HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > San Jose Sharks
Notices

PGT: Sharks at Coyotes

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-30-2012, 09:54 PM
  #126
Phu
Registered User
 
Phu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,731
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan35 View Post
We won't. Because someone with some hockey sense will either adjust the system to prioritize scoring chances over impotent shots on goal---it'll either be McLellan or his successor. But you'll claim that this validates your "unlucky" theory, so we'll keep having this conversation until one of us gets sick of it.
They may make changes that make it impossible to test this, but you don't have to. You look to last season and other McLellan seasons; this has always been his strategy. The Sharks under Tmac have been prone to having games where they ridiculously outplay, outshoot and outchance the other team and still lose. However, the difference and is we got the correct result more often than not in previous seasons while this year terrible PDO is causing not just more losses but at times near-constant losses. That is simply not a player-, system- or even play-based result.

Phu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 02:26 AM
  #127
jwhitesj
Registered User
 
jwhitesj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pleasanton, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,087
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
They may make changes that make it impossible to test this, but you don't have to. You look to last season and other McLellan seasons; this has always been his strategy. The Sharks under Tmac have been prone to having games where they ridiculously outplay, outshoot and outchance the other team and still lose. However, the difference and is we got the correct result more often than not in previous seasons while this year terrible PDO is causing not just more losses but at times near-constant losses. That is simply not a player-, system- or even play-based result.
You say the system is prone to having games where they outplay, outshoot, and outchance the other team and still loose, yet the issues with the Sharks are not a systematic problem. How does that make any sense?

If the system is causing them to loose games they should win, and they are constantly not winning because of this system, the system is the problem, is it not?

jwhitesj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 02:46 AM
  #128
Phu
Registered User
 
Phu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,731
vCash: 500
No those instances are rare, though spectacular and clearly show the system. For it to happen enough to where it doesn't "even out" by a large margin is far out of the norm.

Phu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 03:56 AM
  #129
wtfisthis
Registered User
 
wtfisthis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 2,778
vCash: 500
Are you trying to say that McClellan's system relies on luck to win games? If thats the case, ****ing fire his ass right now.

wtfisthis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 07:04 AM
  #130
Phu
Registered User
 
Phu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,731
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfisthis View Post
Are you trying to say that McClellan's system relies on luck to win games?
Every system does to some degree, the Sharks' system is specifically designed to minimize the effect of luck by stressing possession and winning the shot (and chance) battle. Basically it does everything it can to make sure we reach our potential while disadvantaging the opponent.

It is arguably why the team made the final four twice in a row, when our team was basically a final four team. It is also why this year seems like such a disaster, because this result is so unlikely and frankly cannot be solved by changing the system, as that would actually reduce our chances of winning.

Phu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 09:17 AM
  #131
hockeyball
Registered User
 
hockeyball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 17,577
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
Every system does to some degree, the Sharks' system is specifically designed to minimize the effect of luck by stressing possession and winning the shot (and chance) battle. Basically it does everything it can to make sure we reach our potential while disadvantaging the opponent.

It is arguably why the team made the final four twice in a row, when our team was basically a final four team. It is also why this year seems like such a disaster, because this result is so unlikely and frankly cannot be solved by changing the system, as that would actually reduce our chances of winning.
The great thing about this argument is it's impossible to disprove because it's so vaporous to begin with!

hockeyball is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 09:28 AM
  #132
vilpertti
Registered User
 
vilpertti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,600
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfisthis View Post
Are you trying to say that McClellan's system relies on luck to win games? If thats the case, ****ing fire his ass right now.
If there was a strategy that a team could execute and not have a bounce null it, there would be teams that go 82-0 in the regular season. Every good team plays a strategy that gives them the highest chance to win. Alot of the defensive schemes rely on players making the right choice at the exact right tenth of a second to lift a stick or whatnot. When you get to that scale, you realise there's always an element of "luck", if not from anything else, the physical attributes of the puck which is not an ideal object in any sense.

vilpertti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 09:58 AM
  #133
Thepainter
Registered User
 
Thepainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bay Area, California
Country: United States
Posts: 5,149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
The great thing about this argument is it's impossible to disprove because it's so vaporous to begin with!
His argument and constant defense of it is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on these boards.

Thepainter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 03:15 PM
  #134
Phu
Registered User
 
Phu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,731
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepainter View Post
His argument and constant defense of it is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on these boards.
Unfortunately it is also one of the most correct. Analysis sounding smart has no bearing on its correctness; there's about ten other explanations going on and the only way they all make sense is if the one I'm giving is correct. We're only 2 points out of the division lead. In a game full of bounces, that's only 3 games we needed to catch breaks in to be above the fray right now. Even if you don't buy the unsustainably bad PDO, any fan can see that more than 3 games in every 82-game season can easily be chalked up to bad luck.

Even if you don't buy luck as the primary reason for our problems, if you have watched the games this season, there's no denying we have had worse luck than usual and it has cost us some games.

Phu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 04:57 PM
  #135
wtfisthis
Registered User
 
wtfisthis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 2,778
vCash: 500
Tmac's offensive system: Shoot a massive amount of point shots and see what happens. Keep doing it until it works and dont change a thing.

You always see them work the puck down low only to get it to the point at the end. Then whichever dman is there, takes a point shot that most of the time, leads to absolutely nothing and sometimes even gets blocked for an odd man rush the other way. And the few times that they finally get a really good bounce, they get a putback goal or tip-in or whatever, but thats very rare. Then beat this strategy to death again on the PP. If this isnt relying on luck to win games, I dont know what is.

Im sure other coaches rely on a little bit of "luck" but Tmac's strategies seem to revolve around it. And if thats the case, Im not surprised by their struggles right now. If he has another system, then Im not seeing it.

wtfisthis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 05:06 PM
  #136
MadmanSJ
Know Your Onion!
 
MadmanSJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 1,317
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
Unfortunately it is also one of the most correct. Analysis sounding smart has no bearing on its correctness; there's about ten other explanations going on and the only way they all make sense is if the one I'm giving is correct. We're only 2 points out of the division lead. In a game full of bounces, that's only 3 games we needed to catch breaks in to be above the fray right now. Even if you don't buy the unsustainably bad PDO, any fan can see that more than 3 games in every 82-game season can easily be chalked up to bad luck.

Even if you don't buy luck as the primary reason for our problems, if you have watched the games this season, there's no denying we have had worse luck than usual and it has cost us some games.
I like your point about winning an extra three games due to bounces but I have a question for you: Do you think the Sharks are unique in their poor misfortune in games here and there? Do not all other teams suffer losses at the hand of this luck? Misfortune craps on everyone equally, it is not choosy nor does it have a consciousness or hold an agenda. It just is.

Also, getting to the playoffs is not the ultimate goal here. They dont give the players rings for making the top 8. Our team has problems beyond misfortune, and this doesn't bode well if they make it in by the skin of their teethy teeth.

MadmanSJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:35 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.