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'96 for 2012 ohl draft prospects (Part 3)

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Old
04-01-2012, 10:39 AM
  #101
Tigers1992
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Originally Posted by bravo papa View Post
You're right - it's Cornel to the Petes. Not McCann. My source is obviously totally unreliable. In case my sarcasm wasn't thick enough, we'll see in 6 days.

Credible on here was the key concept. Don't disallusion yourself with a bunch of men who sit around and write blogs all day.

The arrogance of Tigers1992 is actually funny in a complete loser sort of way, but then again, he's the one that has spent the last 8 years watching 15 year old boys.

Well, I'm off to go fight those GTA fires - all the best!
Well, arrogance isn't something that has been used to desribe me. expecially when I say things like this

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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
Haha. No need to apologize my friend. I have my sources and you have yours. One of us will be right April 7th.
Good luck April 7th. One of us will be right and one of us will be wrong.

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04-01-2012, 10:49 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
Well, arrogance isn't something that has been used to desribe me. expecially when I say things like this



Good luck April 7th. One of us will be right and one of us will be wrong.
Thanks for your input, much appreciated. Sad when someone's opinion gets classified as "Arrogant". Hope it does not hold you back with your comments and projections this coming week, should prove interesting.

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04-01-2012, 10:49 AM
  #103
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Had a reliable source confirm with me this morning that Cornel is going to the Petes.

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04-01-2012, 10:55 AM
  #104
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Normally I would not debate the merits of drafting this way and taking the comp pick but look at the Soo:

One playoff appearance in the last four years.

2012/13 becomes another year of bottoming out most likely.

2013/14 they draft their pick plus a comp which really makes it the start of a rebuild.

2014/15 starts to show the benefits of of drafting someone who does not report this year.

2015/16 they should start to show dominance.

2016/17 they should be contenders.

How many fans are willing to put up with this? The Soo would start to look like Kingston had the last however many years. The Soo basically bottomed out two seasons ago and are looking like they could do it again this season if something doesn't change quickly. I don't think they can afford not having a high end first rounder who does not report.

Peterborough was a better team then what the standings showed but the injuries they went through had a major effect. They should be much better this season just icing a healthy lineup and could make use of the extra picks to improvve right away and still have the comp pick as a bonus next year.

As for Rychel liking the idea of the Soo drafting someone who will not report, I agree, he couldn't ask for a better scenario, get a McCann or someone similar with his pick then deal for Ho Sang as well. If the draft goes the way some are speculating for Windsor already he will think Christmas came eight months early if the Soo took Ho Sang.

I cou;d see it now:

Windsor drafts McCann in the first, if speculation works out, Schmaltz later (and his brother comes with him, don't know the likelihood of this happening though), draft another solid kid somewhere in the second or third then have Ho Sang available in a deal as well. Likely throw in a high end import pick in June as well and he has one of the best drafts he has had since they took over the team.
If Dubas takes Ho Sang and then has to deal him to Windsor because he wont report, then Dubas should trade Ho Sang for solid picks, and in turn force Rychel to trade his first pick- McCann or ? for draft picks. This way, Soo will get a star, and some better future draft picks.

If Rychel doesnt agree, than Soo keeps Ho Sang until he gets what he wants.

For the lower OHL teams to start building their programs where players want to come, they have to take a stand and show the rest of the OHL and the tricksters, that they mean business. And if it means rocking some agents and their clients, then so be it.
Because it doesnt seem like Dave Branch is doing anything to help even the playing field between the haves and the have nots.

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04-01-2012, 11:01 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
Halton Hills - Christopher Poletek, Marty Burwell, Kevin Gergely, Rourke Ferguson and Lucas Zitmanis are all names to watch. I think all have the potential to be drafted.

Burlington - Bryce Mayea is a player who I like. Big physical forward, needs to be more consistent. Jeffrey Gilligan is a nice player as well

Grey Bruce - As far as goalies go, Cameron Harron is the one to watch IMO. Young is good, but 5'7 is hard to overcome. Also watch for Riley Robertson, big defenceman, 6'4. Ben Scheel should also be a mid round pick.

Whitby - I dont think its much different then other years. Team success does not always mean success in the draft. Scouts draft for potential, what they will be in 2 years, not what they are now.
I think guys like Conor Cummins and Bobby MacIntyre will go reletively high, with Everett Clarke, Kyler Challis, Brendan Mosher, Carter Landry, Liam Grande and others will also go. Whitby could have the most players drafted this year outside of the Marlboros and Rebels.

Peterborough - See Whitby. Chad Heffernan and Boyd DiClemente will be high players, outside of that, look for Vince Dunn and perhaps Pat Young to be taken as well.
One additional question, you seem to have watched many GTHL games. Just reviewed the top 200 ranking from Scout.ca and noticed that Duchesne has gone from a mid first rounder in January and February to a ranking of 53 today. Is this really justified? I know he likely is a good example of "overexposure" and a strong case for not playing up a year but has his play in the back end of the season gone down that drastically. Of all the early propects he by far dropped more than anyone else.

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04-01-2012, 11:09 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Arsenault View Post
One additional question, you seem to have watched many GTHL games. Just reviewed the top 200 ranking from Scout.ca and noticed that Duchesne has gone from a mid first rounder in January and February to a ranking of 53 today. Is this really justified? I know he likely is a good example of "overexposure" and a strong case for not playing up a year but has his play in the back end of the season gone down that drastically. Of all the early propects he by far dropped more than anyone else.
That sounds about right. He had a poor second half. Perhaps over-exposure is an issue as well. I have him in that 50-70 range personally.

I think hes a mid second round selection.

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04-01-2012, 11:12 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by chewerjones View Post
If Dubas takes Ho Sang and then has to deal him to Windsor because he wont report, then Dubas should trade Ho Sang for solid picks, and in turn force Rychel to trade his first pick- McCann or ? for draft picks. This way, Soo will get a star, and some better future draft picks.

If Rychel doesnt agree, than Soo keeps Ho Sang until he gets what he wants.

For the lower OHL teams to start building their programs where players want to come, they have to take a stand and show the rest of the OHL and the tricksters, that they mean business. And if it means rocking some agents and their clients, then so be it.
Because it doesnt seem like Dave Branch is doing anything to help even the playing field between the haves and the have nots.
Windsor doesn't have the gold education packages available for two first rounders - so they'll take their pick and that will be it. There would be no hostage taking with the Spits involved. Sure Soo can take Ho-Sang and auction him off to the highest bidder of teams he'll report to. London probably still have the picks and packages to get it done, as would Kitchener I would assume.

Is it up to Branch to tell teams to get their organizations up to speed? Windsor scared away players in the last days of Riolo here because we were a mess. If you had a high first round level kid - would you really say "he reports to whoever drafts him"? And why would Branch try to even the playing field if it meant all but forcing kids to go the NCAA route? If players/families couldn't pick their team (by in large) in the OHL I bet a lot more would decide to go the NCAA route where they'd get to pick their situation completely and get an elite education in the process. I bet you'd also see an USNTDP program crop up pretty quickly in Canada as well - to give the elite 16-17 yr olds a place to play against other top level competition while they wait the two years to reach college age.

Branch doesn't want that, and neither should the rest of the league. It's up to individual teams to make their organizations appealing to players, families and their agents.

Windsor has two owners with extensive connections in the NHL, a top level coach, a new arena, games will be broadcast in HD next season, they're in the running to host Memorial Cup, in the last few years they put a ton of players in the NHL (10 from the first Mem Cup team have played in NHL already), they have a good set-up with schools who work with the team and players, and billet families. And all this was built in the last five years. Before that we were one of the have nots who players/agents avoided because it simply wasn't a good situation to send your 15 yr old kid into.


Last edited by Ottomatic: 04-01-2012 at 11:23 AM.
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04-01-2012, 11:14 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
That sounds about right. He had a poor second half. Perhaps over-exposure is an issue as well. I have him in that 50-70 range personally.

I think hes a mid second round selection.
I agree with a a mid second round pick at worst. Its tough to pass on a man child that just needs some proper coaching and positioning. He will get physical quickly and will be a great asset to a team that is not physical on their back end.

I think he has major upside, and if he can turn out to be a solid shut down guy, that can fight with the big boys, then he will be a steal.

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04-01-2012, 11:29 AM
  #109
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Branch doesn't want that, and neither should the rest of the league. It's up to individual teams to make their organizations appealing to players, families and their agents.
100 percent correct. Why would I send my 15 year old kid to a place where he will be billeting with 3 other players, and have to play for food out of his pocket, with no tutors payed for by the team.

The differene between the good programs and the poor ones are not that large, and it blows my mind that so many teams fail to see this. Spending a small amount will really help push them to the upper echelon of the league. We have seen places like Windsor, Owen Sound and London turn it around pretty quickly.

Its really not rocket science.

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04-01-2012, 11:42 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
100 percent correct. Why would I send my 15 year old kid to a place where he will be billeting with 3 other players, and have to play for food out of his pocket, with no tutors payed for by the team.

The differene between the good programs and the poor ones are not that large, and it blows my mind that so many teams fail to see this. Spending a small amount will really help push them to the upper echelon of the league. We have seen places like Windsor, Owen Sound and London turn it around pretty quickly.

Its really not rocket science.
I certainly agree but why is it so bad to have two or three players living with the same billet? If I was a player that would be something that I may enjoy if I was good friends with the one or two other teammates.

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04-01-2012, 11:51 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Arsenault View Post
One additional question, you seem to have watched many GTHL games. Just reviewed the top 200 ranking from Scout.ca and noticed that Duchesne has gone from a mid first rounder in January and February to a ranking of 53 today. Is this really justified? I know he likely is a good example of "overexposure" and a strong case for not playing up a year but has his play in the back end of the season gone down that drastically. Of all the early propects he by far dropped more than anyone else.
Where are you finding those rankings? I can't seem to find them.

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04-01-2012, 11:59 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by ExtremeHockeyFan View Post
Where are you finding those rankings? I can't seem to find them.
Scout.ca, but of your do not subcribe to to netwrok 54

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04-01-2012, 12:27 PM
  #113
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I certainly agree but why is it so bad to have two or three players living with the same billet? If I was a player that would be something that I may enjoy if I was good friends with the one or two other teammates.
Two players at one billet is common, but 3-4 is pushing it. Sure the player might think it's enjoyable, but it's supposed to be a family atmosphere with rules and regulations not like going away to college with dorm life. Not to mention how many folks would have houses big enough to take in 3-4 16 yr old boys comfortably and control 3-4 16/17 yr olds with their moods and their teenaged dramas - billets are there as mentors, as parent-figures.

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04-01-2012, 12:29 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Arsenault View Post
One additional question, you seem to have watched many GTHL games. Just reviewed the top 200 ranking from Scout.ca and noticed that Duchesne has gone from a mid first rounder in January and February to a ranking of 53 today. Is this really justified? I know he likely is a good example of "overexposure" and a strong case for not playing up a year but has his play in the back end of the season gone down that drastically. Of all the early propects he by far dropped more than anyone else.
Another mock draft i saw has Duchense around the 30th pick. Duchesne reminds me of Luke Schenn but with better skating. He provides very little offense at this point. I viewed him quite a bit and he seemed to lack passion at times. Hosang, Hiddink, and Duchesne may be victims of over exposure and being over scouted. All to some degree have dropped in player value from last year. Duchesne can heavily impact a game with his physical play. I think he is going to be a great shut down Dman in the OHL and can impact a team next year. The OHL will suit this kids hockey temper which i enjoy watching.

Robert Byckowski has also dropped alot. A 3 round drop or more. Someone mentioned him as being a 5th rounder or later? I really like this player. He has been mentioned by some of the top GTHL players as being one of the toughest guys to play against. He always impressed me.

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04-01-2012, 12:33 PM
  #115
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chewer

It's not that I disagree with your thoughts, the reality of the situation is what will have a determining factor.

Forcing the kids to report or go elsewhere is fine if they have no where else to go but the problem is they have other places to go like others have said. If all things were equal betyween the teams then you can justify forcing kids to report to whomever drafts them but that is not the case and the onus falls on the teams to clean up their act if they want a level playing field. Playing in the same league does not make things equal. It all starts with running the organization, you need to build from the office out when you have a team and unfortunately some of these owners still think it is about nothing more than letting some kids play hockey while the owners get to make a buck from it.

What it was 30 years ago and what it is today are two completely different worlds. 30 years ago it was about the kids playing hockey and not much more, today it is about a lot more than hockey it is about the future, multi million dollar contracts for the kids that can succeed and when you are playing with that kind of potential money in the future for the kids it is an investment instead of just a sport.

As for this scenario, Dubas trying to force Rychel to deal back his first rounder because he won't report is not likely going to happen. Dubas trying to play hardball with Rychel will not go over well with the Soo fans, especially if they could have drafted the same player themselves in the first place.

Second if they were to draft a player that Rychel was expecting to get and Rychel doesn't bite then they can auction his rights off if they wish but the return likely becomes lower than what they were hoping to get if Windsor, or some other team was their intended target.

Third even if they do get a solid return from another team they are even more likely to not have a first round player from this draft. If the Soo bottomed out this year after having a few solid seasons it would make sense for them to do this but they have 4 straight years with not a whole lot to show for it and a fanbase that is likely getting very impatient. They need a solid year this season, not a gamble on a big return that helps them 2 or 3 seasons down the road.

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04-01-2012, 12:42 PM
  #116
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The term "reliable source" is very very subjective.


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04-01-2012, 02:07 PM
  #117
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Many mock drafts lately have the bulls picking Brett Hargrave at 10. Can someone give me a scouting report on him, and is he worthy of a top 10 pick? Will he fit in with the bulls program with his skating and style?

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04-01-2012, 02:10 PM
  #118
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Anyone have any insight on what the bulls are going for at the draft?

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04-01-2012, 02:45 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by cfaub View Post
chewer

It's not that I disagree with your thoughts, the reality of the situation is what will have a determining factor.

Forcing the kids to report or go elsewhere is fine if they have no where else to go but the problem is they have other places to go like others have said. If all things were equal betyween the teams then you can justify forcing kids to report to whomever drafts them but that is not the case and the onus falls on the teams to clean up their act if they want a level playing field. Playing in the same league does not make things equal. It all starts with running the organization, you need to build from the office out when you have a team and unfortunately some of these owners still think it is about nothing more than letting some kids play hockey while the owners get to make a buck from it.

What it was 30 years ago and what it is today are two completely different worlds. 30 years ago it was about the kids playing hockey and not much more, today it is about a lot more than hockey it is about the future, multi million dollar contracts for the kids that can succeed and when you are playing with that kind of potential money in the future for the kids it is an investment instead of just a sport.

As for this scenario, Dubas trying to force Rychel to deal back his first rounder because he won't report is not likely going to happen. Dubas trying to play hardball with Rychel will not go over well with the Soo fans, especially if they could have drafted the same player themselves in the first place.

Second if they were to draft a player that Rychel was expecting to get and Rychel doesn't bite then they can auction his rights off if they wish but the return likely becomes lower than what they were hoping to get if Windsor, or some other team was their intended target.

Third even if they do get a solid return from another team they are even more likely to not have a first round player from this draft. If the Soo bottomed out this year after having a few solid seasons it would make sense for them to do this but they have 4 straight years with not a whole lot to show for it and a fanbase that is likely getting very impatient. They need a solid year this season, not a gamble on a big return that helps them 2 or 3 seasons down the road.
Then the OHL should give the next year's first rounder of the team that lures the kid away to the team that loses the prospect, instead of a compensatory pick. The team doesnt really lose much except for future 2nds or later picks.

For example, last year, Domi went to London . London lost later round draft picks, but they had 2 powerful/talented top ten drafted players in Horvat and Domi. LONDON DOESNT REALLY GET PUNISHED.

Instead, London should have to give Kingston their first rounder for this year. This way Kingston gets another first rounder, albeit not a #9 overall, but rather #22, and LOndon would not have any first rounders. THIS WAY, IT WOULD MAKE THE MORE RESOURCEFUL TEAMS LIKE KITCHENER, LONDON AND WINDSOR THINK TWICE WHEN THEY DONT HAVE A FIRST ROUNDER THE NEXT YEAR.

There would still be 20 1st round draft picks and you hope to try and level the playing field. EVERYBODY WINS. THE TEAM LOSING THE NON REPORTING PLAYER; THE TEAM LURING THE NON REPORTING TEAM; AND THE OHL.

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04-01-2012, 02:55 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by ImaBullsfan View Post
Anyone have any insight on what the bulls are going for at the draft?
I would think that they would need a high end forward as priority. Goaltending is solid with Subban and dmen can handle.

With some OAs leaving on the front end, they will need someone to help out wit Gaunce, and Cramarosssa, et all...... Gaunce cant carry the team by himself, and he himself needs players to set up him.

I would recommend a high end goal scorer such as Watson, or Salituro, or preferably if Bennett is still available.

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04-01-2012, 03:20 PM
  #121
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A very reliable source has confirmed that the draft will indeed take place on April 7th.

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04-01-2012, 03:39 PM
  #122
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A very reliable source has confirmed that the draft will indeed take place on April 7th.
Best post of this thread. Well done, sir.

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04-01-2012, 03:44 PM
  #123
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A very reliable source has confirmed that the draft will indeed take place on April 7th.
We have two reliable sources that indicate otherwise.

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04-01-2012, 04:26 PM
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Mention teams and ill be happy to comment. I think if you look at my history of posts every year, im not shy to talk about any team
So, about those Thunder Bay Kings players? any show up as possible draftees on the Central scouting list?

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04-01-2012, 05:01 PM
  #125
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Can someone give me a realistic view of what it is like to play in Erie? Lots of rumours but would like an honest opinion from some of you more seasoned OHL observers.Thank you.

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