To me it's either O'Brien or Wilson and I think I'd rather have Wilson, still got more room to grow, doesn't go full retard as often, will be cheaper to hold onto for longer and wouldn't have as big of a problem sitting in the box if Gaunce and Barrie win spots and we sign a top pairing guy to go with
New Guy-EJ
Hejda-Barrie
Gaunce-O'Byrne
Wilson
I don't think we should be so quick to discard Ryan Wilson.
He will be an RFA on a low salary, would likely accept his qualifying offer, and is an interesting player. There's really a question around what his limitations and ceiling ultimately are. He can skate well, he hits like a truck, and has the potential to be a decent two way defenseman. Wilson is right in that middle, grey zone... not an offensive defenseman, not a defensive defenseman. Can chip in with some points, but also be an asset defensively.
I'm curious to see what level he can reach with more coaching and development. I would not give up on him yet.
Wilson is a pretty unique player on our team, I think we should definitely keep him.
I don't think we should be so quick to discard Ryan Wilson.
He will be an RFA on a low salary, would likely accept his qualifying offer, and is an interesting player. There's really a question around what his limitations and ceiling ultimately are. He can skate well, he hits like a truck, and has the potential to be a decent two way defenseman. Wilson is right in that middle, grey zone... not an offensive defenseman, not a defensive defenseman. Can chip in with some points, but also be an asset defensively.
I'm curious to see what level he can reach with more coaching and development. I would not give up on him yet.
I agree he is an interesting player, and his hits can be momentum shifters. The biggest reason for me is that I'm not sure how much more potential he has and I feel Gaunce brings a similar game. If we aren't going to give Gaunce a chance soon, I'd like to see him traded for a young forward with similar potential, like an Aulie-Ashton deal
Wilson is still learning to play at the NHL level.
I consider the most important metric for defensemen in grading how far along they are in their development how many years they have been playing at the pro level.
Wilson hasn't even played 250 games yet as a pro,a lot of guys are at 250 as a rookie our a second year nhler.
I think he's one of the most overrated defensemen in the league. I want absolutely no part of that $6.68m cap hit for his 25 points per season. Aside from his skating, every part of his game is extremely average.
He's only overrated by Calgary's previous management because they gave him a crazy $6.68 M cap hit.
If they feel like going full rebuild and buying him out in the summer, I'd take him around $4 M and think he'd be a very good partner for EJ.
That'd give the Avs a puck moving pairing that can play good D. A shutdown pairing. And a good 3rd pairing.
Bouwmeester - EJ
Hejda - O'Byrne
Hunwick - O'Brien
Wilson
It's no coincidence that JBo is at the bottom of +/-. He's simply not a very good defender. All he has is skating and I guess decent endurance since he can play 25 minutes a game.
And he disappears down the stretch. This is his stats with Cgy.
It's no coincidence that JBo is at the bottom of +/-. He's simply not a very good defender. All he has is skating and I guess decent endurance since he can play 25 minutes a game.
And he disappears down the stretch. This is his stats with Cgy.
Oct-Dec:
GP: 107
G: 6
A: 37
P: 43
+/-: +16
Jan-Apr:
GP: 121
G: 5
A: 30
P: 35
+/-: -37
I think a lot of that can be attributed to being played as a top defenseman on bad teams his entire career.
He's not the only one who has vanished down the stretch for Calgary the last two-three seasons now, but he is one of them who has.
And I think that's because he's not really a guy that can do it all himself. He's a good complimentary partner to a legitimate top pairing guy. That's his ideal role IMO, and one he could fill with EJ. They both need capable all around guys to take the pressure off each other, and keep them from doing too much.
He's not the only one who has vanished down the stretch for Calgary the last two-three seasons now, but he is one of them who has.
He did that his final season in Florida as well when the Panthers were poised to make the postseason only to fall short by tiebreaker. If he had even decided to show up for even ONE of those games down the stretch, Florida's postseason drought would've ended long ago. He is the anti-clutch.
It's not that he plays a game as soft as wet toilet paper, it's that he plays with the intensity of a stoned librarian. There are people in comas with more exuberance than J-Bo.
They didn't make a mistake, they're in a cup run, and you don't trade your best defenseman when you're pushing for the cup even if it means losing him in the off season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015
They are gambling (the right decision) that by going on a deep playoff run, he'll re-sign in Nashville.
I think he just wants to experience free agency and learn who is out there that will both pay him and fits his future plans. Nashville has a really good chance at re-signing him since they brought in AK, Gaustad and Radulov.
Though I have to wonder long term how they will afford this team if they give Rinne, Weber and Suter around 21 mil combined, with the crop of expensive but unspectacular forwards. For being a budget team in the past, it really could come down to their owner opening up the piggy bank.
Let's get real here. The Preds are a very good team that have great goaltending and excellent defense and that's THE REASON they are in the picture every year but that's it. No one is mistaking these guys for perennial Stanley Cup contenders because they are missing some key offensive pieces and have been for quite some time. AK (laugh), Gaustad and Radulov aren't enough to make up what this team lacks up front.
So when they are fighting tooth and nail in this year's playoffs, they just won't have enough balance to match up with Vancouver or Chicago. Hey, maybe they get through the first round and everything opens up nicely for them but that's really wishful thinking. Adding complimentary guys like AK and Gaustad is nice but they needed to add a true #1 impact center to really contend and theys till haven't done that. Fisher and Legwand are ok 2nd/3rd line guys on good teams.
The more likely scenario is that they are going to take a very good team to 7 games and be down by one goal late in the 3rd and then Trotz is gonna roll out Erat and the Kostitsyn losers and they'll lose...again.
I actually hope that's NOT the case because they are actually one of the few teams in the West I can actually stand.
It's because I really believe everything that I posted above that I believe that it was a mistake to hold on to Suter. If he walks away for nothing, they'll be in far worse shape than what they could have gotten for him. I don't blame Poile for believing in his team but losing Suter for nothing will set this team back even though they have good prospects coming up.
Let's get real here. The Preds are a very good team that have great goaltending and excellent defense and that's THE REASON they are in the picture every year but that's it. No one is mistaking these guys for perennial Stanley Cup contenders because they are missing some key offensive pieces and have been for quite some time. AK (laugh), Gaustad and Radulov aren't enough to make up what this team lacks up front.
So when they are fighting tooth and nail in this year's playoffs, they just won't have enough balance to match up with Vancouver or Chicago. Hey, maybe they get through the first round and everything opens up nicely for them but that's really wishful thinking. Adding complimentary guys like AK and Gaustad is nice but they needed to add a true #1 impact center to really contend and theys till haven't done that. Fisher and Legwand are ok 2nd/3rd line guys on good teams.
The more likely scenario is that they are going to take a very good team to 7 games and be down by one goal late in the 3rd and then Trotz is gonna roll out Erat and the Kostitsyn losers and they'll lose...again.
I actually hope that's NOT the case because they are actually one of the few teams in the West I can actually stand.
It's because I really believe everything that I posted above that I believe that it was a mistake to hold on to Suter. If he walks away for nothing, they'll be in far worse shape than what they could have gotten for him. I don't blame Poile for believing in his team but losing Suter for nothing will set this team back even though they have good prospects coming up.
Nashville is the exception to the rule that says you need a stacked offense or a #1 center/deep middle to be a contender.
If you're deep enough offensively, which they have a pretty good combination of top 6 and 9'ers throughout their lineup to be considered... then the all-star defense and goaltending they can get in games is easily a game changer.
Teams like Vancouver and Chicago actually favor poorly to Nashville in the playoffs, in my opinion. It will take a similarly strong defensive team with better offense to beat Nashville, such as Boston from last year or Philly the year before.
Nashville is the exception to the rule that says you need a stacked offense or a #1 center/deep middle to be a contender.
Are they? Unless they go on a surprise run to the Finals I completely disagree with this. They're more than good enough to make the postseason with ease, but win it all? I'm not at all convinced. Post-deadline they've been anything but a true "contender."
Sucks that Suter's an FA this season. I'd love to see Nashville make a deep run cause I like that team, but I want them to flame out early to encourage Suter to explore his options in FA and come play with EJ.
I'd rate O'Brien over Hunwick and Wilson (especially since he returned from the head injury), but he's still more of a 4-6 guy rather than the top pairing guy Sacco has asked him to be for part of the season.
Has anyone here watched Jason Garrison play more than a few games?
Yeah he is not very good and some poor team is going to drastically overpay for a bottom pairing guy who just happened to get a few more bounces go his way that led to more goals. He is having one of those years where everything goes right. You don't just go from being a low scoring dman to scoring 16g this year without some good fortune. His defense is average at best, no better than 3rd pairing guy. Hope the avs don't fall in that trap, don't want anything to do with that guy.
Has anyone here watched Jason Garrison play more than a few games?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet1926
Yeah he is not very good and some poor team is going to drastically overpay for a bottom pairing guy who just happened to get a few more bounces go his way that led to more goals. He is having one of those years where everything goes right. You don't just go from being a low scoring dman to scoring 16g this year without some good fortune. His defense is average at best, no better than 3rd pairing guy. Hope the avs don't fall in that trap, don't want anything to do with that guy.
Have to firmly disagree with chet here.
Yeah, he's drastically improved his offense this year, but it's not because of simple bounces. He has a rocket of a shot and comes from a good offensive background.
If you go back to his BCHL days, he was nearly a PPG blueliner. He also had 35 points in his first full rookie AHL season in 08-09. Jumping from 18 points last year to 31 points this year isn't exactly a massive increase either. It's a common progression for a guy like him, especially when he finally gets himself onto a PP...which he finally did this year.
Defensively, yeah, he's a work in progress. But he's a big body who's fairly physical. He'll be fine in that area of his game. I would feel comfortable with him as a top 4 guy. He's not just a depth defender.
Do I think he's worth north of 4.5 million dollars? No. Will he get that? Most likely.
4.5m? Someone should get fired if that type of money is handed out.
James Wisniewski's getting $7 million and Christian Ehrhoff's getting $10 million this season alone. Oh, I'd say $4.5 or more for Jason Garrison is entirely possible considering that apart from Garrison and that Suter kid, there isn't a hell of a whole lot on the FA market in terms of puckmoving defensemen.
James Wisniewski's getting $7 million and Christian Ehrhoff's getting $10 million this season alone. Oh, I'd say $4.5 or more for Jason Garrison is entirely possible considering that apart from Garrison and that Suter kid, there isn't a hell of a whole lot on the FA market in terms of puckmoving defensemen.
Ehrhoff is just front loaded, his cap hit for what he brings isn't bad at all. If Pegula doesn't care about money, that contract really isn't that bad. Wisniewski's is... ya I agree with you on that.
Wisniewski getting 7 million, ehrhoff 10, and people saying we can get Suter for a 6 something average.
