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All Purpose Prospect/St. John's Thread - Part 2

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05-18-2012, 03:44 PM
  #951
ps241
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Agree 100% with this....really surprised guys by some of the reaction on this.

The "sole goal" at this point should be to win the Calder. We are the same group of guys that preach winning breeds winning, etc all year long. Think of the fans in St. Johns that pay, support and fill that barn every night...and we are sitting here saying the hell with the Calder? I don't get that at all. We had the AHL at one time, and what would we be saying if Van wanted us to just play this guy for development, over winning...we would be livid.

Winning and developing are not mutually exclusive and don't have to be. Sitting Mark Schiefle for an AHL series is not going to impact the Jets chances of winning the Stanley Cup some day.

Just my opinion of course, but am I really wrong here guys? That is my rant...have a great long weekend all
one of the reason I like HFboards so much is for good healthy debate like we are having on this topic. I never think a difference of opinion is a bad thing and I actually come here for the differences. We usually line up on most topics and it is fun to do battle at least once a year !! I understand your point on this topic and like Stej mentioned it is a complicated issue with many dimensions. In this case there probably isn’t a right and wrong answer but more likely a perceived right and wrong based on our personal priorities.

When we owned an AHL team here I always understood that the goal of the team was multifaceted and I am sure the people of St John’s know that as well. It is about finding the balance since by definition they are a farm team of the Jets. My concern (without having my tinfoil hat on too tight) is that at this point TNSE (or members of TNSE) might be so focused on winning at all costs that they don't challenge their coach to develop a couple of key prospects at the same time which is their job as well. This isn't black and white to me its grey. The Jets have two goals (I assume).........make money and win. The Ice Caps have three goals, Make money, win, and to be the key cog in the DRAFT AND DEVELOPE vision for TNSE.

My fear at this exact point in time is that although our boys mean well they are following the Chicago Wolves model more closely than the Manitoba Moose Model which is to put the best AHL players on the ice and forego development to win today. That although they want to develop Redmond and Scheifele they would rather sit them if it meant even a marginally better chance to win the Calder.

As you aptly said winning and developing aren't mutually exclusive and I would challenge my coach and ask "is the difference between Rosa and Scheifele on the 3rd line really the margin of error in this series"?? I am not sold that in the push pull of our goals that our farm club is acting in the best interests of Scheifele or the Jets right now and I love the TNSE people it’s just that I am asking are they all in on winning the Calder and forgetting about the core in their vision?

To be clear I am not asking them to sell out and not win but I would challenge them to do it "while developing" within reason. The funny thing is after the blow out last game we might see some of the guys we are discussing back in the line up anyways

Fun debate and my viewpoint is just my opinion......I am not saying I am right on the topic it’s just how I feel.

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05-18-2012, 03:49 PM
  #952
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Good points ps241 - mirrors my thinking almost exactly.

Good points on the other side too though: as stated, it's a tricky and gray area.

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05-18-2012, 03:51 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
one of the reason I like HFboards so much is for good healthy debate like we are having on this topic. I never think a difference of opinion is a bad thing and I actually come here for the differences. We usually line up on most topics and it is fun to do battle at least once a year !! I understand your point on this topic and like Stej mentioned it is a complicated issue with many dimensions. In this case there probably isnít a right and wrong answer but more likely a perceived right and wrong based on our personal priorities.

When we owned an AHL team here I always understood that the goal of the team was multifaceted and I am sure the people of St Johnís know that as well. It is about finding the balance since by definition they are a farm team of the Jets. My concern (without having my tinfoil hat on too tight) is that at this point TNSE (or members of TNSE) might be so focused on winning at all costs that they don't challenge their coach to develop a couple of key prospects at the same time which is their job as well. This isn't black and white to me its grey. The Jets have two goals (I assume).........make money and win. The Ice Caps have three goals, Make money, win, and to be the key cog in the DRAFT AND DEVELOPE vision for TNSE.

My fear at this exact point in time is that although our boys mean well they are following the Chicago Wolves model more closely than the Manitoba Moose Model which is to put the best AHL players on the ice and forego development to win today. That although they want to develop Redmond and Scheifele they would rather sit them if it meant even a marginally better chance to win the Calder.
The Moose were a lot more like the Wolves than a lot of people would like to admit. When people think of the playoff heroes of the Moose, they aren't thinking of Cody Hodgson, etc., they think of AHL players that the Moose had signed and put them into the big situations when winning was within reach.

It's unfortunate that a lot of the former Moose fans I know, who said that they pay money to see winning teams, etc., have switched their philosophies that development is primary over winning. Of course we'd like to see Scheifele develop. Sitting him is also teaching a lesson - you haven't earned a spot in the lineup. This is how pro hockey is. You play well or you sit. TNSE is not dumb, they are aware of how the AHL works to develop players. They also want to win.

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05-18-2012, 04:00 PM
  #954
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(...) Of course we'd like to see Scheifele develop. Sitting him is also teaching a lesson - you haven't earned a spot in the lineup. This is how pro hockey is. You play well or you sit. TNSE is not dumb, they are aware of how the AHL works to develop players. They also want to win.
Very good points.

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05-18-2012, 04:13 PM
  #955
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The Moose were a lot more like the Wolves than a lot of people would like to admit. When people think of the playoff heroes of the Moose, they aren't thinking of Cody Hodgson, etc., they think of AHL players that the Moose had signed and put them into the big situations when winning was within reach.

It's unfortunate that a lot of the former Moose fans I know, who said that they pay money to see winning teams, etc., have switched their philosophies that development is primary over winning. Of course we'd like to see Scheifele develop. Sitting him is also teaching a lesson - you haven't earned a spot in the lineup. This is how pro hockey is. You play well or you sit. TNSE is not dumb, they are aware of how the AHL works to develop players. They also want to win.
fair post and no easy answers..........to be fair I haven't seen enough the play to know if Mark was hurting their chances and doing damage and if that is the case then maybe he wasn't developing anyways...........or maybe his development is just a lower priority in this equation hard to know unless you are in the room I guess?

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05-18-2012, 04:16 PM
  #956
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fair post and no easy answers..........to be fair I haven't seen enough the play to know if Mark was hurting their chances and doing damage and if that is the case then maybe he wasn't developing anyways...........or maybe his development is just a lower priority in this equation hard to know unless you are in the room I guess?
He may very well be injured, which explains him sitting out. We don't know. If it turns out he's fine and he is being sat for performance, well then that's a lesson in itself. He isn't giving his team the best chance to win.

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05-18-2012, 05:01 PM
  #957
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Great post ps241. It's pretty much exactly what I was trying to say. There's really no right answer and each player is unique so it comes down to a matter of opinion.

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05-18-2012, 05:15 PM
  #958
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one of the reason I like HFboards so much is for good healthy debate like we are having on this topic. I never think a difference of opinion is a bad thing and I actually come here for the differences. We usually line up on most topics and it is fun to do battle at least once a year !! I understand your point on this topic and like Stej mentioned it is a complicated issue with many dimensions. In this case there probably isnít a right and wrong answer but more likely a perceived right and wrong based on our personal priorities.

When we owned an AHL team here I always understood that the goal of the team was multifaceted and I am sure the people of St Johnís know that as well. It is about finding the balance since by definition they are a farm team of the Jets. My concern (without having my tinfoil hat on too tight) is that at this point TNSE (or members of TNSE) might be so focused on winning at all costs that they don't challenge their coach to develop a couple of key prospects at the same time which is their job as well. This isn't black and white to me its grey. The Jets have two goals (I assume).........make money and win. The Ice Caps have three goals, Make money, win, and to be the key cog in the DRAFT AND DEVELOPE vision for TNSE.

My fear at this exact point in time is that although our boys mean well they are following the Chicago Wolves model more closely than the Manitoba Moose Model which is to put the best AHL players on the ice and forego development to win today. That although they want to develop Redmond and Scheifele they would rather sit them if it meant even a marginally better chance to win the Calder.

As you aptly said winning and developing aren't mutually exclusive and I would challenge my coach and ask "is the difference between Rosa and Scheifele on the 3rd line really the margin of error in this series"?? I am not sold that in the push pull of our goals that our farm club is acting in the best interests of Scheifele or the Jets right now and I love the TNSE people itís just that I am asking are they all in on winning the Calder and forgetting about the core in their vision?

To be clear I am not asking them to sell out and not win but I would challenge them to do it "while developing" within reason. The funny thing is after the blow out last game we might see some of the guys we are discussing back in the line up anyways

Fun debate and my viewpoint is just my opinion......I am not saying I am right on the topic itís just how I feel.
Absolutly outstanding post, agree with everything you said. The fact of the matter is Scheifele hasnt looked out place and should be playing over a guy like Rosa who isnt much of an upgrade if any. As you said the organization needs to be able to do all three. They are only accomplishing two atm. Look at the Baby sens calder run last year, they acconplished it with a good cpmbination of vets and kids. If push came to shove they would play the kid over the vet which is what we should be doing. The experience gained be the yoing sens allowed them to contribite positively for the parent club this year. Mark will learn far more playing, even in a losing cause then he will in the press box

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05-18-2012, 05:15 PM
  #959
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And trust that management will know what is best for each player's long-term development.

Earning your ice time and learning how to contribute at the next level are all parts of developing too. Not saying Scheifele hasn't earned his playing time to-date, but watching guys who the coaches feel bring something - that the team needs to compete - in this round is a learning experience too. All good things for Scheifele to see.

His career is just starting. If he hasn't made the jets and is a significant contributor by the time he's 21, then I'll get worried.

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05-18-2012, 06:52 PM
  #960
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And trust that management will know what is best for each player's long-term development.
Trust is too blind for me. I'd rather they explain their reasons and convince me.

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05-18-2012, 07:03 PM
  #961
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Trust is too blind for me. I'd rather they explain their reasons and convince me.
I'd prefer an explanation too - trust, but verify. I'm sure they have their reasons, but it's hard to deduce what they are.

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05-18-2012, 07:28 PM
  #962
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Trust is too blind for me. I'd rather they explain their reasons and convince me.
I guess i'm saying, if you believe McCambridge is the right guy in St. Johns, then let him determine his line-up, knowing full well the team has long-term goals for Scheifele, and short-term goals for the Ice Caps and their more seasoned players. If he deserves to be in the line-up, then i agree he should be in. Will experience and learn a lot on the ice in game situations.

But, I'm of the opinion that he shouldn't be in the line-up just because he's a 7th overall pick from last year, unless he's contributing. Learning on the job is great, but being in a calder cup run is great experience for all the players.

If Scheif and Rosa contribute the same - then i'd want Scheif in there for sure. But, if Rosa can help more than Scheif right now, then he should be in. Scheif will be a key contributor soon, he'll get his opportunity, but it doesn't need to right now if he's not ready - imo.

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05-18-2012, 07:37 PM
  #963
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I actually thought Scheifele looked pretty strong in most of his games. The usual issues regarding getting taken down too easy, but he was skating well, making a lot of beauty feeds and generally sniffing around the right side of the rink. He certainly looked like he belonged.

Why is he sitting? This is my total guess based on nothing but my own observations: It was that last game where he had a string of pretty bad turnovers. He came back with a big response shift at the end of the game which was great to see, but my *guess* is now that the games are tighter, they're turning to people with the experience playing at the pro level who may be less prone to making those types of errors.

If so, that's mostly just an experience thing, isn't really worrying to me. It's not like he has anywhere else to play right now anyway -- but I do hope they try him back in the mix in this series, because I bet if they put him back on the ice he'll come out flying.
That might be why he's sitting but a good coach puts the player back in to make amends after sending a message. If that's the case we have Mark sitting on the sidelines with the thought of the turnovers on his mind and how he's out cause of a few bad plays. A young player needs some freedom to try things, make mistakes and learn from them. The last thing you want to see is Mark going into the summer on a low for being scratched for a couple of bad plays.

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05-18-2012, 07:43 PM
  #964
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I guess i'm saying, if you believe McCambridge is the right guy in St. Johns, then let him determine his line-up, knowing full well the team has long-term goals for Scheifele, and short-term goals for the Ice Caps and their more seasoned players. If he deserves to be in the line-up, then i agree he should be in. Will experience and learn a lot on the ice in game situations.

But, I'm of the opinion that he shouldn't be in the line-up just because he's a 7th overall pick from last year, unless he's contributing. Learning on the job is great, but being in a calder cup run is great experience for all the players.

If Scheif and Rosa contribute the same - then i'd want Scheif in there for sure. But, if Rosa can help more than Scheif right now, then he should be in. Scheif will be a key contributor soon, he'll get his opportunity, but it doesn't need to right now if he's not ready - imo.
IV watched every game he has played and he hasn't looked out of place, he hasn't been the best but he has been far from the worst. Outside of the one rough patch he hasn't done anything to warrant losing his spot. The team is also 1 and 2 the last three games without him in the lineup so it's not like the vet's are getting it done.

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05-18-2012, 08:50 PM
  #965
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He is Only 19 and the Ice Caps are in the conference finals.

He doesnt have the size yet too compete with adults every night and the organization knows that plus with all the hockey he has played this season they must be worried about burning him out.

Just having him with the Ice Caps for this run is helping with his development. I just think of it like a Mini Tyler Seguin situation where it is better for him too watch.

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05-18-2012, 08:54 PM
  #966
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IV watched every game he has played and he hasn't looked out of place, he hasn't been the best but he has been far from the worst. Outside of the one rough patch he hasn't done anything to warrant losing his spot. The team is also 1 and 2 the last three games without him in the lineup so it's not like the vet's are getting it done.
That's true. Getting him in to change it up and add some youth and excitement can work too.

Maybe its a case of Zinger and TNSE being loyal to a fault with Rosa. Had him with the Moose, he played well for them and scored okay, so they brought him to St. Johns - and now will play him cause they have a history. Scheifele is still 'paying his dues' and earning his spot - maybe?

If Scheifele is 'as good' or 'adds some offensive flair' that others might not - and doesn;t turn the puck over is key situations - then he should play, and gain that experience. Ice Caps will need all the offensive players they can get against the Admirals.

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05-18-2012, 09:15 PM
  #967
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Earning your ice time and learning how to contribute at the next level are all parts of developing too. .
I think this is also a very important part of the equation. Surely he won't develop to his potential if he is never pushed and always given free reign? Look at what Torts is doing with Gaborik right now.

While Schiefele has had some good moments in the Playoffs, he hasn't been a key contributor to the club yet.

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05-18-2012, 10:36 PM
  #968
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I've only seen about half of the games and I would say Rosa has done worse than Shief more often than not, and also the comments from the coach earlier is that he felt good with Sheif and he was part of their post season line up plan...
I could be wrong but that makes me lean more towards injury or burnout theory... That could also show cause for such turnovers...
But this is all in theory...

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05-19-2012, 12:13 AM
  #969
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one of the reason I like HFboards so much is for good healthy debate like we are having on this topic. I never think a difference of opinion is a bad thing and I actually come here for the differences. We usually line up on most topics and it is fun to do battle at least once a year !! I understand your point on this topic and like Stej mentioned it is a complicated issue with many dimensions. In this case there probably isnít a right and wrong answer but more likely a perceived right and wrong based on our personal priorities.

When we owned an AHL team here I always understood that the goal of the team was multifaceted and I am sure the people of St Johnís know that as well. It is about finding the balance since by definition they are a farm team of the Jets. My concern (without having my tinfoil hat on too tight) is that at this point TNSE (or members of TNSE) might be so focused on winning at all costs that they don't challenge their coach to develop a couple of key prospects at the same time which is their job as well. This isn't black and white to me its grey. The Jets have two goals (I assume).........make money and win. The Ice Caps have three goals, Make money, win, and to be the key cog in the DRAFT AND DEVELOPE vision for TNSE.

My fear at this exact point in time is that although our boys mean well they are following the Chicago Wolves model more closely than the Manitoba Moose Model which is to put the best AHL players on the ice and forego development to win today. That although they want to develop Redmond and Scheifele they would rather sit them if it meant even a marginally better chance to win the Calder.

As you aptly said winning and developing aren't mutually exclusive and I would challenge my coach and ask "is the difference between Rosa and Scheifele on the 3rd line really the margin of error in this series"?? I am not sold that in the push pull of our goals that our farm club is acting in the best interests of Scheifele or the Jets right now and I love the TNSE people itís just that I am asking are they all in on winning the Calder and forgetting about the core in their vision?

To be clear I am not asking them to sell out and not win but I would challenge them to do it "while developing" within reason. The funny thing is after the blow out last game we might see some of the guys we are discussing back in the line up anyways

Fun debate and my viewpoint is just my opinion......I am not saying I am right on the topic itís just how I feel.
Really good comments as always, and I know that you always see both sides of the debate...you just need to agree with my side

One thing we have to remember is that this situation is very different than the wolves or the moose. TNSE owns both, and their people run all the hockey operations. Don't think for a second that Chevy, zinger, Mcambridge and even Noel are not talking about this run, personnel, etc.

"Blind trust?"....nah, not really. Just trust enough that the hockey ops guys know a little of what they are doing. I think the notion of building a winning culture through the entire "family" as it were is one helluva "development" strategy, and serves everyone from Postma to Kulda to Klingberg to etc.

Loyalty to Rosa? I don't really think so. If these guys were so hung up on loyalty, then they would just be dancing with the ones that brought them, and Scheifle and anyone else not there for the bulk of the season wouldn't even be there / draw in. I remember lots of us saying it would be great to have some of the young guys be around if the Caps went on a run...well, they did more than that, they put him in the lineup.

Being part of many teams, I just line up on the side of at this exact moment in time, Mcambridge et al owe it to the 20+ guys in that room to give them the best chance to win this thing and ingrain winning throughout the org. If that means Mark, put him in. If Mark is hurt, get him out. If that means Rosa, get him in. Tell us if Scheifle is hurt? Give us a reason? Are you kidding...so some meatball can take a whack at his wrist or knee if he draws back in? I don't need to know why he is out...just that the coach is doing everything he can to WIN. To me, at this point in May, winning would develop every single one of those men / boys. If Mark is as good and solid a kid and prospect as advertised, he will be developing in spades every single moment he is on the Rock...in the lineup, or out.

Love the debate

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05-19-2012, 01:41 AM
  #970
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Really good comments as always, and I know that you always see both sides of the debate...you just need to agree with my side

One thing we have to remember is that this situation is very different than the wolves or the moose. TNSE owns both, and their people run all the hockey operations. Don't think for a second that Chevy, zinger, Mcambridge and even Noel are not talking about this run, personnel, etc.

"Blind trust?"....nah, not really. Just trust enough that the hockey ops guys know a little of what they are doing. I think the notion of building a winning culture through the entire "family" as it were is one helluva "development" strategy, and serves everyone from Postma to Kulda to Klingberg to etc.

Loyalty to Rosa? I don't really think so. If these guys were so hung up on loyalty, then they would just be dancing with the ones that brought them, and Scheifle and anyone else not there for the bulk of the season wouldn't even be there / draw in. I remember lots of us saying it would be great to have some of the young guys be around if the Caps went on a run...well, they did more than that, they put him in the lineup.

Being part of many teams, I just line up on the side of at this exact moment in time, Mcambridge et al owe it to the 20+ guys in that room to give them the best chance to win this thing and ingrain winning throughout the org. If that means Mark, put him in. If Mark is hurt, get him out. If that means Rosa, get him in. Tell us if Scheifle is hurt? Give us a reason? Are you kidding...so some meatball can take a whack at his wrist or knee if he draws back in? I don't need to know why he is out...just that the coach is doing everything he can to WIN. To me, at this point in May, winning would develop every single one of those men / boys. If Mark is as good and solid a kid and prospect as advertised, he will be developing in spades every single moment he is on the Rock...in the lineup, or out.

Love the debate
I don't know about you guys, but I'm not in the business of having our number one prospect be out on the ice against bigger guys have one of them decide they want to take a rush at him. Hockey is a rough and tumble sport, but the kids been playing hockey pretty much straight through 11 months. I don't want him ending up injured to the point where his recovery ends up eating into his strength and conditioning in the off season.
In this, it's more about protecting our assets.

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05-19-2012, 09:43 AM
  #971
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I don't know about you guys, but I'm not in the business of having our number one prospect be out on the ice against bigger guys have one of them decide they want to take a rush at him. Hockey is a rough and tumble sport, but the kids been playing hockey pretty much straight through 11 months. I don't want him ending up injured to the point where his recovery ends up eating into his strength and conditioning in the off season.
In this, it's more about protecting our assets.
Thought about that also...this kid might be plain gassed. Skinny 19 year old that by all accounts went through a couple of OHL wars. Really good point Despot...someone has to make a balanced decision of what is right for the kid at each juncture.

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05-19-2012, 09:54 AM
  #972
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Really good comments as always, and I know that you always see both sides of the debate...you just need to agree with my side

One thing we have to remember is that this situation is very different than the wolves or the moose. TNSE owns both, and their people run all the hockey operations. Don't think for a second that Chevy, zinger, Mcambridge and even Noel are not talking about this run, personnel, etc.

"Blind trust?"....nah, not really. Just trust enough that the hockey ops guys know a little of what they are doing. I think the notion of building a winning culture through the entire "family" as it were is one helluva "development" strategy, and serves everyone from Postma to Kulda to Klingberg to etc.

Loyalty to Rosa? I don't really think so. If these guys were so hung up on loyalty, then they would just be dancing with the ones that brought them, and Scheifle and anyone else not there for the bulk of the season wouldn't even be there / draw in. I remember lots of us saying it would be great to have some of the young guys be around if the Caps went on a run...well, they did more than that, they put him in the lineup.

Being part of many teams, I just line up on the side of at this exact moment in time, Mcambridge et al owe it to the 20+ guys in that room to give them the best chance to win this thing and ingrain winning throughout the org. If that means Mark, put him in. If Mark is hurt, get him out. If that means Rosa, get him in. Tell us if Scheifle is hurt? Give us a reason? Are you kidding...so some meatball can take a whack at his wrist or knee if he draws back in? I don't need to know why he is out...just that the coach is doing everything he can to WIN. To me, at this point in May, winning would develop every single one of those men / boys. If Mark is as good and solid a kid and prospect as advertised, he will be developing in spades every single moment he is on the Rock...in the lineup, or out.

Love the debate
Excellant post and fun debate

Now here's hoping they start Mark next game and he gets the Hatty

In fairness I was a total advocate (and remain so) of the Jets winning every game to establish a culture (the anti fail for Nail movement) and there are more prospects than Mark on the Ice Caps so winning is still key as long as we are maximizing our development opportunities along the way.

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05-19-2012, 11:30 AM
  #973
Stej
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Bah, you guys/gals sucked me back into this discussion. Just for fun, here are the potential reasons I could come up with for Scheifele not playing and my opinions of those reasons.

1) He's gassed.
This would be a perfectly valid reason except he's said himself that is not the case.
2) He's injured.
Perfectly valid reason.
3) He's not good enough to crack the line-up.
I call absolute BS on this one. I watched him play most of the preseason games and 7 games of NHL regular season and I have a really hard time believing he's not capable of contributing in some way to our AHL affiliate. Putting this another way, we have much bigger worries if Scheifele is still operating at an ECHL level one full year after he was drafted.
4) He hasn't "earned" the right to take the spot of a player who's been there all year.
This would be the worst explanation of all. This should not even be a consideration.
5) He might disrupt the chemistry.
Again, not valid IMO. Especially considering the amount of injuries and line-up changes that St. John's has been dealing with all season.
6) He is good enough, but he might make "rookie mistakes" and turn the puck over at bad times.
I am not okay with this rational but I fear it might be the actual reason. The fastest way for him to develop will be to let him make a mistake or two and learn from it. You can only learn so much from the pressbox. This notion that rookie's should be stapled to the bench everytime they make a mistake does nothing but paralyze them with fear and suck the creativity out of their bodies. I watched Columbus turn promising draft picks into head-cases for years with this strategy. A perfect case in point is Derick Brassard. This is the AHL, not the NHL that we're talking about. It's the place that young players should be sent to learn and make mistakes.
A few people above have also alluded to the fact that we should trust McCambridge to make the best long-term decision for Scheifele's development. I'm not so sure his motivation is aligned with Scheifele's best interests necessarily. He's a coach and is trying to win at all costs. He's looking for an NHL gig as much as the players are. These types of decisions need to be made with a broader scope in mind.

Again, all of this is just my opinion.


Last edited by Stej: 05-19-2012 at 11:49 AM.
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Old
05-19-2012, 01:30 PM
  #974
Bob E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stej View Post
Bah, you guys/gals sucked me back into this discussion. Just for fun, here are the potential reasons I could come up with for Scheifele not playing and my opinions of those reasons.

1) He's gassed.
This would be a perfectly valid reason except he's said himself that is not the case.
2) He's injured.
Perfectly valid reason.
3) He's not good enough to crack the line-up.
I call absolute BS on this one. I watched him play most of the preseason games and 7 games of NHL regular season and I have a really hard time believing he's not capable of contributing in some way to our AHL affiliate. Putting this another way, we have much bigger worries if Scheifele is still operating at an ECHL level one full year after he was drafted.
4) He hasn't "earned" the right to take the spot of a player who's been there all year.
This would be the worst explanation of all. This should not even be a consideration.
5) He might disrupt the chemistry.
Again, not valid IMO. Especially considering the amount of injuries and line-up changes that St. John's has been dealing with all season.
6) He is good enough, but he might make "rookie mistakes" and turn the puck over at bad times.
I am not okay with this rational but I fear it might be the actual reason. The fastest way for him to develop will be to let him make a mistake or two and learn from it. You can only learn so much from the pressbox. This notion that rookie's should be stapled to the bench everytime they make a mistake does nothing but paralyze them with fear and suck the creativity out of their bodies. I watched Columbus turn promising draft picks into head-cases for years with this strategy. A perfect case in point is Derick Brassard. This is the AHL, not the NHL that we're talking about. It's the place that young players should be sent to learn and make mistakes.
A few people above have also alluded to the fact that we should trust McCambridge to make the best long-term decision for Scheifele's development. I'm not so sure his motivation is aligned with Scheifele's best interests necessarily. He's a coach and is trying to win at all costs. He's looking for an NHL gig as much as the players are. These types of decisions need to be made with a broader scope in mind.

Again, all of this is just my opinion.
And, just to add fuel to the fire, Marco Rosa has 1 assist in 9 games.

So, the being injured, being burned-out or making too many 'rookie mistakes/turnovers' arguments would be the only ones that would fly, at all, with me now.

I hope they get him in again.

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Old
05-19-2012, 01:34 PM
  #975
TCsmyth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stej View Post
Bah, you guys/gals sucked me back into this discussion. Just for fun, here are the potential reasons I could come up with for Scheifele not playing and my opinions of those reasons.

1) He's gassed.
This would be a perfectly valid reason except he's said himself that is not the case.
2) He's injured.
Perfectly valid reason.
3) He's not good enough to crack the line-up.
I call absolute BS on this one. I watched him play most of the preseason games and 7 games of NHL regular season and I have a really hard time believing he's not capable of contributing in some way to our AHL affiliate. Putting this another way, we have much bigger worries if Scheifele is still operating at an ECHL level one full year after he was drafted.
4) He hasn't "earned" the right to take the spot of a player who's been there all year.
This would be the worst explanation of all. This should not even be a consideration.
5) He might disrupt the chemistry.
Again, not valid IMO. Especially considering the amount of injuries and line-up changes that St. John's has been dealing with all season.
6) He is good enough, but he might make "rookie mistakes" and turn the puck over at bad times.
I am not okay with this rational but I fear it might be the actual reason. The fastest way for him to develop will be to let him make a mistake or two and learn from it. You can only learn so much from the pressbox. This notion that rookie's should be stapled to the bench everytime they make a mistake does nothing but paralyze them with fear and suck the creativity out of their bodies. I watched Columbus turn promising draft picks into head-cases for years with this strategy. A perfect case in point is Derick Brassard. This is the AHL, not the NHL that we're talking about. It's the place that young players should be sent to learn and make mistakes.
A few people above have also alluded to the fact that we should trust McCambridge to make the best long-term decision for Scheifele's development. I'm not so sure his motivation is aligned with Scheifele's best interests necessarily. He's a coach and is trying to win at all costs. He's looking for an NHL gig as much as the players are. These types of decisions need to be made with a broader scope in mind.

Again, all of this is just my opinion.
LOL...sucked you back in!

Good points, just one last thought on Mcambridge. TNSE is a very collaborative hockey group, and I know for a fact that him and Noel and Zinger and Chevy are in contact regularly, especially right now. When I say I trust Mcambridge right now on making the lineup, I am merely referring to the guy that is in that room everyday.

On the thought about Mark being gassed...you don't think he would really say do you

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