HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Will it take 1 or 2(or 3) years to rebuild?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-01-2012, 04:44 PM
  #126
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 32,372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
1- Agreed on most of what you said here but I think you might be underrating Boyle and Hanzal here, especially Hanzal who's a damn good two-way player. Boyle ain't a slouch there either, that guy takes a crazy amount of Dzone starts for the Rangers (Out of players with at least 40 games played, more than any player that isn't on Vancouver's 4th line) and he's managed to stay afloat in possession.

2- Blunden and Staubitz aren't exactly what I'd call NHL caliber players. Palushaj is easily better than those guys. White's a good 4th liner, Conboy and Schultz could become that too, but they're not there yet. Bournival has a higher ceiling than that but he'll need time in the AHL. Agreed that Gaustad or Pahlsson would be great, especially Pahlsson, Halpern could be good there too (is he a UFA? not sure?). I also hope we resign Moen. Darche should be kept too, even if it's just as a 13th F. Getting more good players should be higher on the list of priorities than getting grit. Getting a top 6 guy to get Bourque out of the tough minutes would be a better idea than signing a third line guy. Overall agree on your idea that getting bottom 6 help is easier than getting top 6 help.

3-If by "we need a big stay at home Dman" you mean "we need a good ES D who can play secondary toughs" than I agree. I think Diaz and Emelin would make a respectable third pairing next year if we can get a top 4 D this summer.

4- Agreed on that. Kaberle can rack up the points but he's not good at ES. Gomez is as good as gone next year.
1-Right, but you could compare that to what Eller does. Look at all the top teams, their centers don't run people over or fight much(Giroux Briere Krejci Bergeron Datsyuk Zetterberg Sedin Toews Sharp Richards Malkin Crosby Kopitar etc).

2-Comparing Blunden and Staubitz to Palushaj, it depends what you are looking for. If you want somebody for your 4th line, then Staubitz and Blunden to me are much better fit in that role. Plaushaj won't make it as an NHLer on a 4th line, he doesn't hit, fight, kill penalities or specialize in faceoffs. Blunden and Staubitz are exactly the style of player we have been missing on the 4th line the last few years, to crash and bang and make sure our players are respected. Moen and White have a bit more talent and could make it as 3rd liners. I think for next yaer the best spot for Bourque is with Eller and Maybe Moen or white on the 3rd line. I hope this tough finish is a wakeup call for him, because he's proven he can bring the goals and the physical game.

3-I would like a guy like Grossman or Jackman or Allen.

4-I think Kaberle would be fine as a 2nd pair guy if he had a strong stay at home guy with him. Problem here is he's been with Campoli a lot, too similar.


Last edited by Monctonscout: 04-01-2012 at 04:50 PM.
Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 04:45 PM
  #127
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
I wouldn't call Pouliot crap. He's hugely inconsistant and he needs soft minutes to produce (wich is exactly what he got here when he was producing last year and what he's getting this year) but he tends to score at a respectable ES rate in those soft minutes. I didn't like his tendency to become a complete liability on the ice when he wasn't on (instead of just becoming invisible or something) but the guy can put up points on a soft minutes offensive 3rd/4th line. Not like DD got that much assists once Pouliot disapeared, that's pretty normal, just like Plek isn't getting magical assists for being good.

Pouliot was our 4th leading ES point getter last year (it was on butter soft minutes so I don't think it's as overall valuable as a guy who gets a couple of point less with defensive duties but still). He also lead the team in ES pts per minute of icetime.
I wouldn't call Pouillot anything special.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 04:50 PM
  #128
MM425
Registered User
 
MM425's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,632
vCash: 500
Progression of young core players

+

Some schrewd off-season moves by the new GM (namely, turning Gomez's salary into productive NHL talent)

+

Healthy Gionta and Markov *knock on wood*

= No reason why playoffs should not be the expectation next season.

MM425 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 04:53 PM
  #129
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 32,372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
And who were their linemates?...could you include that too?...and a breakdown of their points with each line? Also, why didn't you include icetime? Is it cuz Eller got more?

Get back to me on that.

K thnx
I'm sure DD had better linemates than Eller this year. With Gionta out, AK traded, Cammy traded Moen and darche injured Eller has played with 4th liners or AHLers mostly the last 2 months.

If you want to spew stats, check them youtself.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 04:55 PM
  #130
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 32,372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I wouldn't call Pouillot anything special.
You can get guys like Pouliot on the UFA market every year, last minute bargain basement players on their 3rd or 4th chance.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 05:18 PM
  #131
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,106
vCash: 500
We could probably be a bubble playoff team next year with a slight improvement to our current roster. But most of us have higher expectations. We want to be a true contender, which means focusing two or three years down the road, not just next year, and making sure each move complements a future that includes our upcoming prospects and high draft pick. The team should be as strong and talented as possible by the time Beaulieu, Tinordi and our upcoming pick join the roster.

- Lock up our long-term foundation of Price, Subban, Emelin, Pacioretty, Eller and DD.

- Free up cap space!! Dump Gomez's salary. Bourque and Kaberle are cap weights, but both can contribute next year. If they do, wait for next February's trade deadline and dangle them. They're not part of our future, but they can be part of some other team's playoff run. We need cap space for our core players and future FAs.

- Hold off on this year's FA signings! We don't need another expensive 30-year old right now. Save the money for 2013/14, when our developing team could use some solid veterans. We got very, very lucky with Cole -- it would be great if he's still effective in two years, but let's not push our luck and our budget any further. I'll be okay with a bargain purchase, but I hope to god we show restraint.

- To trade or not to trade. I'm not a fan of trading key guys like Plekanec or Cole, but nothing is off the table if the price is right. I would NOT trade these very important players for picks, unless it's a high first-round. Which is very unlikely. Lower picks - even first-rounders - are crapshoots. So the right price would have to be both of these guys for a younger star. Anything less would see us lose more than we gain. Pleks in particular can remain effective for years -- in four years he'll be as old as Cole is now. Our track record with trades isn't great and I see no reason why Plekanec can't be a big part of this future Habs team.

Lshap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 06:01 PM
  #132
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 25,535
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
We could probably be a bubble playoff team next year with a slight improvement to our current roster. But most of us have higher expectations. We want to be a true contender, which means focusing two or three years down the road, not just next year, and making sure each move complements a future that includes our upcoming prospects and high draft pick. The team should be as strong and talented as possible by the time Beaulieu, Tinordi and our upcoming pick join the roster.

- Lock up our long-term foundation of Price, Subban, Emelin, Pacioretty, Eller and DD.

- Free up cap space!! Dump Gomez's salary. Bourque and Kaberle are cap weights, but both can contribute next year. If they do, wait for next February's trade deadline and dangle them. They're not part of our future, but they can be part of some other team's playoff run. We need cap space for our core players and future FAs.

- Hold off on this year's FA signings! We don't need another expensive 30-year old right now. Save the money for 2013/14, when our developing team could use some solid veterans. We got very, very lucky with Cole -- it would be great if he's still effective in two years, but let's not push our luck and our budget any further. I'll be okay with a bargain purchase, but I hope to god we show restraint.

- To trade or not to trade. I'm not a fan of trading key guys like Plekanec or Cole, but nothing is off the table if the price is right. I would NOT trade these very important players for picks, unless it's a high first-round. Which is very unlikely. Lower picks - even first-rounders - are crapshoots. So the right price would have to be both of these guys for a younger star. Anything less would see us lose more than we gain. Pleks in particular can remain effective for years -- in four years he'll be as old as Cole is now. Our track record with trades isn't great and I see no reason why Plekanec can't be a big part of this future Habs team.
I agree with most of this. I'm more inclined to trade vets than you are but I agree with the overall philosophy of being more patient. People who argue that we have to make the playoffs next year or it's the end of the world are completely out to lunch. We need long term planning if we want to win a cup.

I am really split on dealing Cole. I think his trade value will never be higher, he's old and we could probably get a fair bit for him to build with. That said, if you want to change the culture of the team, he's perfect. He's the vet you want your kids learning from. Absolutely love the way he handles himself and pays the price to win.

That stuff DOES matter. And if you want to change your culture we're going to need somebody like that anyway so I won't be upset if we hang onto this guy next year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
You think trading Markov will propel the Habs forward? And you think the quantity and quality "our younger players" is sufficient? It seems unlikely that you looked at the rosters of other teams. Final grade of your suggested solution: D minus, and I'm being charitable.
I don't think our roster is sufficient to make the playoffs next year as it is constucted. But... I don't care. I care about developing the younger players on our team. Markov is damaged goods. He's not taking us anywhere and if we can get a good return form him (or Cole) then I think we should make a move. Won't surprise me in the least if Markov only plays half the year or less next season. We just can't count on him anymore and I think trading him is a good idea.

Then again I suggested dealing Markov years back after his first injury and everyone freaked out back then when it was suggested that we go after JVRD and Giroux so... I guess that trade would warrant a D- from you too right?


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 04-01-2012 at 06:07 PM.
Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 06:04 PM
  #133
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,328
vCash: 500
Becoming a consistent contender is going take multiple years.

The next step is to get back to where the team was the last few years which a is a consistent playoff team. It shouldn't take many adjustments to get back to that point and that can be done as early as next year.

Even with the the way the roster shapes out right now, the team should be better than they are, so even with no adjustments, the team will be better, but there are adjustments to be made.

Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:33 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.