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Darren Dreger: Brian Burke isn't going anywhere.

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Old
03-31-2012, 09:04 AM
  #26
blasted_Sabre
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This is Burke's summer of change. It wont shock me at all if Dion and Kessel are gone by next season.

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03-31-2012, 09:05 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
I'm sorry.. do we not have a young player (under 25) on our squad who is on pace for his first 80 point season?

Please tell me the last time the Leafs had an 80 point forward, who they were and how old they were when putting up those numbers.
Under a run and gun system. We'll see if he matches that total under Carlyle next year. Since the coaching change: 9 points in 14 games. Decent but not an 80 point pace.

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03-31-2012, 09:07 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
Brian Burke is still owed 6 million bucks. of course he's not going anywhere.
Actually closer to 7.5, but who's counting?

The worst thing that the franchise could do right now would be to replace Burke, because while he may have made a couple of mistakes, he has made a lot of good moves and he should be allowed to finish his plan.

The second worst thing, or maybe the first, would be to tell Burke he has to make the playoffs or else next year. We don't need a bandaid on the rebuild, they need to stay the course.

The problem with the media pressure is that it is going to force a player move of some kind that may not be helpful.

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03-31-2012, 09:13 AM
  #29
Mike Jones
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
This is Burke's summer of change. It wont shock me at all if Dion and Kessel are gone by next season.
The past 3-4 offseasons have been "summers of change" and opportunities to make serious moves to improve the roster and look where that's left the team. What's one more kick at the can going to accomplish?

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03-31-2012, 09:13 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
It wont shock me at all if Dion and Kessel are gone by next season.
lol good one

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03-31-2012, 09:15 AM
  #31
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Not necessarily. If he drafts a #1 center, is able to add a decent goaltender, and maybe signs Schultz...he could turn around his reputation. He has to convince people that he wants to rebuild the right way.
Does he really want to rebuild the right way? Is there any indication of that? The only rebuild I see coming (And nothing he's done so far has pointed to a legitimate rebuild - only a fiddling around with pieces of a messed up puzzle) is one he's forced into by new ownership. That is, if they want him to do the work.

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03-31-2012, 09:17 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Dayjobdave View Post
Actually closer to 7.5, but who's counting?
I think I'm going to be sick.

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Originally Posted by Dayjobdave View Post
The worst thing that the franchise could do right now would be to replace Burke, because while he may have made a couple of mistakes, he has made a lot of good moves and he should be allowed to finish his plan.
What plan?

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Originally Posted by Dayjobdave View Post
The second worst thing, or maybe the first, would be to tell Burke he has to make the playoffs or else next year. We don't need a bandaid on the rebuild, they need to stay the course.
That's the problem right there. According to Burke, this was never a rebuild. It was a retool. He never had it in his head to tear the thing down and start from scratch, when it was obvious that it's exactly what was needed. He doomed himself from the start.

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Originally Posted by Dayjobdave View Post
The problem with the media pressure is that it is going to force a player move of some kind that may not be helpful.
Total BS. If Burke allows media pressure, no matter how harsh or great, to dictate what moves he will and will not make, he needs to be fired immediately.

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03-31-2012, 09:22 AM
  #33
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If Burke said "we're going to be rebuilding for five years", that would apparently have made all the difference for a lot of people.

I'm really not sure how to take that.

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03-31-2012, 09:23 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by dubey View Post
lol good one
It wont. Im not even in favour of it. But it wont shock me one bit.

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03-31-2012, 09:28 AM
  #35
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THIS, and it's why the Canadiens have been the organization in the NHL with the most class. At least until recently, oh and it kills me to say that being a life long Hab hater.
I thought how they've treated Cunneyworth has been classless.

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03-31-2012, 09:29 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Espher View Post
If Burke said "we're going to be rebuilding for five years", that would apparently have made all the difference for a lot of people.

I'm really not sure how to take that.
It would have shown he knew what he was talking about. He would catch a ton of flak for trading draft picks when he is going to be building for the next 5 years. Easy to write a cheque when you're MLSE. Difficult to develop your own picks.

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03-31-2012, 09:30 AM
  #37
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The only good thing to come out of this is Leafs will probably be able to draft that #1 center or #1 defencemen out of this. At least a goalie doesn't need to be picked up that high. Heck Reimer could even rebound next season. People forget Price struggled for the next 2 seasons after his rookie year.

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03-31-2012, 09:30 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
I think I'm going to be sick.



What plan?



That's the problem right there. According to Burke, this was never a rebuild. It was a retool. He never had it in his head to tear the thing down and start from scratch, when it was obvious that it's exactly what was needed. He doomed himself from the start.



Total BS. If Burke allows media pressure, no matter how harsh or great, to dictate what moves he will and will not make, he needs to be fired immediately.
I think for the most part they have built through the acquisition of young assets from a variety of sources. I think the results are beginning to show themselves on the Marlies, and in little flickers on the big club.

I know he said he didn't think he had to tear the whole thing apart. But obviously he came to the understanding that he did need to, because that's what he did. We've been in a full rebuild ever since.

Yes I am aware we started that full rebuild up Phil Kessel and down two first round picks. But since that deal, every deal has made us younger.

When members of MLSE management say they've never seen this much media pressure, i do start to worry that an edict to make the playoffs or else could be floating around. That's what scares me.

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03-31-2012, 09:31 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
It wont. Im not even in favour of it. But it wont shock me one bit.
Those two are foundations of Burke's team

If he considers trading them away he might as well resign and let the next guy do it

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03-31-2012, 09:35 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
It would have shown he knew what he was talking about. He would catch a ton of flak for trading draft picks when he is going to be building for the next 5 years. Easy to write a cheque when you're MLSE. Difficult to develop your own picks.
With the exception of one trade (maybe two if you include Stalberg going out for Versteeg) and the signing of free agents hoping to contend, the path taken has essentially been the same as a rebuild. We've acquired prospects and talent through trades that likely would not have been made if we were liquidating the farm and/or playing (and likely ruining, with our track record) the kids, we've still had several picks in high rounds (seven first rounders, despite trading two of ours away), and so forth.

I really have trouble buying that if he'd said rebuild instead of retool, even though he's ostensibly gone the rebuild path (developing his prospects in the AHL instead of splitting the roster between the NHL and AHL as, say, Edmonton), people suddenly would have been okay with it. I think the Kessel trade still bugs a lot of people, and that's the core reason people are mad, to the point that they don't even consider plausible roster/move permutations had it not happened or had the path been 'different'.

The Leafs don't add Kessel, and get Hall/Seguin. They don't trade Stalberg (and other assets) for for Versteeg, keeping Stalberg and not getting Percy and Leivo (in the later Versteeg deal). They (possibly) don't make the Phaneuf trade, keeping Stajan and White in place of Phaneuf and Keith Aulie/Ashton (if we did make the Phaneuf trade we'd likely have kept Aulie, since we wouldn't have the D we have). They likely don't sign Komisarek or Beauchemin (thus not getting Lupul and Garinder). They certainly don't sign Lebda, though we might still have a shot at Franson/Lombardi since that was a dollars and cents deal. They probably don't sign Armstrong or Connolly, and maybe don't take a flyer on MacArthur, so you can't say we'd have all those extra first round picks we were offered. The list goes on and on...

Of course, some of these prospect acquisitions would be replaced/offset by draft picks and future college FA signings, but again, that's just a substitution, not a 'better outcome'. I honestly do not believe the current status of the Leafs prospect pool (and the performance of the NHL team) would be tangibly better had we gone into a full rebuilding mode. The team this year certainly wouldn't have played on the high end for 55 games before having a catastrophic nosedive.


Last edited by Espher: 03-31-2012 at 09:46 AM.
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03-31-2012, 09:36 AM
  #41
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Oh, look at dreger. Burkie inside man. BARF!!!! The FANS will have the last word. If the Leafs get killed in their last remaining games, be sure the roof will come off.

Do I want Burkie gone? No. I'll give him one remaining year, but if things don't improve, he should be gone.

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03-31-2012, 09:36 AM
  #42
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Despite people wanting huge changes, there's not much Burke can do. He can buy-out or bury Komi in the minors (I believe he will ship him out this summer) try to sign Shultz and make a trade, but really there's only so much he can do. The UFa list stinks and his cap room isn't huge.

And no, Dion and Phil aren't going anywhere.

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03-31-2012, 09:36 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
Those two are foundations of Burke's team

If he considers trading them away he might as well resign and let the next guy do it
Why?

Plans can change. If the foundation isnt working, fix it.

I admit Kessel is a very long shot, but Dion I dont think is so safe. Dreger (FWIW) said our safest asset is our 1st. Everything else is fair game.

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03-31-2012, 09:39 AM
  #44
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Hamilton has been a very good team for years until this year.

I read Leafs' future is looking good because the Marlies are 6th.in the AHL. Hamilton has been 6th., 2nd., 6th. previous 3 years.

Not only that but the Habs are going to beat the Leafs at being worse this year.


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03-31-2012, 09:40 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Espher View Post
With the exception of one trade (maybe two if you include Stalberg going out for Versteeg) and the signing of free agents hoping to contend, the path taken has essentially been the same as a rebuild. We've acquired prospects and talent through trades that likely would not have been made if we were liquidating the farm and/or playing (and likely ruining, with our track record) the kids, we've still had several picks in high rounds (seven first rounders, despite trading two of ours away), and so forth.

I really have trouble buying that if he'd said rebuild instead of retool, even though he's ostensibly gone the rebuild path (developing his prospects in the AHL instead of splitting the roster between the NHL and AHL as, say, Edmonton), people suddenly would have been okay with it. I think the Kessel trade still bugs a lot of people, and that's the core reason people are mad, to the point that they don't even consider plausible roster/move permutations had it not happened or had the path been 'different'.
Kessel is a great asset the problem is if you're going to take 5 years to rebuild. You signed your center piece to a 5 year deal. Now you have a problem, you are ready to contend and you have to resign your star. What if he doesn't resign? That's the problem with the Kessel deal. We have to resign him if we don't what a waste.

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03-31-2012, 09:40 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Why?

Plans can change. If the foundation isnt working, fix it.

I admit Kessel is a very long shot, but Dion I dont think is so safe. Dreger (FWIW) said our safest asset is our 1st. Everything else is fair game.
Just think it would be hard for him to justify trading either of them

Especially considering how much he gave up for Kessel and how he's near the top of the league in scoring at a young age.

And then you have have Phaneuf who they've committed the captaincy to. We've seen captains traded before but can't see that happening to Phaneuf so soon.

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03-31-2012, 09:44 AM
  #47
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I don't support a lot of the moves by Burke, but i love him as our GM.

give him a few more years, i don't even mind being in the lottery the next couple of years.
I think next year there will be playoffs. It would take incompetence beyond anything we've seen in 50 years in Leafs' management to miss again.

If his team is not in the playoffs next year he will indoubtedly be the worst GM in my years of watching this team.

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03-31-2012, 09:45 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
Kessel is a great asset the problem is if you're going to take 5 years to rebuild. You signed your center piece to a 5 year deal. Now you have a problem, you are ready to contend and you have to resign your star. What if he doesn't resign? That's the problem with the Kessel deal. We have to resign him if we don't what a waste.
But what if he does re-sign? Is the trade suddenly good?

I guess one upshot to our hypothetical draft of a player like Hall/Seguin is that if the RFA doesn't want to be here (for the reasons Kessel likely wouldn't want to be) we could get a respectable return on him like Boston did on Kessel and hope the team does worse than we expect so we can get another top-flight talent out of our failed draft selection...

The Kessel deal is really the only major difference between a rebuild and Burke's retool plan (which I honestly think he took a step back from after the first season). I edited my last post with stuff reasoning why I feel that's the case, but I took a bit too long to type it I guess.

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03-31-2012, 09:46 AM
  #49
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I think that Bell/Rogers when they take over aren't going to be keen to pay someone after they fire them. Wouldn't surprise me (yea I said it before lol) Burke next year is asked to "resign" from GM position if he doesn't make the playoffs, but still keeps President title. Nonis (or one of the others) gets named GM.

Now the argument of Burke still making decisions would still be there-but it would do 2 things: Have Burke go to the remainder of his contract; he would no longer be the 'face' of the Leafs (Nonis would become that), and I think with his calm, quiet demeanor, Bell/Rogers would prefer Nonis, who doesn't get antagonistic with the media, doesn't cause a stir.

It may not be Nonis-but with him, Loiselle, Dudley and a couple of other GM capables-it answers the question if Burke gets fired, one of those gents will take over IMO

The other interesting thing: does Rogers attempt to suggest, like with the Jays-if they rebuilding they don't need to spend to the cap, and would Bell agree with that....

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03-31-2012, 09:49 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
It may not be Nonis-but with him, Loiselle, Dudley and a couple of other GM capables-it answers the question if Burke gets fired, one of those gents will take over IMO
Turf Burke, then replace him with one of several people that Burke relies on to make deals and help manage the roster. If you have a problem with Burke, and these guys all have their hands in the cookie jar, how do you think this helps us?

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