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"Schenn's play is at an all time low"

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03-30-2012, 01:29 AM
  #26
Stephen
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Originally Posted by The Naz View Post
I thought Gardiner was ****in brutal today. But I guess he's still shiny and new.
Gardiner can be awful defensively, no doubt, but he is a rookie in the NHL and has only played defense since after he was drafted, I believe, so he gets a pass for now. Schenn has no excuse. He's just a garbage player who should be shipped out of town. He's definitely an entitled first round pick the way he's been so complacent with his own mediocrity.

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03-30-2012, 01:35 AM
  #27
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I'm gone weary of Morrison's draft skills in the 1st round the last couple of years. They've all been safe picks, none with elite potential. Of course when we drafted 5th and 7th, drafting guys like Karlsson and Myers, Kulikov etc, where we drafted, the fan base would of screamed at him for taking guys pegged for later in the draft.

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03-30-2012, 01:43 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Beezle View Post
I'm gone weary of Morrison's draft skills in the 1st round the last couple of years. They've all been safe picks, none with elite potential. Of course when we drafted 5th and 7th, drafting guys like Karlsson and Myers, Kulikov etc, where we drafted, the fan base would of screamed at him for taking guys pegged for later in the draft.
It's a no-wins situation with fans here pertaining to the draft.

Fans will rip on anyone. Also, am I the only one that thought that Biggs and Percy were risky picks compared to who else was around there at the time?

People will rip on 1st round picks here, and write them off, and all that jazz, until Don Cherry features that prospect on Coach's Corner, and then we will pretend that we all loved him from day 1.

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03-30-2012, 01:45 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Beezle View Post
I'm gone weary of Morrison's draft skills in the 1st round the last couple of years. They've all been safe picks, none with elite potential. Of course when we drafted 5th and 7th, drafting guys like Karlsson and Myers, Kulikov etc, where we drafted, the fan base would of screamed at him for taking guys pegged for later in the draft.
The way every aspect of the organization has been a failure lately, it would be nice to have someone take a fine tooth comb to the whole thing and re-examine what works and what doesn't. Morrison's gotten a lot of credit but hasn't really done too much great work at all. I'd like to see more out of Thommie Bergmann in Europe. More Tuukka Rasks and less Luke Schenns, please.

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03-30-2012, 01:51 AM
  #30
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Give him another year under Carlye. If things don't improve.......

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03-30-2012, 01:55 AM
  #31
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Give him another year under Carlye. If things don't improve.......
If things don't improve, you have a dud defenseman who has zero value across the league.

At the very least, you throw his name into the hat of guys that you would be willing to trade in order to land a goalie or a number 1 center in the off season.

If there's no deal, then you keep him, but I don't think there's a way Burke can't at least try and shop Schenn in the summer and see what value is out there.

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03-30-2012, 02:13 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
If things don't improve, you have a dud defenseman who has zero value across the league.

At the very least, you throw his name into the hat of guys that you would be willing to trade in order to land a goalie or a number 1 center in the off season.

If there's no deal, then you keep him, but I don't think there's a way Burke can't at least try and shop Schenn in the summer and see what value is out there.
If that's a possibility, then I agree. We have the depth.

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03-30-2012, 02:16 AM
  #33
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Schenn is a waste of a roster spot. The Jays knew good enough to send Travis Snider down because he's not progressing well enough to earn a spot in the bigs; the same should be done with Schenn.

The defensive defenseman who can't skate and has no defensive awareness experiment is over.

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If there's no deal, then you keep him, but I don't think there's a way Burke can't at least try and shop Schenn in the summer and see what value is out there.
Agreed. And honestly, staying the course is the worst possible thing this team can do at this point. It's the definition of insanity.

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03-30-2012, 02:18 AM
  #34
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Come on guys, wake up.

The young defensive defenseman is at an all time low right when the team is as well?

Guys like Schenn are like goalies. They can't look good when the team is losing.

Give him a break.

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03-30-2012, 02:19 AM
  #35
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If that's a possibility, then I agree. We have the depth.
It's not a question of whether or not it's a possibility.

The free agent market is crap this summer, and any improvements this team makes (with the expensive exception that might be Josh Harding), will involve upgrades coming via a trade.

That means Burke will have to be kicking tires to land a number 1 goalie and a number 1 center, via trades. There will have to be subtraction from this roster in order to land those caliber players, and at the very least, Schenn's name has to be put into those packages offered.

If other teams mock at Schenn's inclusion over a Gardiner and Gunnarsson (IMO that's what will happen), then so be it, but Burke has to at least throw Schenn in and see if anyone bites.

He can't have this - "I'm not trading Luke" approach in the summer, or the "I'm listening, but not offering away Luke" approach he had at the deadline.

It's worth noting that other than Lupul, Kessel, and Gardiner, I would pretty much extend that to everyone on the roster, but given Schenn's relative importance to the roster in relation to his potential he would be the first guy I put into every trade offer.

I'm not writing Schenn off - I've backed the guy since day 1, and I think he will become a solid NHLer. But, there is a very real chance that Luke Schenn comes back next year and has the same, crap, low confidence, error-filled year that he had this year. At that point, Schenn has ZERO value.

You have to at least see what you can get with him right now. If there's nothing of note, then keep him. But you have to try.

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03-30-2012, 02:21 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by trickster View Post
Come on guys, wake up.

The young defensive defenseman is at an all time low right when the team is as well?

Guys like Schenn are like goalies. They can't look good when the team is losing.

Give him a break.
You've got the cart before the horse. The team is losing because players like him aren't performing, not the other way around.

If you truly believe this, then don't you believe in accountability?

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03-30-2012, 02:24 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
It's not a question of whether or not it's a possibility.

The free agent market is crap this summer, and any improvements this team makes (with the expensive exception that might be Josh Harding), will involve upgrades coming via a trade.

That means Burke will have to be kicking tires to land a number 1 goalie and a number 1 center, via trades. There will have to be subtraction from this roster in order to land those caliber players, and at the very least, Schenn's name has to be put into those packages offered.

If other teams mock at Schenn's inclusion over a Gardiner and Gunnarsson (IMO that's what will happen), then so be it, but Burke has to at least throw Schenn in and see if anyone bites.

He can't have this - "I'm not trading Luke" approach in the summer, or the "I'm listening, but not offering away Luke" approach he had at the deadline.

It's worth noting that other than Lupul, Kessel, and Gardiner, I would pretty much extend that to everyone on the roster, but given Schenn's relative importance to the roster in relation to his potential he would be the first guy I put into every trade offer.

I'm not writing Schenn off - I've backed the guy since day 1, and I think he will become a solid NHLer. But, there is a very real chance that Luke Schenn comes back next year and has the same, crap, low confidence, error-filled year that he had this year. At that point, Schenn has ZERO value.

You have to at least see what you can get with him right now. If there's nothing of note, then keep him. But you have to try.
Even with a weak UFA market I doubt there are many teams out there begging for a pylon getting paid 3.6 over the next four years. Only team I can see taking that contract on is the Blue Jackets for Nash.

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03-30-2012, 02:24 AM
  #38
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Come on guys, wake up.

The young defensive defenseman is at an all time low right when the team is as well?

Guys like Schenn are like goalies. They can't look good when the team is losing.

Give him a break.
He's been crap. End of story.

While he's not the only one, and he doesn't deserve to be vilified, he's been crap.

Therefore he 100% deserves to be questioned, criticized, and pondered about.

Anything else suggests that there should be zero/reduced accountability on the team, and that's not good enough.

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03-30-2012, 02:28 AM
  #39
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The flack Schenn gets is astonishing. Fair weather fans who barely see the kid play call him '****' because that's fashionable now.

Fing ridiculous. This is how you kill a prospects confidence in Toronto.

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03-30-2012, 02:30 AM
  #40
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Even with a weak UFA market I doubt there are many teams out there begging for a pylon getting paid 3.6 over the next four years. Only team I can see taking that contract on is the Blue Jackets for Nash.
You may be right.

For what it's worth, I do believe Schenn has value across the league. Your pylon bit is a bit harsh; I don't think he has premium value (I shot down the JVR for Schenn stuff as soon as I heard it), but I do think he can be packaged for something.

Is that package with Schenn going to get you a return of a first line center or a number goalie? Probably not.

Is that package with Schenn going to get you a piece or two that will improve this team? Maybe.Maybe a deal is out there.

I'm more comfortable with exercising that maybe that the maybe pertaining to Schenn next year:

Will Schenn bounce back next year? Maybe. And guess what? If he doesn't, he will have the equivalent value of that pylon getting paid 3.6 million. I'm very uncomfortable taking that risk.

The "see what you can get" approach seems like the low risk move to me right now.

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03-30-2012, 02:34 AM
  #41
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Will Schenn bounce back next year? Maybe. And guess what? If he doesn't, he will have the equivalent value of that pylon getting paid 3.6 million. I'm very uncomfortable taking that risk.

The "see what you can get" approach seems like the low risk move to me right now.
Totally agree with you here. There's a chance he rebounds, but I don't think it will be here, in this atmosphere. Sometimes a change of scenery can do wonders. I agree that if he doesn't turn it around next year, in this dismal atmosphere, then his value will be shot.

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03-30-2012, 02:34 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
This is how you kill a prospects confidence in Toronto.
Not the constant giveaways, poor positioning or the third pairing demotion.

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03-30-2012, 02:36 AM
  #43
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Not the constant giveaways, poor positioning or the third pairing demotion.
No, none of that. It's forum smack that fuels the pressure cooker that is Toronto.

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03-30-2012, 02:39 AM
  #44
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This is what happens when you try to pawn a chunk of granite off as a 10k diamond.

Defensive d-men are at their best when barely noticed. Sure during the playoffs a shut down asignment like Hal Gill has pulled off a few times can bring some exposure, but for the most part a defensive d-man has a good game when he isn't on the highlite reel.

This kid has been made the Face of the Franchise. Remember the "Future Captain" label?
Luke's Troop's is an entire production now.

He was Burke's first "piece of the future" and has been given about 1000x more attention than he deserves.

The worst thing for him was to make the Leafs, legitimately earn his spot, as an 18yr old.

The last 3 yrs are a mystery. Is it his own limitations? Is/was it the coaching? It sure seems like he's regressed. I thought he was suposed to be tough. But the kid I thought was getting his @ss beat because he was just 18 playing against men is still getting his butt kicked at 22.

Seriously. if you want enforcer/toughness/imtimidation/... as part of your resume then take a friggin boxing lesson. Kane v. Cooke. search it.
They say your skating is slow? Take some speed skating lessons.
Just show some improvement.

As much as I can rag on him I salute him for his support of our armed forces, and I feel sorry for him.

A place like Nashville or Phoenix where he would't have even been looked at for the starting line up until he was 21 or 22 would have been perfect for him. Unfortunately he was ranked way to high to get drafted into those systems. That was the first burden. 5th overall.

He started as a longshot potential #2. The shut down side of a #1 unit.
Then it was a potential of a #3-4 guy. Still good.
Now he's a good #5. For a #5 his price is way to high.

I dunno.

I feel sorry for Luke more than anything.

I think the Leafs tried to turn a rock into a diamond and ruined something solid.

I think they need to trade him.

A rock is going to crumble under the pressure it takes to make a diamond, and I think that is what is going on here.

Granted he might only get a 3rd round pick for him right now. But this is getting cruel.
Hell BUrke fired Wilson so he wouldn't have to hear the chants at the ACC, but this kid has suffered for 3 years.

The Hand-Picked Poster Boy(Truculence, Beligerance, etc) only to become the Whipping Boy. Nice way to treat a kid.

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03-30-2012, 02:44 AM
  #45
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No, none of that. It's forum smack that fuels the pressure cooker that is Toronto.
At this point, the correct move for his development is a long term stint with the marlies. Let him work his way back to the 22-23min avg while he's still waiver exempt (almost positive he is).

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03-30-2012, 02:47 AM
  #46
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You've got the cart before the horse. The team is losing because players like him aren't performing, not the other way around.

If you truly believe this, then don't you believe in accountability?
Players like him or just him?
Seems like he is getting an unfair share of the blame...

Furthermore, which other players are like him? Not a lot of guys on this roster who make their living stopping guys from scoring or providing a physical element. He is an easy target on a team when guys like macarthur and bozak cause goals with screw ups 200 feet from their net. No one sees them because they have made their line change and left Schenn and Gardiner dealing with a 4 on 2.

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03-30-2012, 02:55 AM
  #47
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He's been crap. End of story.

While he's not the only one, and he doesn't deserve to be vilified, he's been crap.

Therefore he 100% deserves to be questioned, criticized, and pondered about.

Anything else suggests that there should be zero/reduced accountability on the team, and that's not good enough.
Go take a walk... Power down the pc...

Think about the fact that the world is not really how anyone of us percieves it... Not me, not you, not don cherry...

Your perception and my perception of reality differ greatly here... but we're all wrong and it doesn't matter... Do I think Schenn has been great? No. Do i think he has been crap? No.

Imagine Luke Schenn is your son... How does he deserve to be treated? Sure, we want to hear his perspective on this all, but not the way that db on ctv approached him...

The Leaf environment is caustic right now, and for the good of the maple leaf, we all need to take a breather...

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Old
03-30-2012, 02:58 AM
  #48
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Right now he is playing brutal, but hopefully he gathers himself (and for a full 82 game season) for the next year.

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03-30-2012, 03:03 AM
  #49
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At this point, the correct move for his development is a long term stint with the marlies. Let him work his way back to the 22-23min avg while he's still waiver exempt (almost positive he is).
Nope. He has passed his 160 game threshold.

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03-30-2012, 03:45 AM
  #50
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Think it's obvious something is going on behind the scenes with him and other players. He's checked out of this city because of it. Will be interesting to see who BB ships out of town this offseason.

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