You still need offense. Anyway i belive that it is Martin Broduer who is a big reason for thier success. Chicago don't have Broduer. Correction they don't have Martin Broduer. The problem with Chicago is they don't many offensive prospects asides from Radulov. There top prospects are all d-men. They could have opted to draft a guy like Olesz or Tukonen instead of Barker as they already have Seabrook and Babchuk. You need offense and defense not just one or the other.
While I agree with you to a certain extent, GM's have stated that the most difficult position to fill was a legit #1 d-man. If the Hawks are extraordinarily lucky (isn't that an oxymoron?) they might have more than 1 of their prospects turn into that type of player. If that does happen, they will be able to trade one of them (if they chose) to land a legit 1st line sniper.
I will say that while the Hawks lack blue chip prospects, they aren't that bad off up front prospect wise (Radulov, Yakubov, Vorobiev, etc) and their core forwards are all under 25 (Bell, Calder, Ruutu, Arnason).
Sorry, all, I gotta toss in a homer vote for my oilers. They aren't tops in the league but we have some pretty good depth with these guys being 25 and younger
The Stars have a bunch of old guys and a bunch of prospects with nothing in between.
I agree here.
The youngest everyday defenseman on that team is Philippe Boucher at 31 years old. Then you have Richard Matvichuk at 31, Chris Therien at 33, Jon Klemm at 34, and Sergei Zubov at 34. The unforunate thing for the Stars is that aside from Daley and Erskine, there isn't anything on the way up in the next season or two. And John Erskine's potential is a #6/7 guy, similar in style to Wade Belak.
My favourite is Johan Fransson, but after him the depth is a pretty fair dropoff... unlike some, I can't see Trevor Daley anything more than a #3 guy, apparently he's been "meh" in the AHL as of late.
The youngest everyday defenseman on that team is Philippe Boucher at 31 years old. Then you have Richard Matvichuk at 31, Chris Therien at 33, Jon Klemm at 34, and Sergei Zubov at 34.
You still need offense. Anyway i belive that it is Martin Broduer who is a big reason for thier success. Chicago don't have Broduer. Correction they don't have Martin Broduer. The problem with Chicago is they don't many offensive prospects asides from Radulov. There top prospects are all d-men. They could have opted to draft a guy like Olesz or Tukonen instead of Barker as they already have Seabrook and Babchuk. You need offense and defense not just one or the other.
Had I been CHI, I would definately taken Olesz or Tukonen, preferably Olesz as I think he'll become a great player, but they both have the offense. I was thinking Tukonen with Ruutu could've been a great combo.
Had I been CHI, I would definately taken Olesz or Tukonen, preferably Olesz as I think he'll become a great player, but they both have the offense. I was thinking Tukonen with Ruutu could've been a great combo.
I'm sure it's a complete coincedence the player you prefer is the one your team selected.
The Hawks took the best player available, which is the smart play. If Barker develops as expected, he could be traded for a proven offensive player. I am glad the Hawks took the lowest risk player (IMO) in the bunch because they don't have the luxury or gambling on relatively more of a long shot prospect.
The youngest everyday defenseman on that team is Philippe Boucher at 31 years old. Then you have Richard Matvichuk at 31, Chris Therien at 33, Jon Klemm at 34, and Sergei Zubov at 34. The unforunate thing for the Stars is that aside from Daley and Erskine, there isn't anything on the way up in the next season or two. And John Erskine's potential is a #6/7 guy, similar in style to Wade Belak.
My favourite is Johan Fransson, but after him the depth is a pretty fair dropoff... unlike some, I can't see Trevor Daley anything more than a #3 guy, apparently he's been "meh" in the AHL as of late.
Maybe I'm missing something, but what does the age of the Stars current d-men have anything to do with prospect depth? As for Daley in the AHL, he's currently playing on a team that has lost 8 straight, and scored I believe a total of 2 goals in their last 5 or 6 games.
Maybe I'm missing something, but what does the age of the Stars current d-men have anything to do with prospect depth?
The best drafted defenseman in the history of the Dallas Stars (1993) has been Richard Jackman, then Petr Buzek and Joel Kwiatkowski... it's definitely related to the topic of the Stars competence (or incompetence) to develop youth on the blueline.
Unless there's been some serious changes in the scouting department, I'm not sure how anyone can think that trend will change.
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As for Daley in the AHL, he's currently playing on a team that has lost 8 straight, and scored I believe a total of 2 goals in their last 5 or 6 games.
Apparently he's been part of the problem instead of a potential solution.
The best drafted defenseman in the history of the Dallas Stars (1993) has been Richard Jackman, then Petr Buzek and Joel Kwiatkowski... it's definitely related to the topic of the Stars competence (or incompetence) to develop youth on the blueline.
Unless there's been some serious changes in the scouting department, I'm not sure how anyone can think that trend will change.
Well you want to cut out Hatcher and Matvichuk from their Minnesota days, thats fine. But, outside of Jackman and Vagner , they havent used first round picks on d-men(excluding this past draft), and the highest they have taken a d-men besides those two has been Daley at #43(again, excluding the past draft)..so I think it goes more not even picking defensemen high in the draft rather than incompetence in developing them.
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Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Apparently he's been part of the problem instead of a potential solution.
Those guys have been all over Ellis, Ott, and Daley ever since that team started losing. Its alot easier to blame someone else's prospects rather than your own. Im actually a bit surprised he had something kind of positive to say about Ott.
Well you want to cut out Hatcher and Matvichuk from their Minnesota days, thats fine. But, outside of Jackman and Vagner , they havent used first round picks on d-men(excluding this past draft), and the highest they have taken a d-men besides those two has been Daley at #43(again, excluding the past draft)..so I think it goes more not even picking defensemen high in the draft rather than incompetence in developing them.
It's not about where they picked them, the team has been incompetent in the drafting and development of defensemen. There's no questioning that... but they've been successful in drafting forwards and goaltenders.
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Those guys have been all over Ellis, Ott, and Daley ever since that team started losing. Its alot easier to blame someone else's prospects rather than your own. Im actually a bit surprised he had something kind of positive about Ott.
True, a lot of them are... but "montreal" is a pretty objective guy, he's not fingering Daley for the 8 game losing streak, he's explaining Trevor's play.
It's not about where they picked them, the team has been incompetent in the drafting and development of defensemen. There's no questioning that... but they've been successful in drafting forwards and goaltenders.
I guess I somewhat agree with you. Because they have consistantly been picking d-men late in the 2nd round or later(as the first defenseman they take), that makes them incompetent in drafting d-men, and because they wait so long, they dont really have anyone to develop, so they are incompetent there.
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Originally Posted by Leafaholix
True, a lot of them are... but "montreal" is a pretty objective guy, he's not fingering Daley for the 8 game losing streak, he's explaining Trevor's play.
Yes I see, but I also think thats just a 2 or 3 game sample. Not entirely sure though.
I'm sure it's a complete coincedence the player you prefer is the one your team selected.
The Hawks took the best player available, which is the smart play. If Barker develops as expected, he could be traded for a proven offensive player. I am glad the Hawks took the lowest risk player (IMO) in the bunch because they don't have the luxury or gambling on relatively more of a long shot prospect.
No, if you look and see the predicted picks before the draft that I did, I though the hawks would get Olesz or Tukonen depending on when it was that I did them. I really really did want FLA to get Olesz but I was so sure that he wouldn't drop. That's why I was shocked on draft day. I though the top 4 would be:
Ovechkin
Malkin
Olesz
Barker
But the other Scenario was:
Ovechkin
Malkin
Tukonen
Barker
Olesz
. That's why I'm so glad FLA got Olesz. Believe me, I'm so glad CHI didn't take him. I've always been very high on him. Had Olesz ended up with the CBJ's or CAR, etc... I would've typed the same thing. He was IMO right up there with Malkn and Ovechkin when you look past his injuries.
01) Johan Fransson 8.0C- Saying he has the upside of a #2 defenseman is hardly a stretch, but because he's a few years away, he has a C.
02) Trevor Daley 7.5B- You yourself don't think he'll be more than a #3. Well a 7 is 3-4 d-man, so this is saying he's a really good #3. Again, not a stretch.
03) Shawn Belle 8.0D- This guy has all the tools to be great, but also has a lot of hockey sense issues. Chances are he won't reach his true potential, hence the D.
04) Mark Fistric 7.0A- Potential to be a solid #4 guy, and is a fairly safe bet to get there.
05) Niclas Grossman 7.0B- Compared to Mattias Norstrom by the guy who runs eliteprospects.com, a few years away so he gets a B
06) Matt Nickerson 6.0B- Bottom pairin, enforcer type. Again, I dont see a problem with giving him a 6.
07) Dan Jancevski 6.0A- You get what you see with him; a #6/7 guy who plays decent defensively
08) Elias Granath 5.5B- Guy who wont get out of the AHL without injuries occuring
09) Nik Vaino 5.5B- Same as Granath
10) John Erskine 5.5A- Similar situation to Jancevski; you get what you see.
11) Trevor Ludwig 5.0B- AHL spare
12) Lukas Vomela 5.0B-AHL spare
13) Geoff Waugh 5.0A-AHL spare
14) Vadim Khomitski 5.0C-AHL spare
Those guys have been all over Ellis, Ott, and Daley ever since that team started losing. Its alot easier to blame someone else's prospects rather than your own. Im actually a bit surprised he had something kind of positive to say about Ott.
That team as a whole isn't playing very well, but Ott and Daley haven't done a whole lot to change that, from the little I have seen from them. I'd say, Motreal's evaluation of the Star's players are spot on, particularly of Daley's. Showed skill, but didn't do a whole lot of good with it.
01) Johan Fransson 8.0C- Saying he has the upside of a #2 defenseman is hardly a stretch, but because he's a few years away, he has a C.
02) Trevor Daley 7.5B- You yourself don't think he'll be more than a #3. Well a 7 is 3-4 d-man, so this is saying he's a really good #3. Again, not a stretch.
03) Shawn Belle 8.0D- This guy has all the tools to be great, but also has a lot of hockey sense issues. Chances are he won't reach his true potential, hence the D.
04) Mark Fistric 7.0A- Potential to be a solid #4 guy, and is a fairly safe bet to get there.
05) Niclas Grossman 7.0B- Compared to Mattias Norstrom by the guy who runs eliteprospects.com, a few years away so he gets a B
06) Matt Nickerson 6.0B- Bottom pairin, enforcer type. Again, I dont see a problem with giving him a 6.
07) Dan Jancevski 6.0A- You get what you see with him; a #6/7 guy who plays decent defensively
08) Elias Granath 5.5B- Guy who wont get out of the AHL without injuries occuring
09) Nik Vaino 5.5B- Same as Granath
10) John Erskine 5.5A- Similar situation to Jancevski; you get what you see.
11) Trevor Ludwig 5.0B- AHLer
12) Lukas Vomela 5.0B-AHLer
13) Geoff Waugh 5.0A-AHLer
14) Vadim Khomitski 5.0C
The humourous ratings are...
01) Johan Fransson 8.0C
02) Trevor Daley 7.5B
03) Shawn Belle 8.0D 04) Mark Fistric 7.0A
05) Niclas Grossman 7.0B
06) Matt Nickerson 6.0B
07) Dan Jancevski 6.0A
08) Elias Granath 5.5B
09) Nik Vaino 5.5B
10) John Erskine 5.5A
11) Trevor Ludwig 5.0B
12) Lukas Vomela 5.0B
713) Geoff Waugh 5.0A
14) Vadim Khomitski 5.0C
Fistric is far from guarenteed.
Grossman is a good defensive player against juniors, but he hasn't really played vs. professionals and has no offensive game to speak of to be labeled as a #3/4 defenseman.
Matt Nickerson and Dan Jancevski are depth players, guys like Wade Belak, Eric Cairns, etc... they're big, can play physical and drop the gloves. But neither are great defensively nor do they have any offensive upside to be rated as safe bets in the #5/6 spot.
And the fact that 6 of the remaining 7 are rated as either "guarenteed" or "safe bets" is ridiculous. If you're looking at AHL players, they deserve 3's, not 5's.
Based on the ratings of Dallas fans, the Stars defense should be top 5... but sadly that's not how it works.
Sadly true....
And the saying with Belle, lots of Blues fans agree that Zach Fitzgerald is better then he is. Belle can skate like the wind but he couldnt tell a hockey puck from a baseball. Little hockey sense. If he could learn to anticipate he might get a good shot in the NHL, until then he is a fast version of khavanov.
Grossman is a good defensive player against juniors, but he hasn't really played vs. professionals and has no offensive game to speak of to be labeled as a #3/4 defenseman.
Actually, Grossman has been great in the SEL this season. Södertälje has plenty of defensemen which has forced Grossman to see limited ice time at times, but I would consider him a candidate for the rookie of the year award in the SEL, especially if he keeps it up.
As for his offensive game, it has improved significantly which I recently noticed watching him play in an U20 tournament (vs Finland, Russia, Czech Rep). Grossman received plenty of time on the pp and looked good actually, although Johan Fransson was obviously the one that shined
Since being drafted Grossman has become a favorite of mine having seen him play closely, numerous of times after being drafted. I really like his physical game, his excellent leadership skills and his stability.
Actually, Grossman has been great in the SEL this season. Södertälje has plenty of defensemen which has forced Grossman to see limited ice time at times, but I would consider him a candidate for the rookie of the year award in the SEL, especially if he keeps it up.
As for his offensive game, it has improved significantly which I recently noticed watching him play in an U20 tournament (vs Finland, Russia, Czech Rep). Grossman received plenty of time on the pp and looked good actually, although Johan Fransson was obviously the one that shined
Since being drafted Grossman has become a favorite of mine having seen him play closely, numerous of times after being drafted. I really like his physical game, his excellent leadership skills and his stability.
He's still only had 17 games experience. I wasn't questioning his play.
, they havent used first round picks on d-men(excluding this past draft), and the highest they have taken a d-men besides those two has been Daley at #43(again, excluding the past draft)..so I think it goes more not even picking defensemen high in the draft rather than incompetence in developing them.
