need to ask ourselves. WHY should we promote expansion?
Expanding over national borders is a purely North American concept for sports. Well, and the KHL. For the past hundred years 95% of leagues stay within one country. I far prefer this model to the one we have now where the US acts as Lord Protector over Canadian sports.
Money. Plus Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver are not as keen to play small towns like Regina outside hockey.
And where your passion like this for our Olympics team. The center of sports is there and we have not exactly done well the past 4 times have we
If they can't have a team in the NFL it's not because of travel time especially because only one game a week is played and the time zones would just jump from 1 hour to 2 max
Hawaii is 3 hours behind California. So that could be. 3-7 hour difference.
I know they have a decent sized stadium, I always figured the time/travel would be prohibitive to play regularly against teams on the mainland.
Do you think that they realistically could play in the NFL? It's a pretty far trip - just to get to the west coast, at least 4-5 hours. Playing against the east coast teams would be easily 8-9 hours of travel. I guess if they're only playing one day per week it's doable, but it just seems like the travel costs would be prohibitive, and the time factor as well.
Not anytime soon but as aircraft become more advanced it wouldn't take as long, by 2050 that trip might not be anyworse than lets say Los Angeles to Detroit, maybe better.
And yeah it definitely works for the NFL that theres only 1 game a week, travel wouldn't be that bad.
Haraper is a big free trade guy. Blocking a Toronto team would be a violation of NAFTA.
Principals vs votes... his base consists primarily of old people and the west. Plus it's an easy political game to play with the opposition... what are they going to do? Argue against the CFL?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy
I think we need to ask ourselves. WHY should we promote expansion?
Expanding over national borders is a purely North American concept for sports. Well, and the KHL. For the past hundred years 95% of leagues stay within one country. I far prefer this model to the one we have now where the US acts as Lord Protector over Canadian sports.
It happens in similar situations in various sports... FIFA has a prohibition against it except in the case of smaller countries, but some of the top rugby (both types), cricket, basketball, etc. leagues are multi nation. And if FIFA lacked that rule, you can be sure that there would be a lot of league mergers.
New Zealand and Australia have the same dynamic as the US and Canada generally, and sure enough they share sports leagues, too.
Hawaii is 3 hours behind California. So that could be. 3-7 hour difference.
I know they have a decent sized stadium, I always figured the time/travel would be prohibitive to play regularly against teams on the mainland.
Yes Hawaii could be complicated but that doesn't apply to Alberta. Travel time is not really an issue in pro sports especially for sports playing only a game a week but time zones are. If games would be held in let's say Argentina in South America it would be possible even on a weekly basis because it's in the same time zone as north America, unlike Hawaii.
Principals vs votes... his base consists primarily of old people and the west. Plus it's an easy political game to play with the opposition... what are they going to do? Argue against the CFL?
It happens in similar situations in various sports... FIFA has a prohibition against it except in the case of smaller countries, but some of the top rugby (both types), cricket, basketball, etc. leagues are multi nation. And if FIFA lacked that rule, you can be sure that there would be a lot of league mergers.
New Zealand and Australia have the same dynamic as the US and Canada generally, and sure enough they share sports leagues, too.
If that was true he wouldn't have won a majority.
And I don't think he would bother all too much about keeping the NFL out of Canada. CFL doesn't have much leverage anymore and despite it's history it's not something they would fight tooth and nail to keep. A Toronto team would likely "transfer" to the NFL (Not the actual players and team itself, but the history and colours ect) and the actual Argo team to Ottawa, which wouldn't be that big a deal.
he has a majority because turnouts in Canadian elections are hilariously low and slanted heavily toward older people... only about 25% of eligible voters under 25 even bother to vote.
The CFL doesn't have to matter... it's an issue, like the monarchy, where they can score cheap points with their base and make the NDP/Liberals look bad.
