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All Purpose Prospect/St. John's Thread - Part 2

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04-25-2012, 08:48 PM
  #426
Aerial
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Does it really matter what his contract is? I thought because of years since he was drafted and games played that he had no waiver exemption left no matter what.

I was under the impression that RFA/UFA status and 1 way/2way contract status didn't factor in.

http://www.capgeek.com/waiver_calcul...008&Calculate=
For re-entry waivers, as in going back up to the NHL. If you make X amount of dollars or more in the AHL, you're subject to re-entry waivers. Guys on two-way contracts basically never do, guys on one-way contracts always will.

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04-25-2012, 08:59 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Aerial View Post
For re-entry waivers, as in going back up to the NHL. If you make X amount of dollars or more in the AHL, you're subject to re-entry waivers. Guys on two-way contracts basically never do, guys on one-way contracts always will.
Really? I've never heard of money being a factor. I've always been under the impression that it was games played and years since you were drafted.

As it says on this page:

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/20...ide-to-the-nhl

The only 4 Exemptions are:

1) The Player Has Recently Been Exposed to Waivers
2) Emergency Recall
3) Conditioning Assignments
4) Exempt Due to Experience

Quote from the page:

"Edited to add: Karina pointed out that I didn't touch on how 2-way contracts affect waivers. Simply put, they don't. A 1-way or 2-way contract has no bearing on a player's waiver status, it dictates how much a player gets paid if they play in the AHL. I blame EA Sports for this misconception, because that's pretty much the only way they determine waivers in their game. (Hey EA, maybe instead of making sure that each person in the crowd has individual animations, you should focus on keeping your rosters as accurate as possible and making sure the salary cap actually works correctly.)"

Also from the article

"The first day of the season which players are subject to waivers is twelve days prior to the start of the regular season, until the last day after the end of the team's season."

So, after 12 days before the start of the regular season, if Kulda is not making the Jets, he would have to clear waivers.



Some of you might be thinking, big deal, it's only Kulda. I just like this kind of hockey operations stuff. (And I also think Kulda would be a pretty good bottom pairing guy )

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04-25-2012, 09:01 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Hammer Slammer View Post
Nice win, now take the series on Friday!
That would be great. It would be huge for Scheifele's development if he could be part of a playoff run.

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04-25-2012, 09:11 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Really? I've never heard of money being a factor. I've always been under the impression that it was games played and years since you were drafted.
Yup, AHL salary is a relevant factor for re-entry waivers if certain other conditions are met -- essentially though, if someone is waiver-eligible and earns over X dollar amount in the minors, they are subject to re-entry waivers, with a bunch of exceptions.

Here's a short article on re-entry waivers that quotes the relevant section of the CBA that cites the salary threshhold for re-entry waivers:

http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/10/1...-entry-waivers

ETA: Old HF thread that also explains how salary and re-entry waivers relate:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=290878


Last edited by Aerial: 04-25-2012 at 09:28 PM.
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04-25-2012, 09:42 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Aerial View Post
Yup, AHL salary is a relevant factor for re-entry waivers if certain other conditions are met -- essentially though, if someone is waiver-eligible and earns over X dollar amount in the minors, they are subject to re-entry waivers, with a bunch of exceptions.

Here's a short article on re-entry waivers that quotes the relevant section of the CBA that cites the salary threshhold for re-entry waivers:

http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/10/1...-entry-waivers
But if someone is waiver eligible (has no exemption left), why does it matter how much they make? Aren't they by the very definition of waiver eligible subject to waivers and re-entry waivers?

You are talking about point (iii) in the article right? Because point (i) is just saying that if the player is waiver exempt he can be sent down (duh, right), and (ii) is just saying that if a player is not waiver exempt that he has to go through waivers to go down, and re-entry to come up.

(iii) (if I'm reading it right) is saying that someone making more than 105k in the AHL is subject to re-entry waivers. I would question how often that clause is exercised as what NHL team would sign a player to an AHL contract greater than 105k in the 1st few years of a prospects ELC / waiver exemption period? Either you are exempt from waivers because you are still on your ELC, or you have to go through waivers because you've used up your years. What would take precedence if a team gave a player in their ELC time period (and supposibly waiver exempt) an AHL contract greater than 105K? Which rule would apply?

But, that whole shaded section is started with the assumption that it covered players with 1 way contracts, or guys with 2 way contracts with a minor league contract of greater than 105k. Kulda falls in neither of those categories.

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04-25-2012, 10:17 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
But if someone is waiver eligible (has no exemption left), why does it matter how much they make? Aren't they by the very definition of waiver eligible subject to waivers and re-entry waivers?
No. Most players on two-way contracts don't need to go through re-entry waivers, since their AHL salary is less than the threshhold for re-entry waivers. (The exception is players on that "career minor leaguer" clause.) All one-way contracts are applicable for re-entry waivers.

Anyway, it wouldn't apply to Kulda because they won't obviously sign him to a one-way or to a two-way above $105k, or whatever it ends up being in the next CBA, if this version of re-entry waivers still exists. I know the players don't like this rule at all -- for NHL players on one-ways it means if you clear waivers, you're essentially banished for the season (since most teams won't risk exposing them to re-entry waivers, taking on half the salary and half the cap hit if they're claimed), and for players on two-ways trying to crack the NHL it's a de facto salary cap, since obviously they won't want to negotiate an AHL salary above the exemption mark.

I was just clarifying originally that we were discussing the salary threshhold / contract status for re-entry waiver eligibility, which is relevant.

ETA: Oh, to see how this affects contracts in action, look at Mark Flood's contract history:

http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=1288

He got a $100,000 raise this season in his AHL salary, I would assume because he graduated to the "veteran minor leaguer" category during the 2010-11 season and thus became exempt from re-entry waivers, so he and the club were willing to negotiate a higher salary.


Last edited by Aerial: 04-25-2012 at 10:53 PM.
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04-26-2012, 01:04 AM
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
But if someone is waiver eligible (has no exemption left), why does it matter how much they make? Aren't they by the very definition of waiver eligible subject to waivers and re-entry waivers?

You are talking about point (iii) in the article right? Because point (i) is just saying that if the player is waiver exempt he can be sent down (duh, right), and (ii) is just saying that if a player is not waiver exempt that he has to go through waivers to go down, and re-entry to come up.

(iii) (if I'm reading it right) is saying that someone making more than 105k in the AHL is subject to re-entry waivers. I would question how often that clause is exercised as what NHL team would sign a player to an AHL contract greater than 105k in the 1st few years of a prospects ELC / waiver exemption period? Either you are exempt from waivers because you are still on your ELC, or you have to go through waivers because you've used up your years. What would take precedence if a team gave a player in their ELC time period (and supposibly waiver exempt) an AHL contract greater than 105K? Which rule would apply?

But, that whole shaded section is started with the assumption that it covered players with 1 way contracts, or guys with 2 way contracts with a minor league contract of greater than 105k. Kulda falls in neither of those categories.
Aerial has it covered very well, but just a note, basically think of regular waivers (going down) and re-entry waivers (coming up) as COMPLETELY different issues and you will be fine. Regular waivers are going down. Re-entry are coming up. There is no "precedence" since they never overlap.

You seem to have the basics of regular waivers down. Re-entry is another beast altogether and is based on money that is made. Almost never is a two-way deal above 105K, very rare situation. So basically it's one-way deals that are subject to this. Somebody claimed off re-entry also splits the cap hit of the deal for the remainder of the deal between the claiming team and the team he is being claimed for.

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04-26-2012, 08:19 AM
  #433
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Thanks Ariel and Holden. Great conversation.

Just one final question. Ariel you said,

"Most players on two-way contracts don't need to go through re-entry waivers, since their AHL salary is less than the threshhold for re-entry waivers. (The exception is players on that "career minor leaguer" clause.) All one-way contracts are applicable for re-entry waivers."

Wouldn't a player still need to go through re-entry waivers if their AHL salary was below the 105k threshold if their waiver exemption is up?

Or, if I am understanding what you guys are saying, the waiver exempt / not exempt status (based on years since 1st contract) only applies to the process of sending the player down. Once the clears and is sent down a separate process is used to determine if he is subject to the re-entry (up) waiver process (AHL salary).

So if a team had a prospect of say 25 or 26 years old that was no longer waiver exempt, he would go through waivers when the team tries to send him to the AHL. If he clears he goes to the AHL. If the team tries to bring him up, you look at his AHL salary. If it's greater than the 105k threshold he is subject to re-entry waivers and the team that claims him is only on the hook for half of his NHL salary. If he clears and goes to his NHL team, he can stay on the NHL team for that 30 day or 10 games played time period. If he's sent down before 1 of those two criteria is achieved he doesn't have to go through waivers again. If one of the two criteria is achieved, he is subject to waivers and the process continues.

Is that correct?

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04-26-2012, 10:25 AM
  #434
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04-26-2012, 10:25 AM
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Wouldn't a player still need to go through re-entry waivers if their AHL salary was below the 105k threshold if their waiver exemption is up?
Nope. That would be a nightmare for asset management, since teams would be frequently be exposing their AHL tweeners and waiver-eligible prospects when they called them up. I can't imagine the NHLPA would like that arrangement either, since it would have the practical effect of making teams less likely to bring guys up for a look during the season.

Quote:
Or, if I am understanding what you guys are saying, the waiver exempt / not exempt status (based on years since 1st contract) only applies to the process of sending the player down. Once the clears and is sent down a separate process is used to determine if he is subject to the re-entry (up) waiver process (AHL salary).
Yep! I like what Holden said above, he explained it more clearly than I did -- think of waivers and re-entry waivers as being totally different things. I realize now that's where we were getting confused. While you're waiver-exempt, you're also re-entry waiver exempt -- but after you aren't, you MAY now qualify for both... but they are separate beasts with separate qualifications.

Yes, you nailed the example!

The term "waivers" generally means regular waivers -- the ones used to send a player from the NHL down to another league. Re-entry waivers are the reverse, and are based in large part on how much money you're making in the AHL. (Then there's the return waivers for coming back to the NHL abroad, which are also different again. WAIVER NATION.)

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04-26-2012, 10:56 AM
  #436
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Excellent! Thanks Ariel and Holden. I have a better understanding now. I knew about the years to exemption part before, but didn't realize there was a separate re-entry process which included salary consideration.

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Old
04-26-2012, 11:23 AM
  #437
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Didn't see this posted earlier, apologies if I missed it.

Free press with an article yesterday that has Cheveldayoff commenting on the Jets CH prospects.

On Schiefele:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Cheveldayoff
(Colts coach Dale Hawerchuk) was working very hard at teaching him the pro game," ... "It wasn't just all about goals and assists and racking up minutes. In Mark's case, Dale wanted to make sure he spent time teaching him the two-way pro game. The assessment from that aspect went well.
"His understanding of the game continued to grow. Those are things that are going to have to continue in order for him to keep on maturing."
On Telegin:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Cheveldayoff
"He also benefitted from the opportunity to play for Dale," Cheveldayoff said. "His second half was exceptional. Not just very good, exceptional. He took on a very large role from the offensive side of things. His best qualities are his size and speed. For a big man, he comes down on the defencemen very quickly and forces them to make difficult decisions at a quick rate."
Telegin may well be the major-junior prospect most ready for a crack at pro hockey.

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04-26-2012, 11:37 AM
  #438
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Didn't see this posted earlier, apologies if I missed it.

Free press with an article yesterday that has Cheveldayoff commenting on the Jets CH prospects.

On Schiefele:


On Telegin:
Thanks for the quotes. I've said a couple times during the year that Mark has already proven he can put the puck in the net. His best choice this season was to work hard on things that the Jets organization told him he needed to play in the NHL. Sounds like that is what Dale did.

Scheifele is going to be a star in this league.

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04-26-2012, 01:51 PM
  #439
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...game3-426.html


Video interview with Danny Williams.

Starts at 3min 20sec

Really interesting as he gives revenue and costs numbers.

Like Winnipeg, they expected to operate at a loss or break even, but, ended up with a profit.

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04-26-2012, 03:23 PM
  #440
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Looks as if it was an enjoyable night at Mile One...

http://stjohnsicecaps.com/highlights...lled-april-25/

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04-26-2012, 03:35 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Looks as if it was an enjoyable night at Mile One...

http://stjohnsicecaps.com/highlights...lled-april-25/
Kudos to Ice Cap fans and the fans at the game. Looked like it was an excellent atmosphere!

Looked like Meech made a nice move on the 2nd goal there, and I really liked the trio of hits starting around the 1:38 mark.

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04-26-2012, 09:13 PM
  #442
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Jets CHL Prospects Report for Thursday, April 26

Jets CHL Prospects Report for Thursday, April 26


Tri-City Americans 1 Portland Winterhawks 4 (FINAL)
Game 4 of the WHL Western Conference Final - Portland wins series 4-0

http://www.whl.ca/schedule/show/game/61672

Zach Yuen, TC; G-0, A-0, Plus/Minus -2, PIM-0






Tomorrow's Game
Moose Jaw Warriors (Kendall McFaull) @ Edmonton Oil Kings -- game 5 of WHL Eastern Conference Final -- Edmonton leads series 3-1
.


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04-26-2012, 09:22 PM
  #443
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Gotta say, with all the buzz about the atmosphere in St. John's, I couldn't be happier we found a home for the farm team there. Happy that our prospects will be coming up through a beautiful, friendly city with such an active fanbase.

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04-27-2012, 07:50 AM
  #444
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Those highlights were amazing.
Such a great vibe. Cannot wait to watch more.
The more i see Machacek, the more i like him.
great fight!

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04-27-2012, 04:39 PM
  #445
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IceCaps - Crunch stream for tonight: http://atdhenet.tv/46221/watch-ahl-s...john-s-icecaps

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04-27-2012, 04:51 PM
  #446
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Mark jumps from 23 to 14 on HFs top 50 prospects!

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04-27-2012, 05:16 PM
  #447
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IceCaps - Crunch stream for tonight: http://atdhenet.tv/46221/watch-ahl-s...john-s-icecaps
Link is live now, but ugh: 2-0 for Syracuse, only 5min into the game. C'mon IceCaps! Git yer act together!

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04-27-2012, 05:28 PM
  #448
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Link is live now, but ugh: 2-0 for Syracuse, only 5min into the game. C'mon IceCaps! Git yer act together!
They'll come back. I have faith.

Too bad the feed has Syracuse audio.

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04-27-2012, 05:36 PM
  #449
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nice little move by Mark there..

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04-27-2012, 05:49 PM
  #450
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They'll come back. I have faith.

Too bad the feed has Syracuse audio.
Yeah, I love the IceCaps announcers - full of energy! I have to say: the Syracuse announcers are very non-homer'ish though, and seem to have pretty good knowledge of the IceCaps roster.

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