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Nino Niederreiter

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Old
04-01-2012, 12:57 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
How many times have you actually watched Nino play,know who his linemates are,which lines he plays on?
I've watched him a ton of times. The best prospects in the world at least show signs of things to come for the future, Niederreiter has done nothing to show me that he'll be a top 6 NHL forward in the future.

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Old
04-01-2012, 01:04 PM
  #52
Teuehikan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
Nothing against Niderreiter but: Are there any NHLers who had terrible stats as 19 year olds and went on to become first line players?
Keith Primeau - 15 pts in 58 game years after draft, next years in AHL, takes somes years to finally score 30 goals.

Ryan Smith - 11 pts in 48 games at 19yo. 39 goals years after.

Shane Doan - 17/12/11/22 pts in his first 4 years after draft, past some time in AHL during 3th, 26 goals during his 4th

Olli Jokinen - first 4 years in nhl (starting at 19yo), 21/21/16/29 pts, 36 goals/65 pts during years 5.

But in find lot more case where guy been rush and never bounce back...

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04-01-2012, 01:12 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
Drafting a 3rd line grinder who can score clutch goals with the fifth overall pick is horrible drafting
I never said that I would have drafted him if I had the choice, I'm okay with the pick though.

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04-01-2012, 01:13 PM
  #54
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Double Post

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Old
04-01-2012, 02:26 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack DiBiase View Post
James Neal:

18-v 2005-06 OHL 66 21 37 58
19-v 2006-07 OHL 45 27 38 65
20-v 2007-08 AHL 62 18 19 37
21-v 2008-09 NHL 77 24 13 37
22-v 2009-10 NHL 78 27 28 55
23-v 2010-11 NHL 79 22 23 45
24-v 2011-12 NHL 76 37 41 78


Max Pacioretty:

18-v 2006-07 USHL 60 21 42 63
19-v 2007-08 CCHA 37 15 24 39
20-v 2008-09 AHL 37 6 23 29
20-v 2008-09 NHL 34 3 8 11
21-v 2009-10 NHL 52 3 11 14
21-v 2009-10 AHL 18 2 9 11
22-v 2010-11 AHL 27 17 15 32
22-v 2010-11 NHL 37 14 10 24
23-v 2011-12 NHL 74 30 29 59


Nino Niederreiter:

18-v 2010-11 WHL 55 41 29 70
18-v 2010-11 NHL 9 1 1 2
19-v 2011-12 AHL 6 3 1 4
19-v 2011-12 NHL 49 1 0 1


Compared to these guys, he a'ight.
Neal had 24x more goals...

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Old
04-01-2012, 03:04 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Quick,share with us tonight's mega million numbers.
I didn't realize that posters weren't allowed to state their opinions on the future of a prospect in the "prospects" forum.
Just because a poster doesn't believe one of your team's prospects is going to turn into a 120+ point player, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with his opinion.

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Old
04-01-2012, 10:13 PM
  #57
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Saw some of the game today, you can definitely see the potential. Seems weak on the puck. I never put much stock in a rookie season. Most guys struggle at that age. Lets keep in mind that he is still 19. That being said, if Isles re-sign PAP, they have Moulson and Okposo as 3 of the top 4 wingers. With bailey producing that means Nino might have to produce in the bottom 6 somehow in order to move up. Could be a long wait. If Im the Isles, I let PAP walk. Easy call for me.

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04-01-2012, 10:46 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
Saw some of the game today, you can definitely see the potential. Seems weak on the puck. I never put much stock in a rookie season. Most guys struggle at that age. Lets keep in mind that he is still 19. That being said, if Isles re-sign PAP, they have Moulson and Okposo as 3 of the top 4 wingers. With bailey producing that means Nino might have to produce in the bottom 6 somehow in order to move up. Could be a long wait. If Im the Isles, I let PAP walk. Easy call for me.
Or sign him to a shorter deal. You don't let your second best point producer walk for a guy with 1 point in 50 games. If Nino isn't sent to the AHL for at least a full season, it would be poor management.

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04-01-2012, 10:58 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Trap Jesus View Post
Or sign him to a shorter deal. You don't let your second best point producer walk for a guy with 1 point in 50 games. If Nino isn't sent to the AHL for at least a full season, it would be poor management.
Ideally, 2 yrs. that could work. But I doubt he'd sign for that. He's probably going to want around 4.

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04-02-2012, 11:26 AM
  #60
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Nino should be in the AHL next season until he EARNS a call up. Resign PAP to 4-5 years. He is one of our best fowards and to lose him would be a huge blow to this franchise.

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Old
04-02-2012, 12:56 PM
  #61
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Nino's biggest weakness is his Skating. He really needs to work on that this summer and then have a solid year playing in BPORT in the top 6.

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Old
04-02-2012, 01:08 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by LuckyLuke87 View Post
Ruined? Not. Hurt a lot? Yes. Doubt he'll ever become top line player, might be solid second liner though. Honestly, I would be shocked if he became that 80 point powerforward star some thought he will be. Probably 20-30 points next year, 35-45 year after and 50-55 in 2014/15...60 point potential max.
Lars Eller's type of evolution. Hell yeah!

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Old
04-02-2012, 02:29 PM
  #63
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I think it's up to Nino. He can either go into this offseason depressed, wondering if he belongs in this league, or he can go into it hungry to prove people wrong next year. Based on what I've seen/heard/read about this kid as a person, I think he's going to be fine.

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Old
04-02-2012, 04:14 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fedro91 View Post
I've been looking hard to found a nhler that a bad year in is first full season.
I found the following;
It is nearly impossible to find comparables simply because it is highly unusual for a NHL team to allow a prospect to struggle that badly in the NHL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
Rarely has a player come up to the NHL and played 4th line minutes as a teenager. Most either play at a junior level or play, at worst 3rd line minutes. The reason being is that Junior leagues are high quality in North America. However this happens ALL THE TIME in Europe, where talented teenagers are put in defensive roles and/or play 4th minutes day in and day out. There are better comparisons over the pond of players in a similar situation to Nino.
It is not that rare. Couturier, Seguin, Burmistrov, and Turris were all teenagers seeing 4th line minutes their rookie seasons in recent years. None of them struggled like Nino. What is unusual is that a team has decided to keep a struggling teenager in the NHL.

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Old
04-02-2012, 05:48 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
Hes on the 4th line with Marty Reasoner and Jay Pandolfo playing like 9 min a night........
And he's the weakest link on that line which is why he's been scratched so many times. You can't use poor linemates as an excuse when the kid doesn't even outplay them.

The reality is very simple: Nino Niederreiter was not good enough to play in the NHL this year, but the Islanders kept him up anyway.

The theory about only keeping him for the cap hit is plausible, but you have to wonder if the player would have even been willing to go back to the juniors for another year. Their decision to keep him makes more sense if they chose between assigning him to Switzerland and keeping him in the NHL. Snow said he gave his word to Niederreiter that he would be kept in the NHL this year, which is something that doesn't mesh with the idea of choosing between the juniors and the NHL as in that case the GM would have no reason to give any guarantees. You would only give guarantees if the player had another option like playing in Europe.

In any case, I think the real organizational mistake is in not making young players earn their roster spots.

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04-02-2012, 05:52 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
It is nearly impossible to find comparables simply because it is highly unusual for a NHL team to allow a prospect to struggle that badly in the NHL.


It is not that rare. Couturier, Seguin, Burmistrov, and Turris were all teenagers seeing 4th line minutes their rookie seasons in recent years. None of them struggled like Nino. What is unusual is that a team has decided to keep a struggling teenager in the NHL.
Although Couturier technically played on the 4th line, he has gotten a ton of minutes, even early in the season. I mean you can probably count on one hand the amount of games he has gotten with less than 10 minutes of ice.

Seguin played all over the place. From 2nd line wing to 4th line center. His minutes often hovered around the 12-13 minute mark with some PP time. That's decent and not prototypical 4th liner.

Burmistrov played a lot on the Trashers, if I remember correctly he was used more on the 3rd line rather than the 4th.


I dunno about Turris because I don't watch too match western conference hockey. But certainly the first three were not in a similar position to Nino.

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Old
04-02-2012, 06:02 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Quick,share with us tonight's mega million numbers.
This response only works if someone states opinion as fact. he used words like "I think" and "probably"

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Old
04-02-2012, 06:05 PM
  #68
Chapin Landvogt
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I've simply been shocked at how the Isles have made use of Niederreiter this year. Just shocked.

I cannot for the love of me figure out what exactly has been gained by having one of your top prospects play 6-10 minutes a night on a 4th line (the league's lowest-scoring by the way).

Has he learned things? Sure.

Some say he's on the Island simply because Snow promised him he would be. Surely things like that don't take place at the NHL level, right?

In any case, in Wallace and Haley, the team has had two players who'd have been fine, if not downright better, in a 4th line capacity. The overwhelming majority of fans who post on these boards definitely would say that he should have been back in Portland this year. If he were with a team like Detroit, he most certainly would have been.

Thing is, Bridgeport would have been the best place for him now at this point in his development. Of course, he wasn't eligible for the AHL, which is unfortunate for him and the Islanders. He did a conditioning stint there and got some points. I wouldn't have been surprised in the least if he would have been a 50 point guy in the AHL this season.

One now has to wonder if he'll at least start there next season? If the Isles were to actually go out and get a few of the wingers they could desperately use (if they were to have any real playoff aspirations), then there'd be no space for him on the Island anyways.

This all said, he's had enough chances and good opportunities around the goalmouth to have had 10 goals by now. It seriously wouldn't surprise me in the least if he sticks again next season and gets 25+ points in a lower line capacity.

I wonder if he'll play for Switzerland at the WC next month?

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Old
04-02-2012, 06:49 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by janecky View Post
And he's the weakest link on that line which is why he's been scratched so many times. You can't use poor linemates as an excuse when the kid doesn't even outplay them.

The reality is very simple: Nino Niederreiter was not good enough to play in the NHL this year, but the Islanders kept him up anyway.

The theory about only keeping him for the cap hit is plausible, but you have to wonder if the player would have even been willing to go back to the juniors for another year. Their decision to keep him makes more sense if they chose between assigning him to Switzerland and keeping him in the NHL. Snow said he gave his word to Niederreiter that he would be kept in the NHL this year, which is something that doesn't mesh with the idea of choosing between the juniors and the NHL as in that case the GM would have no reason to give any guarantees. You would only give guarantees if the player had another option like playing in Europe.

In any case, I think the real organizational mistake is in not making young players earn their roster spots.
I would say both things are true: Nino is not an NHL player yet AND he's been used in a way that minimizes any chance of success. It's not just that he's been on a 4th line, he's been on a bad 4th line on probably the worst 5x5 team in the league - a poorly coached team that spends large stretches of most games in their own end, with one of the worst defensive units (especially with Streit and MacDonald struggling back from major injuries). It would be hard to orchestrate a worse position to put a young player.

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04-02-2012, 06:56 PM
  #70
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I'm not worried, his progression will be slow but he will become a very solid power-forward in a few years. Let's just give him time, not all prospects become instant super offensive stars

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04-03-2012, 02:03 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
Although Couturier technically played on the 4th line, he has gotten a ton of minutes, even early in the season. I mean you can probably count on one hand the amount of games he has gotten with less than 10 minutes of ice.

Seguin played all over the place. From 2nd line wing to 4th line center. His minutes often hovered around the 12-13 minute mark with some PP time. That's decent and not prototypical 4th liner.

Burmistrov played a lot on the Trashers, if I remember correctly he was used more on the 3rd line rather than the 4th.


I dunno about Turris because I don't watch too match western conference hockey. But certainly the first three were not in a similar position to Nino.
All of those players were 10-12th in TOI amongst forwards on their team. That's 4th line minutes. They didn't get as few as Nino, but that's because he is in way over his head and shouldn't be in the NHL.

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Old
04-03-2012, 02:30 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
I wonder if he'll play for Switzerland at the WC next month?
I really hope so and if the Isles say yes I think he'll play. Switzerland has a quite good depth at Defense now, but we still lack of good offensive players

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Old
04-03-2012, 02:46 PM
  #73
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Why does everyone hang it on being rushed? the guy is a big dude ...who doesn't fit in..maybe he's not NHL material.

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04-03-2012, 02:49 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by PaStromey View Post
Nino should be in the AHL next season until he EARNS a call up. Resign PAP to 4-5 years. He is one of our best fowards and to lose him would be a huge blow to this franchise.
Really? One of your best players and you're in the cellar. Big deal if you lost him.

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Old
04-03-2012, 03:38 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by miscreant View Post
I would say both things are true: Nino is not an NHL player yet AND he's been used in a way that minimizes any chance of success. It's not just that he's been on a 4th line, he's been on a bad 4th line on probably the worst 5x5 team in the league - a poorly coached team that spends large stretches of most games in their own end, with one of the worst defensive units (especially with Streit and MacDonald struggling back from major injuries). It would be hard to orchestrate a worse position to put a young player.

The thing is: where else do you put him? There wasn't a place to put him on the team and the Mensa candidates running the team didn't or wouldn't acknowledge it. Putting on that fourth line is the only thing they could have done to protect from being embarrassed nightly.

Simply put, he is not ready for the NHL but the Islanders kep him. His skating is subpar. His timing is a beat too slow. He's weak on skates and looks like a newborn deer if somebody meets him at the line. BUT, he goes to the right areas, finishes his checks, mixes it up and is a big body. Those are positive signs. Of a top 6 forward? No. But, it's unfair to him to judge him now. He was equipped and shouldn't have been in the league.

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