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Pierre Gauthier & Bob Gainey let go - Savard brought back in advisory role - Part II

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04-01-2012, 09:24 AM
  #951
Andrighetto Fabolous
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Well there's a whole lot of unknown here. Do Timmins wants to move on at some point? Would he be offended to not be considered? Would he then loves to get out? Will he pushed out by the newcomers? All sorts of possibilities that could very well happen. But can we actually do right now with his departure?

Yet in naming Timmins as a GM, you get a good talent evaluator. Something tells me he wouldn't trade Gomez for McDonagh. So he might be a good pro evaluator as well. And a guy with his drafting background might actually go and see prospects play whether they are our own and somebody else's to actually see with his own eyes if we make a mistake or not in a future trade. AND THEN, since he wouldn't have the time to do the head scout job himself, I'd trust a guy who has his record to know which head scout he gives the job too. You do think that he knows his own record and wouldn't expect less from the new guy in town.

So not only you keep a great mind in the organization. But you EXPAND his knowledge through the whole organization. He is the ONLY good news in this management group. How can it be bad?
Make Timmins GM and give him someone who has experience in the league like Andre Savard as his assistant and I think he'd do a great job.

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04-01-2012, 09:25 AM
  #952
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I've never really thought about this till now but how in the hell is he on tv? I mean, doesn't Patrick Roy have a huge francophone folowing in Quebec, isn't he still adored by francophones, why don't more people hate Tremblay for what he did?

Or is that why he's on tv, to be an antagonist? I'm sorry, I really don't understand the french media / culture in regards to the Habs.
For all the things that happened, people realises that Mario bleeds more red, white and blue than Roy could ever be. Tremblay was a warrior. Also when Roy had his disputes with Tremblay, it was a time when a lot of fans were tired with Roy's antics and sided with Mario. That Houle didn't give enough for him is another matter.

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Old
04-01-2012, 09:34 AM
  #953
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Make Timmins GM and give him someone who has experience in the league like Andre Savard as his assistant and I think he'd do a great job.
Let's not overrate Timmins because the whole scouting staff is doing a good job. Besides we're especially good at drafting oscure european players in the later rounds, and for most of these guys, Timmins probably never saw them play before the draft.

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04-01-2012, 09:36 AM
  #954
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Just one more thing, Montreal TRIED to do the Detroit model, and it failed on the ice.


If ou want the Detroit model, it needs to start with Detroit management ..they know best what Detroit model is,
And the Detroit model started where? In Montreal. It's Bowman that brought the Habs model to Detroit. Habs have had problems since Serge Savard left because their was a fracture from how they used to proceed.

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04-01-2012, 09:46 AM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
And the Detroit model started where? In Montreal. It's Bowman that brought the Habs model to Detroit. Habs have had problems since Serge Savard left because their was a fracture from how they used to proceed.
Kenny Holland on many occassions on the radio and tv said that former Great Habs GM Sam Pollock was his inspirtation to build a team....

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04-01-2012, 09:54 AM
  #956
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Let's not overrate Timmins because the whole scouting staff is doing a good job. Besides we're especially good at drafting oscure european players in the later rounds, and for most of these guys, Timmins probably never saw them play before the draft.
You actually believe that Timmins never saw any of his late round draft picks before the draft? I take it this was just said for effect and that no one would actually think such a silly thing. Also I'd say some of his best picks were North American in Subban, Pac, Price, McDonagh, etc...

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04-01-2012, 10:03 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by Jellybeans View Post
Kenny Holland on many occassions on the radio and tv said that former Great Habs GM Sam Pollock was his inspirtation to build a team....
But Holland did not build the Wings, Bowman did when he was hired as Vice President hockey. Nevertheless, Scotty would have used that model anyway. Habs in the 70s and 80s had a group of brainiac that knew their stuff, it wasn't just one guy. For example many are saying the Habs losing Claude Ruel(The Habs' own Nill) was a big blow to them. The guy was literaly molding young guys into NHL players.

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04-01-2012, 10:04 AM
  #958
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I know folks love Nill because he's with the Wings but man.. they got lucky. Sorry but they did. And once Lidstrom leaves I don't see that club staying as awesome as they've been. Yes, he comes from a winning organization but I really think that Timmins has done better than Detroit has with what he's had to work with since he took over.
Aye, Detroit partly fell into success by taking advantage of teams ignoring European players. Emulating them is simply not a possibility in today's NHL unless we find say, the Japanese equivalent of Pavel Datsyuk no one knows about. Detroit has an odd philosophy of overdeveloping their prospect, which is frankly, one of the reasons I believe many do not turn out. You can only keep good players in the AHL for so long before their talent begins to wane. I'd agree, Timmins has drafting better, especially when the last decent player Detroit's drafted was Helm and a few others but no one earth shattering. Granted, if they can grab Suter or Weber, losing Lidstrom won't hurt too much.

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Old
04-01-2012, 10:07 AM
  #959
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Let's not overrate Timmins because the whole scouting staff is doing a good job. Besides we're especially good at drafting oscure european players in the later rounds, and for most of these guys, Timmins probably never saw them play before the draft.
Even better, as head scout it means he has to manage and deal with all of his scouts oppinion and make an informed decision. That's the sign of a good manager and leader. Just saying. For the record, I'd rather Timmins stay head scout than GM

The Canadiens are a "class" first organisation, they still prefer the low key approach and that's how you will win the GM job in Montreal. It's bound to be someone flying under the radar that no one will have heard of (mostly).
Expect the unexpected !

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04-01-2012, 11:34 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
And the Detroit model started where? In Montreal. It's Bowman that brought the Habs model to Detroit. Habs have had problems since Serge Savard left because their was a fracture from how they used to proceed.
Serge Savard also left a reputation of picking a wagon train of big western Canadian duds year after year.

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04-01-2012, 11:42 AM
  #961
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Serge Savard also left a reputation of picking a wagon train of big western Canadian duds year after year.
True.

All these Savard apologist coming out of the woodwork have short memories. The same complaints we hear today about not picking enough local talent were there during Savard's tenure.

Still, we shouldn't worry too much about Serge's presence. He's here to help out Molson with the search, not revamp the scouting department.

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04-01-2012, 11:49 AM
  #962
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Does anyone have the video of Scotty Bowman on the CBC last night?

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04-01-2012, 11:54 AM
  #963
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The canadiens of the mid 80's had 5 to 6 europeans along with 5 americans in 1993 when they won the cup they had 12 french canadiens which is more than any era.The problem is that the quebec league are not producing top players.Many of the kids in Quebec play football their programs are the best in Canada.

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04-01-2012, 11:55 AM
  #964
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
For all the things that happened, people realises that Mario bleeds more red, white and blue than Roy could ever be. Tremblay was a warrior. Also when Roy had his disputes with Tremblay, it was a time when a lot of fans were tired with Roy's antics and sided with Mario. That Houle didn't give enough for him is another matter.
I agree and Habs fans really need to try to forgive Tremblay. He was an inexperience hotheaded coach who clashed with an equally strong personality. He screwed up, but so did everyone including Roy, and if anything Tremblay was more interested in what was best for the Habs than Roy was.

I'm not saying I want Tremblay back in the organization. But as an analyst I think he's worth at least listening to.

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Old
04-01-2012, 12:00 PM
  #965
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Re: Scotty Bowman about the "french factor" : what a nutjob, eh ?

Right ?

Right, guys ?

Total nutjob, eh ?





Right ?

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Old
04-01-2012, 12:09 PM
  #966
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I've never really thought about this till now but how in the hell is he on tv? I mean, doesn't Patrick Roy have a huge francophone folowing in Quebec, isn't he still adored by francophones, why don't more people hate Tremblay for what he did?
If you blame Tremblay for Roy's departure you are entirely clueless about the whole thing.

First and foremost, the fault lies on Corey for appointing Houle/Tremblay. Houle and Tremblay were good habs soldiers and would never turn down the team if it needed help.

Second, it lies with the Molson family for wanting to get rid of the team and cut the funds to sign players.

Third, with Houle for not convincing Roy to mend bridges with Tremblay, or even fire Tremblay. Failing that, Corey could have fired Houle+Tremblay. Still no ? Well the Molson family could have fired Corey+Houle+Tremblay. No ? Well, how about getting a just return for a 2 time conn smythe winner ? Well I guess that's all on Tremblay.

Fourth, it lies with Roy. He couldn't stomach Tremblay as coach despite the fact it wasn't his job to decide who was gonna coach the habs. He was a player who just had to shut up and play but he had become bigger than the coach. Roy wanted out, he knew the habs were a sinking ship, the wings-habs debacle was just a convenient excuse to pull off his little stunt.

Fifth, maybe to Tremblay for being too inexperienced and naive in thinking that players should have been respectful of their coach and being too much of a hard ass because that's what he knew from his past as a player. I don't understand people like you who blame Tremblay like this when in truth, he was probably the least responsible for that whole mess.

Quote:
Or is that why he's on tv, to be an antagonist? I'm sorry, I really don't understand the french media / culture in regards to the Habs.
It's not a language thing, it's you who misplaces the blame completely. Mario is the least responsible for that situation. It's like blaming a fire for a burn. The problem is not the fire, it's whoever put their hand in the fire, or who set the fire. Or like blaming a mistreated dog for biting someone's head off.

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04-01-2012, 12:23 PM
  #967
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I'm also pretty sure Roy kind of admitted he didn't really wanted out, he just blew a fuse and management took him seriously, and he was too stubborn and/or the trade happened too quickly for all parties to calm down and reconsider.

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04-01-2012, 12:28 PM
  #968
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[QUOTE=Goldthorpe;47097913]I'm also pretty sure Roy kind of admitted he didn't really wanted out, he just blew a fuse and management took him seriously, and he was too stubborn and/or the trade happened too quickly for all parties to calm down and reconsider.[/QUOTE]

Houle should not had accepted anything less than Sakic or Forsberg for Roy.

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04-01-2012, 12:32 PM
  #969
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Tremblay should have pulled Roy after 5 goals as any sane coach would have. He wanted to humiliate him in front of the Forum crowd and that was a huge blunder on his part. Anyways, I'll welcome Roy back with open arms if he's chosen as coach.

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04-01-2012, 12:36 PM
  #970
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Imagine the PGT of that 11-1 loss to Detroit

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04-01-2012, 12:39 PM
  #971
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I'm also pretty sure Roy kind of admitted he didn't really wanted out, he just blew a fuse and management took him seriously, and he was too stubborn and/or the trade happened too quickly for all parties to calm down and reconsider.
It's easy to say that after the fact.

Do you think Roy would come out and say he really did want out if that had been the case ? Of course Roy will say that, really doesn't mean it's true at all.

I'd actually be a lot more inclined to believe that this was the plan all along, and the best way to get out and go join his former agent in Colorado.

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04-01-2012, 12:50 PM
  #972
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Tremblay should have pulled Roy after 5 goals as any sane coach would have. He wanted to humiliate him in front of the Forum crowd and that was a huge blunder on his part. Anyways, I'll welcome Roy back with open arms if he's chosen as coach.
You seem to think the whole situation happened just because Tremblay randomly decided to humiliate Roy for no reason. That's extremely naive and simplistic. And that's before even accounting for the fact that Roy's response was INCREDIBLY disproportionate.

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04-01-2012, 01:10 PM
  #973
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You seem to think the whole situation happened just because Tremblay randomly decided to humiliate Roy for no reason. That's extremely naive and simplistic. And that's before even accounting for the fact that Roy's response was INCREDIBLY disproportionate.
Just trying to spread the blame around. I witnessed the event first hand and you could see the smugness in Mario's face when Roy skated over to the bench and the frustration in his demeanor. They both deserve equal share of the blame.

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04-01-2012, 01:26 PM
  #974
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If memory serves....
Roy was walking around like he was bigger than the team
Tremblay came from an era where team came first
so he decided to teach Roy a lesson (imho..it was a lesson he could probably stand learning; granted execution may have been lacking)
As much as I dislike Roy for his stance in all this I blame Houle and Corey beyond all else.
Houle for not trying to put out the fire and Corey as President for not demanding a greater return from his GM.
You can't really blame a bag o' dirt like Roy for being born and possibly raised the way he was.
And as wrong as Tremblay was you can't blame him (not really) for trying to impress on all his players that TEAM comes first - as he was one of the Quebec born players that truly bled bleu blanc rouge

That being said, I'm torn.
Part of me wants no part of Roy anywhere near this franchise

Another part of me says let Mcguire AND Roy come in so we can really enjoy the frenzy and circus before we get back to serious hockey and the bonus is we'll likely walk away with a couple of high draft picks

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04-01-2012, 02:16 PM
  #975
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Saying that Tremblay was least responsible is just silly.
Corey was a fool, Houle was a simpleton, and Tremblay was a donkey.

I felt ill when I watched that game. Roy was not bigger than the team, people say that to justify their contempt for him. He was their leader, on and off the ice. He was their franchise player, led them to 3 finals, & two championships. Tremblay was a hot tempered commentator who became the coach with zero experience and didn't want to share the limelight. He failed to realize that there was only one horse that pulled this cart, and when you beat him to death, that cart isn't going to move anymore. Coaches need their veterans & leaders to buy in or they lose the room. Instead of respecting his leaders, he belittled them and his system & style was clearly that of someone who has never coached. the leaders of the team could not have respected him. I find it hard to believe that any other competitive goalie, lets say Brodeur, would have accepted being intentionally embarassed on home ice and not demand to be traded. The team failed Roy but implementing a special needs management team. Houle is not in hockey anymore, and the only reason Tremblay got a job as asstnt coach is because Lemaire is his buddy.

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