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Will it take 1 or 2(or 3) years to rebuild?

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Old
03-30-2012, 02:49 PM
  #76
uiCk
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post

That could very well be the case. If things go right and Markov actually returns to form we could come back to the playoffs and that's great. But let's not make any short term moves to get us there. Take next year to evaluate talent. It's supposed to be a deep draft anyway... let's show some patience with our youngters for once. No more quick fixes to 8th. If we're not doing well, then deal vets away. Don't deal for vets so we can get to the playoffs.
I don't like short term fixes either, unless it necessary; like injuries for example, or have good feeling you are cup contenders and need a boost prior to deadline.
But i expect the habs to do moves like trying to get Sutter to sign here. Or sign a top 6 winger, ala cole, if our cap lets us. Priority is signing Price and PK and making them feel like they are the core and winning is possible; which will be the best route for their further development.
And hopefully trade for winger. i would mimic what Pit did and try and fetch for A James Neal type of trade. I'm not going into who we should get for whom, because frankly i have no clue, but i hope they are trying, because i don't want this team to be carried by two 30 goal scores, one which might not reach it next year. At same time, i would not give away PK to get that and don't really need a top line winger, but more 2nd line winger, 20-25 goalscorer (AK )

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Old
03-30-2012, 02:50 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Halakalakaboom View Post
Markov ok if he's not injured, wanna take a bet ?

Gionta isn't the speedy Gio he once was, he's on a decline and will be back from an important injury.

Eller is a good 3rd line center. Unless he proves to be a 2nd line center. Still has a lot of potential.

Those three players are part of my analysis, just too many question marks. Habs will still be bad next season. They'll improve on the farm and then in the 2013-2014 season we'll see the team making the playoffs and contend for the cup, hopefully.

Also, I don't see how ANY GM could attract a few UFAS here with the way the team has been playing. UFAS want to sign on winning teams that can be contenders for a Stanley Cup.
Gionta score 28 and 29 goals the last 2 years. even if he drops off to 23-24 that's pretty good for 2nd line and it would help Plekanec a lot more than White/Darche/Moen.

So Eller is a good #3, you completely left him off the "bottom 6" discussion. He scored 16 goals in his 2nd year playing #3 center...damn good "bottom 6" forward.

Most NHL players have question marks, that's why they play the games.

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Old
03-30-2012, 02:51 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
So Parise and Suter are the big Free Agents this summer. Anyone know what the FA pool looks like in 2013?
Still a long way to go but there will be solid players in 2013

http://www.capgeek.com/free_agents.p...1&fa_type_id=2

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03-30-2012, 02:52 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Halakalakaboom View Post
Really ?? Remove your rose colored glasses please. Compare the Habs lineup to, for example, the Flyers, wich are, btw, very very YOUNG.

Or compare the Habs to the NY Rangers. Give me a break they're far from being able to compete with the best of the eastern conference.

The only youngsters worth something right now are Subban and Price, maybe Eller. Nope, Leblanc / Palushaj / Geoffrion / White still need to prove they belong to the NHL.
I don't think someone who passes by Pacioretty is even worth replying too. I will take off my "rose colour glasses" if you watch a few games.

We are one decent winger away from having a very solid top 2 lines. Decent coaching and special teams improvement and we are well on our way.

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Old
03-30-2012, 02:54 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
It's a sure recipe to burn them out and have them injured. If anything guys like Markov and Gorges need to be protected against too much ice time to avoid getting worn down(Gorges is no physical specimen and Markov's recent injury history)

Yes they are, those are guys you can't play against top 2 lines. Peckham was a helthy scratch for 2 weeks on the 29th place team in the NHL and Carkner only plays 1 of 3 games for Ottawa.
Peckham was hurt and on injured reserve. The press kept saying he was a healthy scratch but he was on the injured list and thier coach even said he was on IR. Gotta get your fact right dude not just spit up a google search.

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Old
03-30-2012, 02:57 PM
  #81
uiCk
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Still a long way to go but there will be solid players in 2013

http://www.capgeek.com/free_agents.p...1&fa_type_id=2
lol that list is nuts. too bad 95% will not be available then.

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Old
03-30-2012, 03:00 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
So Parise and Suter are the big Free Agents this summer. Anyone know what the FA pool looks like in 2013?
Crosby !

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Old
03-30-2012, 03:01 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Gionta score 28 and 29 goals the last 2 years. even if he drops off to 23-24 that's pretty good for 2nd line and it would help Plekanec a lot more than White/Darche/Moen.

So Eller is a good #3, you completely left him off the "bottom 6" discussion. He scored 16 goals in his 2nd year playing #3 center...damn good "bottom 6" forward.

Most NHL players have question marks, that's why they play the games.
I mostly agree, but, Eller being a good 3rd line center dosen't remove the fact that, imo, we have a weak bottom 6.

Moen - Eller - Leblanc ? Palushaj ? Blunden ? Geoffrion ?
Staubitz - White - one of the above players

Those two lines needs to be able to eat minutes not getting scored on and score from time to time. I think Moen - Eller - Bourque would be good, and signing a UFA winger could solve it but I doubt it will happen.

Max Pac - DD - Cole
Bourque ? - Plek - Gio ?

Top six looks good enough, but one of these players will get injured, it always happen.

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Old
03-30-2012, 03:06 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
I don't think someone who passes by Pacioretty is even worth replying too. I will take off my "rose colour glasses" if you watch a few games.

We are one decent winger away from having a very solid top 2 lines. Decent coaching and special teams improvement and we are well on our way.
I'm not talking about 'being able to barely make the playoffs', I'm talking about rebuilding a CONTENDER for the STANLEY CUP.

There's a ****ing big difference. If you'd remove the rose colored glasses, nope, we're not 1 coach - 1 top 6 winger away from a ****ing STANLEY CUP.

Proof : We overachieved with JM as coach and we had Andrei Kostytsin.

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Old
03-30-2012, 03:27 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
And it took about 3 seasons for these 2006-07 Flyers to rebound in full...
Actually, they made the playoffs on 95 points and made the ECF the very next year, eliminating the conference-leading Habs along the way as you may recall.

I don't think that was a very typical result but, again, the Habs are in nowhere near as deep of a hole.

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Old
03-30-2012, 03:48 PM
  #86
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If done perfectly, it should only take one year. Realistically this team can be competitive next year. But, as we know, things are unpredictable in the world of hockey so I'm giving a 2 year time frame. Next year is a grace year for me. After that, i'll start my *****ing. There is too much young talent and upcoming talent on this team to still be garbage in two years.

Regarding "dead assests" agree with the gomez thing, but not the others.

It's too early to trade Bourque, but if he does start to heat up, dish him. I'm sick of seeing this franchise sell players at their lowest value. Bourque is a cyclical player. Even if he comes out flying next year, he will be garbage again eventually. It's just the type of person he is.

Kaberle: I don't think we are going to have to trade him for a loss. Spacek wasn't very valuable so it won't be hard to get more than he was worth. So take the same approach as I mentioned with Bourque. Wait until he hits a hot streak and dump him for a 3rd or 4th pick. I don't think Spacek could have gotten more than a 4th, but Kaberle might if things go well for him.

For UFA's, I don't get my hopes up here at all. This team doesn't seem to do that well in the fa market so it's best to play it safe here. Get a 2/3 line winger who shows up consistently, plays with character and puts up some modest point totals (40-50) points.
Then, just get a dman who isn't weak and injury prone who will show up every night and is solid in his own zone. Basically a number 4 dman.
I don't like the idea of going all in on UFA's. It's too risky. Just get some low risk character guys and develop the stars from within the system. We have the picks to do that over the next few years.

So that about sums it up. Lets take next year to straighten things out. If we have a good year then that's great. If not, that's okay too, as long as it's obvious the team is going in the right direction.

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Old
03-30-2012, 04:00 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Halakalakaboom View Post
I'm not talking about 'being able to barely make the playoffs', I'm talking about rebuilding a CONTENDER for the STANLEY CUP.

There's a ****ing big difference. If you'd remove the rose colored glasses, nope, we're not 1 coach - 1 top 6 winger away from a ****ing STANLEY CUP.

Proof : We overachieved with JM as coach and we had Andrei Kostytsin.
2 Years ago we went to the conference finals. Last year we pushed the Stanley Cup Champions to seven games. We have a good team, and a good core. Our problem has never been a lack of talent. It's there. Our problem has been a lack of depth to overcome injuries. When our top players get hurt, we have nobody who can come in and produce at a top 6 level. We have nobody to quarterback our powerplay without Markov.

Someone like Travis Moen has no business being in a top 6. Subban is a star, but he's either not ready, or not cut out to quarterback the PP. You can't expect to be a competitive team when you are leaning on Moen for offence as we were for stretches this season.

Pacioretty, Desharnais, Cole, Plekanec, and Gionta are quality top 6 forwards. Pleks gets crapped on lots, but he's still in the top 40 centres this year, and has an elite defensive game.

We are going to be a bubble team again next year no doubt. I don't have illusions. But we are a much better team than 15th in the Eastern Conference. We didn't over-achieve under martin the past 2 years, we simply under-achieved this season. We don't need to blow this team up. I like the basic look of this team. We have a couple of studs in the system in Tinordi and Beaulieu, and as long as our pick this year works than I expect to be contending for the division in 2013/14.


Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Gionta - Pleks - ???
Bourque - Eller - Leblanc
Moen - White - ???

Markov - Gorges
Subban - Emelin
??? - ???

Price



This is a good good core to build around. It's not perfect. It's not there yet, but it's a good core. We have no reason at all to blow this up and fully rebuild. None. Anyone wanting to blow that core up just wants to be a hater and piss on the Habs while they continue to lose for another few years.

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Old
03-30-2012, 04:15 PM
  #88
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I think if we draft a good player and do the right moves in the offseason, we could be back in the playoffs next year.

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03-30-2012, 04:18 PM
  #89
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Define rebuild. If it's making the playoff, then I say 1-2 years. Next year could be tricky but it's far from out of reach.

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03-30-2012, 04:25 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halakalakaboom View Post
I'm not talking about 'being able to barely make the playoffs', I'm talking about rebuilding a CONTENDER for the STANLEY CUP.

There's a ****ing big difference. If you'd remove the rose colored glasses, nope, we're not 1 coach - 1 top 6 winger away from a ****ing STANLEY CUP.

Proof : We overachieved with JM as coach and we had Andrei Kostytsin.
Over achieved with JM and your superstar Akost? I think you are missing this

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Old
03-30-2012, 04:30 PM
  #91
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Min 2 years for a decent re build depending who is brought in as GM if the wrong person is brought in it could be 5+ years.

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Old
03-30-2012, 04:58 PM
  #92
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I think it will take at least another year. Our good young prospects all seem to be at least a year away (I would prefer to see Leblanc spend another year in the AHL). Also we have a few bad contracts that we might have to keep around for another year before they become moveable.

I think the best course of action would be to be patient, fill the holes in the roster with players on one year contracts so we don't have to rush our prospects. If we are out of the playoffs again, trade these players at the deadline for picks. I think a turnaround will take more than one offseason.

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Old
03-30-2012, 05:21 PM
  #93
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1 year to be a playoff team. 2-3 years to be a contender.

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Old
03-30-2012, 05:30 PM
  #94
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This is why I hated the Kaberle deal. So frigging dumb...eats up a lot of cap that we desperately need.

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Old
03-30-2012, 06:02 PM
  #95
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We'll lets see, what have we done to improve our team?

Nothing.

Even if we did sign some free agents we would probably struggle to make the playoffs and be knocked out in the first round.

We're a mediocre team let's face it, look at our roster and then look at a competing team's roster and you'll understand why some people rather trade veterans for picks and youth players and stop doing these ridiculous quick retools and quick fixes because they are very short sighted and usually don't end up working. Sure we could do a retool and sign a few ufa's and that would probably put us into the playoffs again, but we will become a team that has to fight for eighth.

If we rebuild and rebuild properly I believe we could be in the playoffs in 1-2 years. With players like pacioretty, eller, Desharnais, subban, price and prospects like gallagher, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Bournival and Kristo we could build a very good team with the addition of a couple high draft picks.

If we do this rebuild i believe tomas plekanec and erik cole should be packaged for a very good player like huberdeau. The reason i say this for cole as much as i like him he is 33 years old and by the time we start competing for a cup he will be close to retirement. Tomas plekanec has a lot of value to a team looking to add depth.

In my opinion, it would take us less time to be a top 3 team in the nhl by rebuilding rather than retools and patchwork.

And for those who use edmonton as an example of how rebuilds fail, the oilers had completely nothing when they started they're rebuild we're lucky to have a franchise goalie and future #1 dman and very good 2nd line players that we can use to hasten our rebuild.

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Old
03-30-2012, 06:08 PM
  #96
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There aren't many outstanding prospects already in the system, so I'd be surprised (but pleased) if it didn't take a minimum of 3 years. That's because it'll take at least that long for the combined 7 first or second round picks in 2012 and 2013 to become significant regulars. In the meantime, other teams will be loading up too. We've got to be realistic.

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03-30-2012, 06:11 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Still a long way to go but there will be solid players in 2013

http://www.capgeek.com/free_agents.p...1&fa_type_id=2
The Habs are clearly going to sign Crosby!

In all honesty though, looking at that list most of the names on it are too old to be considered great free agents. Guys like Crosby, Perry and Getzlaf will likely get signed to new contracts before the 2012/13 season has even started.

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03-30-2012, 06:26 PM
  #98
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Crosby !
Brison for GM.

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Old
03-30-2012, 08:03 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by AllanMTL46 View Post
I think if we draft a good player and do the right moves in the offseason, we could be back in the playoffs next year.
If Markov plays 70 games and we are relatively healthy next season we're in the playoffs.

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Old
03-30-2012, 08:11 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
TB has a superstar but surrounded by a couple of aging stars and a weak supporting cast.
As opposed to us? Come on man... we have holes all over the place. And they've got a trio of strong players just like we do. The big difference is that they have better scoring and we actually have goaltending. Both clubs have things to build on for the future but aren't great in the present.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Hedman is solid but still developing. Guys like Eller Gionta Plekanec Gorges Markov Cole and DD blows away what their starts are surrounded with. Finding a top goalie is not easy, if it was the acse the Leafs wouldn't miss the playoffs every year.
I see. But a number one center is simple to find? Wasn't it you who just said that it's a lot harder to find top talent?

So why aer you listing guys like Eller and DD here? And last time I checked Martin St. Louis was a better offensive player than anyone on our team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
I don't like short term fixes either, unless it necessary; like injuries for example, or have good feeling you are cup contenders and need a boost prior to deadline.
But i expect the habs to do moves like trying to get Sutter to sign here. Or sign a top 6 winger, ala cole, if our cap lets us. Priority is signing Price and PK and making them feel like they are the core and winning is possible; which will be the best route for their further development.
Why would he come here? Seriously, why would any star player come here now if his goal is to win the cup? We've got a ton of holes... why not go somewhere to a contender instead of a team that's finished last in the East?
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
And hopefully trade for winger. i would mimic what Pit did and try and fetch for A James Neal type of trade. I'm not going into who we should get for whom, because frankly i have no clue, but i hope they are trying, because i don't want this team to be carried by two 30 goal scores, one which might not reach it next year. At same time, i would not give away PK to get that and don't really need a top line winger, but more 2nd line winger, 20-25 goalscorer (AK )
What can we give up to get a winger though? It sure as hell better not be draft picks. There's nothing for us to trade but picks and propects and that's the last thing we should be doing now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
I don't think someone who passes by Pacioretty is even worth replying too. I will take off my "rose colour glasses" if you watch a few games.

We are one decent winger away from having a very solid top 2 lines. Decent coaching and special teams improvement and we are well on our way.
We are a decent winger away from being mediocre... again.

A decent winger does absolutely nothing for us from a cup perspective. Again, your goals are out of whack here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halakalakaboom View Post
I'm not talking about 'being able to barely make the playoffs', I'm talking about rebuilding a CONTENDER for the STANLEY CUP.
For the life of me, I don't understand why people don't get the difference. They just figure we can get some 2nd line winger and be great... it doesn't work that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halakalakaboom View Post
There's a ****ing big difference. If you'd remove the rose colored glasses, nope, we're not 1 coach - 1 top 6 winger away from a ****ing STANLEY CUP.

Proof : We overachieved with JM as coach and we had Andrei Kostytsin.
JM led us nowhere as we should've missed the playoffs in his first year and we're missing them now. The club was medicore to begin with and yet some folks want us to stay that way for some reason.

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