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All Purpose Prospect/St. John's Thread - Part 2

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05-17-2012, 08:59 PM
  #926
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So that…. happened

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05-17-2012, 09:04 PM
  #927
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Ok first GDT was the curse

Really glad we sat Scheif that could have been a disaster

we have them right where we want them........over confident

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05-17-2012, 09:08 PM
  #928
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Ok first GDT was the curse

Really glad we sat Scheif that could have been a disaster

we have them right where we want them........over confident
My GDT Saturday night will be nothing but good luck! You'll see

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05-18-2012, 06:17 AM
  #929
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Pretty hilarious how your top prospect was sat again.

What is going on over there? Was Rosa (does this guy even have a future with you guys?) in there again for Scheifele?

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05-18-2012, 07:47 AM
  #930
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Pretty hilarious how your top prospect was sat again.

What is going on over there? Was Rosa (does this guy even have a future with you guys?) in there again for Scheifele?
Marco Rosa is a career AHL'er who hasn't even had a cup of coffee at the NHL level - at this point, I'm not sure what's going on out in St Johns. Winning is important, but so is prospect development - very strange decision.

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05-18-2012, 07:50 AM
  #931
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I am a bit angry Scheifele was benched again, especially when Machacek was out of the lineup due to injury.

That really sucks!

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05-18-2012, 08:00 AM
  #932
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Poor decision making IMO. There is pretty much zero reason that the kid should be sitting.

For those wondering why I care, I have a vested interest in the kid. Own him in my keeper.

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05-18-2012, 08:03 AM
  #933
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Poor decision making IMO. There is pretty much zero reason that the kid should be sitting.
Agree - I previously stated that if they sat him to try to ensure getting to the next round, I could get behind that decision. Next round is here, and he's not playing - either he's A) hurt, or more likely B) they're more interested in winning a Calder?

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05-18-2012, 08:18 AM
  #934
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rough night last night
hope they can pull the next one out

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05-18-2012, 08:41 AM
  #935
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Agree - I previously stated that if they sat him to try to ensure getting to the next round, I could get behind that decision. Next round is here, and he's not playing - either he's A) hurt, or more likely B) they're more interested in winning a Calder?
100% with you on this.......IF HE IS HURT then I am fine with this decision. I was ok when they sat him in game 7 for being loose with the puck in game 6 and they thought it could help them advance to the next round. I love winning but part of being a coach in the AHL is developing prospects especially our TOP prospect even in the playoff race.......if Scheifele isn't hurt then get your head out of you a55 and start coaching him up.


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05-18-2012, 08:49 AM
  #936
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100% with you on this.......IF HE IS HURT then I am fine with this decision. I was ok when they sat him in game 7 for being loose with the puck in game 6 and they thought it could help them advance to the next round. I am love winning but part of being a coach in the AHL is developing prospects especially our TOP prospect even in the playoff race.......if Scheifele isn't hurt then get your head out of you a55 and start coaching him up.
This all day. I'm all for not rushing prospects, but I sincerely hope True North is not trying to win the Calder to the detriment of developing the Jets prospects properly. If Schief is healthy, PUT HIM IN!

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05-18-2012, 09:30 AM
  #937
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I agree with the majority here in regards to Scheifele, but let's wait to hear a report from St. Johns to hear the story on the lineup decisions.

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05-18-2012, 09:37 AM
  #938
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I agree with the majority here in regards to Scheifele, but let's wait to hear a report from St. Johns to hear the story on the lineup decisions.
No way! This is the internet! I demand my rights to make accusatory statements like my statement above regarding not playing Scheifele.



Unfortunately, it's been pretty quiet regarding his sitting - nothing to go on, so we speculate. I'd really like to hear it from the horses mouth.

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05-18-2012, 09:42 AM
  #939
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I agree with the majority here in regards to Scheifele, but let's wait to hear a report from St. Johns to hear the story on the lineup decisions.
With the Jets out of site out of mind, the Canucks being eliminated from the playoffs, and the beautiful weather there is just so little to complain about that I am trying to manufacture some stress Huff!!

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05-18-2012, 09:54 AM
  #940
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I agree with the majority here in regards to Scheifele, but let's wait to hear a report from St. Johns to hear the story on the lineup decisions.
I"m going to continue the trend. Damn you huff and your "logic", and "rationality"!

Scheif should be playing 40 minutes a game! Power play! Penalty Kill! 1st 3rd and 4th lines! I want zingers head on a platter!

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05-18-2012, 10:00 AM
  #941
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You folks can be rational and logical all you want. My post contained the word "if" which gets me off the hook if we later find out that Scheifele is/was injured.

But seriously, if he is healthy you'll have a hard task ahead of you trying to convince me that a top 10 draft pick from a year ago can't slot in somewhere in our AHL line-up.

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05-18-2012, 11:10 AM
  #942
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I am pretty confident he has to be hurt

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05-18-2012, 11:14 AM
  #943
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Personally, if they are close to a calder cup, I have no concerns with Zinger and crew trying to win one. Ice Caps have a few AHL vets on the team, that may not have had a shot at a championship before, so trying to win and putting your best line-up out is a good organizational trait. If you are contributing enough to be in the lineup, great, if not - sit.

Scheifele has 1 assist in 7 games. Granted he plays guarded 3rd line minutes, but if he's being out-muscled or a bit overwhelmed, or hampered slightly due to injury - then he can sit.

He's 19. Still a very young player who had a very busy year of hockey. He's 2 yrs out of Jr B. This year has been a pressure packed 11 months. It's okay if he's tired mentally and/or physically, a bit nicked up, and not leading the ice caps in scoring. Playing him in a physical, difficult series against the best team in the ahl - when he's not ready, or tired, or slightly injured - may due more harm to his confidence, than
increase or encourage development.

I have full confidence that the coaching staff is considering all factors and doing what they believe is best for Scheifele's long-term development. I'm sure they've talked to Zinger, Chevy, etc and have a plan for scheif. There is a lot invested in scheifele, so they are taking it step-by-step. I think we need to relax and cheer the hard-working ice caps on. They have sure worked their a55es off to get this far.

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05-18-2012, 12:07 PM
  #944
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Personally, if they are close to a calder cup, I have no concerns with Zinger and crew trying to win one. Ice Caps have a few AHL vets on the team, that may not have had a shot at a championship before, so trying to win and putting your best line-up out is a good organizational trait. If you are contributing enough to be in the lineup, great, if not - sit.

Scheifele has 1 assist in 7 games. Granted he plays guarded 3rd line minutes, but if he's being out-muscled or a bit overwhelmed, or hampered slightly due to injury - then he can sit.

He's 19. Still a very young player who had a very busy year of hockey. He's 2 yrs out of Jr B. This year has been a pressure packed 11 months. It's okay if he's tired mentally and/or physically, a bit nicked up, and not leading the ice caps in scoring. Playing him in a physical, difficult series against the best team in the ahl - when he's not ready, or tired, or slightly injured - may due more harm to his confidence, than
increase or encourage development.

I have full confidence that the coaching staff is considering all factors and doing what they believe is best for Scheifele's long-term development. I'm sure they've talked to Zinger, Chevy, etc and have a plan for scheif. There is a lot invested in scheifele, so they are taking it step-by-step. I think we need to relax and cheer the hard-working ice caps on. They have sure worked their a55es off to get this far.
Agree 100% with this....really surprised guys by some of the reaction on this.

The "sole goal" at this point should be to win the Calder. We are the same group of guys that preach winning breeds winning, etc all year long. Think of the fans in St. Johns that pay, support and fill that barn every night...and we are sitting here saying the hell with the Calder? I don't get that at all. We had the AHL at one time, and what would we be saying if Van wanted us to just play this guy for development, over winning...we would be livid.

Winning and developing are not mutually exclusive and don't have to be. Sitting Mark Schiefle for an AHL series is not going to impact the Jets chances of winning the Stanley Cup some day.

Just my opinion of course, but am I really wrong here guys? That is my rant...have a great long weekend all

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05-18-2012, 12:18 PM
  #945
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Agree 100% with this....really surprised guys by some of the reaction on this.

The "sole goal" at this point should be to win the Calder. We are the same group of guys that preach winning breeds winning, etc all year long. Think of the fans in St. Johns that pay, support and fill that barn every night...and we are sitting here saying the hell with the Calder? I don't get that at all. We had the AHL at one time, and what would we be saying if Van wanted us to just play this guy for development, over winning...we would be livid.

Winning and developing are not mutually exclusive and don't have to be. Sitting Mark Schiefle for an AHL series is not going to impact the Jets chances of winning the Stanley Cup some day.

Just my opinion of course, but am I really wrong here guys? That is my rant...have a great long weekend all
I personally think it's better for your top prospect to be playing in meaningful games instead of a guy like Rosa who has no future within your organization outside of being an AHL player. (Am I wrong to assume this about Rosa?)

I mean it's not like Rosa is playing head and shoulders above Schiefele, is he?

With regards to Mark potentially being hurt, why not just come out and say that if it's the case?

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05-18-2012, 12:24 PM
  #946
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I personally think it's better for your top prospect to be playing in meaningful games instead of a guy like Rosa who has no future within your organization outside of being an AHL player. (Am I wrong to assume this about Rosa?)

I mean it's not like Rosa is playing head and shoulders above Schiefele, is he?

With regards to Mark potentially being hurt, why not just come out and say that if it's the case?
We can agree to disagree on this. I have no idea if Rosa is playing better or worse or whatever, my main point was to disagree with the notion that winning doesn't matter over playing the 19 year old.

I trust that Mcambridge that has been coaching the team all year knows what gives him the best chance...cheers

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05-18-2012, 12:27 PM
  #947
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A quick look at some other draft picks, and their first AHL playoffs during the first spring after their draft yr (a stats comparison only - does not consider strength of teams, player role, etc).

Jeff Carter (11 overall)- 12gp, 4g, 1a

Logan Couture (9 overall) - DNP 1st year, 2nd Year 12gp, 2g, 1a

Bobby Ryan (2nd overall) - 19gp, 1g, 7a

Corey Perry (28 overall) - 3gp, 1g, 1a.

Few comparisons as picks either jumped to the NHL or simply stayed with their Jr, college or european teams - perhaps their AHL didn't qualify for playoffs, too.

Next year will be very important in Scheifele's development. If he returns to Jr, TNSE would want him to round out his 2-way game further and dominate at that level. Since he's considered a scoring prospect, anything below 1.7+ pts/gm might be considered pretty disappointing. Though, Barrie will likely lose Telegin and Pearson, so that will make it that much more difficult for Scheifele to score pts.

Most CHL picks that have gone on to play in the NHL at a reasonably high level, have been there as a 20 yr old (few exceptions like henrique, etc), so I won't worry for another couple of yrs.


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Old
05-18-2012, 01:26 PM
  #948
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I fully acknowledge that this is a complicated issue with many dimensions. I guess my main point is that the ultimate goal with the IceCaps should be to develop the prospects to reach their maximum long-term potential. Winning can be a means to that end, but that's all it should be. In a perfect world, the propects develop and the team wins, but the focus has to be on the former. If management deems that it's truly in Scheifele's long-term best interest to not play these games, then I'll have to trust them.

As for the confidence argument, it can cut both ways. Which hurts Scheifele's confidence more, to play in these games and not dominate or to sit in the pressbox and essentially be told that he is not good enough to play at the farm team level? I'm not saying I know the answer but it's a valid question. It just bothers me a little when we have guys like Redmond, who was an AHL all-star this year, sitting in the pressbox because he lost his spot to a career AHLer.

Anyways, I'm not too keen on arguing this any further because it's a matter of opinion and fairly pointless. I think we all ultimately want the same thing.

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05-18-2012, 01:50 PM
  #949
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A quick look at some other draft picks, and their first AHL playoffs during the first spring after their draft yr (a stats comparison only - does not consider strength of teams, player role, etc).

Jeff Carter (11 overall)- 12gp, 4g, 1a

Logan Couture (9 overall) - DNP 1st year, 2nd Year 12gp, 2g, 1a

Bobby Ryan (2nd overall) - 19gp, 1g, 7a

Corey Perry (28 overall) - 3gp, 1g, 1a.

Few comparisons as picks either jumped to the NHL or simply stayed with their Jr, college or european teams - perhaps their AHL didn't qualify for playoffs, too.

Next year will be very important in Scheifele's development. If he returns to Jr, TNSE would want him to round out his 2-way game further and dominate at that level. Since he's considered a scoring prospect, anything below 1.7+ pts/gm might be considered pretty disappointing. Though, Barrie will likely lose Telegin and Pearson, so that will make it that much more difficult for Scheifele to score pts.

Most CHL picks that have gone on to play in the NHL at a reasonably high level, have been there as a 20 yr old (few exceptions like henrique, etc), so I won't worry for another couple of yrs.
Nice to see the stats on other players in the AHL playoffs after they were drafted. Doesn't look like there is much success there for any of those other guys.

Still, I bet that doesn't stop people from finding a way to bash Scheifele.

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05-18-2012, 01:59 PM
  #950
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I actually thought Scheifele looked pretty strong in most of his games. The usual issues regarding getting taken down too easy, but he was skating well, making a lot of beauty feeds and generally sniffing around the right side of the rink. He certainly looked like he belonged.

Why is he sitting? This is my total guess based on nothing but my own observations: It was that last game where he had a string of pretty bad turnovers. He came back with a big response shift at the end of the game which was great to see, but my *guess* is now that the games are tighter, they're turning to people with the experience playing at the pro level who may be less prone to making those types of errors.

If so, that's mostly just an experience thing, isn't really worrying to me. It's not like he has anywhere else to play right now anyway -- but I do hope they try him back in the mix in this series, because I bet if they put him back on the ice he'll come out flying.

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