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Leafs lose HUGE 7-1. Let's go Blue Jays..

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03-30-2012, 12:57 AM
  #351
Marco Esquandolas
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I thought the Gustavsson question was a little over the top, and I don't see why Gardiner should have to answer for anything when he's been one of the few bright spots this season.

Aside from that, it was some pretty refreshing reporting, and very revealing. I'm looking at you, Dion.

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03-30-2012, 01:00 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by NaiveLeafsFan View Post
Disappointed that Schenn couldn't even muster an apology for the people that come out and pay his salary.

I thought the questions were warranted with the way they've played. Don't get me wrong, I am happy with the way we've tanked. I am not happy with the lack of effort. It's embarrassing that some of these guys even have the opportunity to suit up as a Maple Leaf, but to go out and not throw everything on the line is just pathetic.

I like that tough questions were asked. But I dont think Schenn should apologize.

If someone lacks in effort, then I guess you can make the case for apologizing. But for a guy like Schenn... he goes out every night and does his best.. What else can you ask from him?

He's being paid to go out and work hard, and thats what he does.
If you dont think hes good enough to be on the team, or good enough to earn his minutes, thats a management issue. not schenns issue.

No apology necessary IMO

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03-30-2012, 01:10 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Players are accountable to each other, the coaches, management and the league.

Our fans feel some sort of entitlement that the players are accountable to us. To that I say "Whatever". Fans have the right to boo the team they cheer for, to send a message about the performance of the team. But it ends there.

How would you like it if a customer of the firm you work at came in and started grilling you about your performance and blaming you for everyone else's failures? Or asking a question along the lines of: "How does it feel knowing you're going to be fired in two months?" It's not their place..
Hockey teams make their money through merchandise, ticket sales, concession sales, and TV deals. What do these things all have in common? The money comes from the fans. The fans are the ones that pay the bills. Plain and simple. They pay for a product, and if the product is sub-par, they have full right to complain.

If I'm the manager of an establishment, I expect all complaints to filter through me and have the blame placed on me. That's what comes with being a manger, and in this case, being a captain. You take the blame and move on, doing your best to avoid the problem in question again. You don't deflect the blame the other employees when talking to the customer.

These guys are paid big bucks to deal with the stress that comes with the job. Yes, they are human. Yes, it sucks when your job performance is being questioned. Yes, it sucks when you don't have all the answers, but goddammit they are not children. They don't need to be coddled, and at this point, they certainly don't deserve it.

I'll agree that the question to Gustavsson was out of place, but the others were legitimate questions and deserve an answer.

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03-30-2012, 01:11 AM
  #354
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I blame the season ticket holders. Hey Burke, you need to build through the draft. Accept it. Enough of these quick fixes. Look what happens. If it doesnt work you're in a worse position. At least they'll get a good pick. Now dont screw it up and win a few games now. Most of these players have given up already.

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03-30-2012, 01:31 AM
  #355
Duke Silver
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Originally Posted by Joseppi View Post
Hockey teams make their money through merchandise, ticket sales, concession sales, and TV deals. What do these things all have in common? The money comes from the fans. The fans are the ones that pay the bills. Plain and simple. They pay for a product, and if the product is sub-par, they have full right to complain.

If I'm the manager of an establishment, I expect all complaints to filter through me and have the blame placed on me. That's what comes with being a manger, and in this case, being a captain. You take the blame and move on, doing your best to avoid the problem in question again. You don't deflect the blame the other employees when talking to the customer.

These guys are paid big bucks to deal with the stress that comes with the job. Yes, they are human. Yes, it sucks when your job performance is being questioned. Yes, it sucks when you don't have all the answers, but goddammit they are not children. They don't need to be coddled, and at this point, they certainly don't deserve it.

I'll agree that the question to Gustavsson was out of place, but the others were legitimate questions and deserve an answer.
Again with the entitlement. Your money goes toward a whole lot of things that MLSE does. Are you going to go into the Maple Leaf Square condos and demand a room because "I helped pay for this!".

The manager of this establishment is Brian Burke, not Dion Phaneuf. If you're the manager of a McDonalds and a customer wants to complain, that customer (if they're not totally insane) goes to you to complain about crappy service, he (rightfully) doesn't blame the cashier who didn't even take the order. He wants to know what the manager is going to do to rectify the situation.

This reporter was asking a bunch of questions he knew there would be no readily-available answers for. It's shocking how people can't see right through his motives. This was a ploy to gain name recognition under the guise of being a "voice of the people". That's gotcha journalism. It's like a few nights ago when Wolf Blitzer asked Mitt Romney what movie he saw with his grandchildren over the weekend, with the intention of immediately following it up with "Isn't that a little violent for children?" It's sneaky. It's poor journalism. And it's why people like Nancy Gracy thrive in this shock-over-substance news arena.

There's a certain level of decorum expected of media members. He violated those rules to push a personal agenda. That's out of line. He mistreated the players. No wonder people don't want to play here if they have to deal with that. They should expect to answer tough questions, but not like that, where an apology is basically being solicited.

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03-30-2012, 01:52 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
So what exactly is a captain and leadership team supposed to do? Talk to ref regarding penalties? Guess what? Refs talk to coaches directly most of the time. Sorry, I forgot that teams employ captain to change songs on iPod in locker room.

Sure.. there are many things that constitute a cup winning team, but the captain of the cup winning team has been an extra ordinary leader AND a player.

The list goes as Zdeno Chara, Jonathan Toews, Sidney Crosby, Niklas Lidstrom, Scott Niedermeyer, Rod Brind'Amour, Dave Andreychuk, Scott Stevens, Steve Yzerman, Joe Sakic.

Now tell me if you see Dion fitting in that company in near future.
I don't see the point you're making. A team's captain is usually it's best player. And you're saying that cup-winning teams have good players? Absolutely shocking. Please, tell me more.

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03-30-2012, 01:53 AM
  #357
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I don't see the point you're making. A team's captain is usually it's best player. And you're saying that cup-winning teams have good players? Absolutely shocking. Please, tell me more.
Yes. They all won the Conn Smythe for their respective year. True story.

Perhaps, I should've also bolded the leader part of my past.

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03-30-2012, 01:53 AM
  #358
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If you are seriously making the argument that leadership is in anyway correlated to a team's success, I am going to please ask you to go ahead and remove yourself from this site.
Uh.... what?

Leadership is not only correlated to a team's success, it's a pretty integral part of any successful team.

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03-30-2012, 01:54 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Again with the entitlement. Your money goes toward a whole lot of things that MLSE does. Are you going to go into the Maple Leaf Square condos and demand a room because "I helped pay for this!".

The manager of this establishment is Brian Burke, not Dion Phaneuf. If you're the manager of a McDonalds and a customer wants to complain, that customer (if they're not totally insane) goes to you to complain about crappy service, he (rightfully) doesn't blame the cashier who didn't even take the order. He wants to know what the manager is going to do to rectify the situation.

This reporter was asking a bunch of questions he knew there would be no readily-available answers for. It's shocking how people can't see right through his motives. This was a ploy to gain name recognition under the guise of being a "voice of the people". That's gotcha journalism. It's like a few nights ago when Wolf Blitzer asked Mitt Romney what movie he saw with his grandchildren over the weekend, with the intention of immediately following it up with "Isn't that a little violent for children?" It's sneaky. It's poor journalism. And it's why people like Nancy Gracy thrive in this shock-over-substance news arena.

There's a certain level of decorum expected of media members. He violated those rules to push a personal agenda. That's out of line. He mistreated the players. No wonder people don't want to play here if they have to deal with that. They should expect to answer tough questions, but not like that, where an apology is basically being solicited.
MLSE gets their money from the fans, the ones that pay for the product. MLSE pays the players. Direct connection.

You're using McDonalds as an analog, so I'll go along with you on that (worked there a few years in my youth). Burke would be the location owner. The head manager would be Carlyle, and the assistant managers would be the captain and the alternates. If they can't handle the responsibility that comes along with being a captain/manager, they shouldn't be there in the first place.

The bolded is something that needs to be addressed. The reporter asks questions the players aren't used to hearing, and that's a bad thing? Cookie cutter questions and answers don't cut it at this point. There's no reason the team should've come out as flat as they did. They had a rookie goaltender starting his first NHL game and couldn't even play HALF-decent defense in front of him. I couldn't even name 5 players that had a half decent game! That's a big problem showing a gaping hole in character - something that professional athletes need in spades. Something that should be an ingrained part of their person.

These guys are professionals paid handsomely to deliver a product. If the product is **** with little effort put into it (with the highest price tag of any comparable product), is the customer wrong to question it? Is the customer wrong to want somebody held accountable? Is the customer wrong to want answers?

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03-30-2012, 02:01 AM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
Yes. They all won the Conn Smythe for their respective year. True story.

Perhaps, I should've also bolded the leader part of my past.
Is the Conn Smythe awarded to the best leader of the playoffs? Dude, you're not separating "good" from "captain." Let's assume:

[A] Player X is a generational/prodigious player

Because of [A] then:

[B] Player X is captain of his respective team

And the completely separate species:

[C] Player X won the Conn Smythe

Your argument is that A+B+C = a good leader, when realistically, that's pure fabrication. There is no way to qualitatively measure the impact of leadership or captaincy on the performance of a team. Any argument otherwise is rooted purely in the anecdotal, of which I have no interest in.

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Originally Posted by DarwinWasAdopted View Post
Uh.... what?

Leadership is not only correlated to a team's success, it's a pretty integral part of any successful team.
Please go on. Tell me how and in what specific ways leadership is instrumental to a team's success.

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Old
03-30-2012, 03:01 AM
  #361
Duke Silver
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Originally Posted by Joseppi View Post
MLSE gets their money from the fans, the ones that pay for the product. MLSE pays the players. Direct connection.

You're using McDonalds as an analog, so I'll go along with you on that (worked there a few years in my youth). Burke would be the location owner. The head manager would be Carlyle, and the assistant managers would be the captain and the alternates. If they can't handle the responsibility that comes along with being a captain/manager, they shouldn't be there in the first place.

The bolded is something that needs to be addressed. The reporter asks questions the players aren't used to hearing, and that's a bad thing? Cookie cutter questions and answers don't cut it at this point. There's no reason the team should've come out as flat as they did. They had a rookie goaltender starting his first NHL game and couldn't even play HALF-decent defense in front of him. I couldn't even name 5 players that had a half decent game! That's a big problem showing a gaping hole in character - something that professional athletes need in spades. Something that should be an ingrained part of their person.

These guys are professionals paid handsomely to deliver a product. If the product is **** with little effort put into it (with the highest price tag of any comparable product), is the customer wrong to question it? Is the customer wrong to want somebody held accountable? Is the customer wrong to want answers?
MLSE doesn't only get their money from the fans. They get it from advertisers, vendors and (possibly) broadcasters as well. The fact that you pay for an entertainment service doesn't automatically mean you're directly entitled to any sort of accountability from the people who present it. Are you entitled to a direct apology from Hayden Christensen because his performance in Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith didn't appease you? I mean, using your logic, the fact that you've paid for tickets to that production company's movies before, and thus are indirectly funding future movies entitles you to that, right? No. You feel let down. You're angry. I understand that. But Hayden Christensen, nor the Leafs players, personally owe the fans anything. That sort of power and entitlement isn't included in the ticket price.

The interviews were from the morning skate, not after the Flyers game. So what you're saying doesn't apply here.

Voice your criticisms all you want. I sure have, but in the right forum to do so. You should never make it personal like this journalist did and ask people gotcha questions designed to humiliate them. You gonna give Phil Kessel a piece of your mind if you ever see him walking down the street? How about Dion? No, because it's not your job: that's the coach's job on the ice and in the room.

We're getting past the issue here that this is gotcha journalism with a hidden agenda and has no place happening. Media members aren't supposed to be the ones calling out and embarrassing players to their faces. Nor should we ever do so. Hell, over the last two months they've embarrassed themselves quite handily. But that's a line that shouldn't be crossed, especially from a media-member. It's inappropriate. Safe to say he'll never be granted access into that dressing room again.


Last edited by Duke Silver: 03-30-2012 at 03:14 AM.
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03-30-2012, 03:07 AM
  #362
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ive been on the tank team since the start of the season, keep it up boys


Lose your hearts out

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03-30-2012, 06:21 AM
  #363
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Reimer and Gus should pursue acting careers, probably be a better option at this point anyway.

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03-30-2012, 06:30 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by DarwinWasAdopted View Post
Uh.... what?

Leadership is not only correlated to a team's success, it's a pretty integral part of any successful team.
You are putting way too much stock in this. Yes it's important, but it looks like people are trying to find a way to make this more Dion's fault than it is. Everyone in that room is a professional hockey player making a lot of money. They shouldn't need a Captain for them to be successful. It should be a team effort.

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03-30-2012, 06:58 AM
  #365
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Thanks for posting.

Am I the only one who felt completely bothered by Schenn's comments, especially given what transpired tonight? You're a joke Luke.
What's Luke gonna say? i scored a big contract in the offseason, didn't do any work, and now am a pylon

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03-30-2012, 07:37 AM
  #366
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I was fully in tank nation in January and the losses are great but not showing and obviously not giving a **** about your teammates, the franchise or the fans is a bad sign.

pretty sad. hopefully carlyle can have some real insight into whats going on and Burke addresses.

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03-30-2012, 08:00 AM
  #367
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I liked that tough questions were asked, but all this really shows you is that these guys aren't really capable of playing word games with the media (for better or worse).

They could have come up with some contrived reason for failure -- be it true or false -- but I'm wondering if those would have been edited in this interview, since it seemed deliberately geared to try and paint a picture of failure and a culture content with failure.

I thought the Gus question was a little heavy. Gardiner and Kessel were very frank with straight up "I don't know/there is no explanation"-style answers, Dion's answer was a bit weasely but I do think he was including himself in the "individuals" that aren't playing up to par, and I don't know if I would qualify Schenn's response as apathy so much as having no idea what to say, especially since we all know if he did apologize people would say "Sorry isn't good enough."

I mean, what are the answers you wanted to hear? "I'm sorry"? "We were mentally weak this year but with some changes to shore up weaknesses we should be a contender this year"? "I'm playing like **** and I don't know why"? "I can't score goals because my linemate is injured and I've got Tyler ****ing Bozak as a centre"? "We got burnt out playing run-and-gun, and our coach refused to change the systems, and now we're trying to learn systems with a new coach and we kind of suck at it right now so we have no offense/transition game"? "We just aren't very good"?

Good questions, but I'd have liked to have heard from some different people, as mentioned. Guys who haven't been living up to par for most of the season, instead of guys who were good before the collapse (and, ostensibly, whose drop-off may be the reason for the collapse). Seems like he picked people he identified as potentially vulnerable (did he pick a single player who we've seen show microphone personality?) to try and get a headline or dumb quote.


Last edited by Espher: 03-30-2012 at 08:05 AM.
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03-30-2012, 08:21 AM
  #368
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Franson was a +1 and I really liked his post game quote
I hope Carlyle gives him a chance cause I think he can be a good player for this team

He's competitive and speaks his mind which seems to get him in trouble but I hope Carlyle can figure out how to work with that

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03-30-2012, 08:57 AM
  #369
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tank baby tank!!!!!


lets go blue jays.we may have a real team in t.o the year!!!!!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/embed/RH8fi9zK7UA

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03-30-2012, 09:04 AM
  #370
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Those were some good questions, hopefully we get more of these in the year end presser for Burke.

I get a feeling a lot of these guys are not intelligent enough to answer non-cliche questions, that's why when we hear from Burke at the year end presser. Those will be some interesting answers.

He'll if I was a reporter I'd ask Luke why it's the same **** every year, and how he struggled after receiving his big payout.

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03-30-2012, 09:04 AM
  #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakes View Post
You are putting way too much stock in this. Yes it's important, but it looks like people are trying to find a way to make this more Dion's fault than it is. Everyone in that room is a professional hockey player making a lot of money. They shouldn't need a Captain for them to be successful. It should be a team effort.
Boom. People need to ditch the torch-and-pitchfork mentality with regards to Phaneuf. It's just silly.

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I get a feeling a lot of these guys are not intelligent enough to answer non-cliche questions
That's ridiculous. They're not "not intelligent enough," they're specifically trained by PR to act and answer a specific way. Intelligence has nothing to do with it.

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03-30-2012, 09:14 AM
  #372
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That's ridiculous. They're not "not intelligent enough," they're specifically trained by PR to act and answer a specific way. Intelligence has nothing to do with it.
When I see Phaneuf do an interview often times it takes him 7 seconds to think of the answer to the question. Its like he's one of those 80's computers trying to calculate something.

Every guy goes "I dunno", and I'm sure PR gives them a mandate to avoid those questions but when I heard Schenn's explanation I thought that he didn't know how to answer a question that isn't on the list of predictable questions.

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03-30-2012, 09:30 AM
  #373
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When I see Phaneuf do an interview often times it takes him 7 seconds to think of the answer to the question. Its like he's one of those 80's computers trying to calculate something.

Every guy goes "I dunno", and I'm sure PR gives them a mandate to avoid those questions but when I heard Schenn's explanation I thought that he didn't know how to answer a question that isn't on the list of predictable questions.
Well, it is Phaneuf

As for Schenn, that's not surprising. He's primed to respond to a question in certain ways. Obviously, that one didn't fit the archetype, so he wasn't sure how to treat it. I feel bad for these guys. They're trying to be accommodating to an antagonistic media who's barbs are only thinly veiled at best.

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03-30-2012, 09:32 AM
  #374
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Kessel actually gave a good answer.

"We gotta win some games, boys!"

Where was this kessel all season? We need a vocal leader.

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03-30-2012, 09:38 AM
  #375
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Originally Posted by Joseppi View Post
Hockey teams make their money through merchandise, ticket sales, concession sales, and TV deals. What do these things all have in common? The money comes from the fans. The fans are the ones that pay the bills. Plain and simple. They pay for a product, and if the product is sub-par, they have full right to complain.

If I'm the manager of an establishment, I expect all complaints to filter through me and have the blame placed on me. That's what comes with being a manger, and in this case, being a captain. You take the blame and move on, doing your best to avoid the problem in question again. You don't deflect the blame the other employees when talking to the customer.

These guys are paid big bucks to deal with the stress that comes with the job. Yes, they are human. Yes, it sucks when your job performance is being questioned. Yes, it sucks when you don't have all the answers, but goddammit they are not children. They don't need to be coddled, and at this point, they certainly don't deserve it.

I'll agree that the question to Gustavsson was out of place, but the others were legitimate questions and deserve an answer.
Exactly, where exactly do the people saying they shouldn't care what the fans think or feel think they get their paychecks from?

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