My brother mentioned running into an old buddy of his that is now an agent and represents a close friend of theirs (Ryan Duncan), who dominated most of their conversation, among others--the recently signed Tyler Bunz being one of these others.
FWIW, this guy said that the Oilers management team actually has a good reputation around the league as being very professional and pleasant to deal with.
Nobody wants to hear your "positivity" get that stuff out of here.
I definitely think there is justification in criticizing Tambellini's performance and impact on the Oilers reputation.
a) The oilers have finished 30th, 30th and 28th (currently). This is the ultimate argument - accomplishment or lack there of. It can be argued that the second year (2010-11) was an intentional tanking. But the first year (Pat Quinn) most certainly was not.
c) Pat Quinn. Terrible decision as coach. His coaching performance in one year and last place finish was worst than any year by Mactavish. Imo, he was the worst Oilers coach since George Burnett.
I applaud your post and agree wholeheartedly . Except I think its a lot worse than your post suggests .
For example your point (a) states that the Quinn year was "most certainly" not a tank .
Yet your point (c) makes it clear that even hiring Quinn in the first place is a suspect decision for a team trying to win games .
The team finished with 62 points that season narrowly missing a record worst ever franchise point total (60).
Now have a look at the roster they gave the man to work with.
Penner, the much maligned, led the team by far with 63 points.
Gagner, the much maligned, was a distant second with 41 points.
Brule, since cast aside as a hopeless case, had 37 points and good old Horc had 36.
Top five scorers combined for 177 points.
Zach Stortini dressed for 77 games, POS had 73, Potulny 64, Nilsson 60, Moreau 76, JFJ 50 and MAP 35 games.
The blueline featured big minutes in 72 games from Strudwick and 42 from Chorney.
Grebs, Staios, Visnovsky and Souray all missed half or more of the season.
And guys like Peckham, Arsene and Aaron Johnson all played around 15 games each.
And best of all, JDD and Dubnyk had 67 starts between them . Combined GAA - 3.42 / combined SV% 0.895 .
Patt Quinn in his prime couldn't have coached that team to anything other than a last place finish.
I cannot believe that anyone could look at that roster objectively and say that isn't an intentional tank with Patt Quinn dressed up in the scapegoat suit .
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The Oilers did mention "playoffs" at the start of this season. Entirely revisionist history by Stauffer and Lowe to suggest now that the Oilers never thought the playoffs were likely.
Absolutely. I can't remember a season (even the one above on which they ran with the worst roster in the NHL by far) that Tamby didn't stand up on opening day with a big smirk on his face and say that the goal was to make the playoffs .
Too bad for him he doesn't seem to realize that this time he's the guy in the scapegoat suit .
The Oilers are already rolling out the media propaganda for next year except they've done a 180 on their expectations and goals. No more silly aspirations like, I don't know... actual improvement in the standings.
The Oilers are already rolling out the media propaganda for next year except they've done a 180 on their expectations and goals. No more silly aspirations like, I don't know... actual improvement in the standings.
After being rejected by a girl when you asked her to the prom, did you fly to her cabin and try to beg her to join you?
If I had billions of dollars I might. Do you always give up when someone says no the first time???? I hope not.
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Originally Posted by Master Lok
I definitely think there is justification in criticizing Tambellini's performance and impact on the Oilers reputation.
a) The oilers have finished 30th, 30th and 28th (currently). This is the ultimate argument - accomplishment or lack there of. It can be argued that the second year (2010-11) was an intentional tanking. But the first year (Pat Quinn) most certainly was not, and the Oilers did mention "playoffs" at the start of this season. Entirely revisionist history by Stauffer and Lowe to suggest now that the Oilers never thought the playoffs were likely.
b) Khabibulin contract. Signing an overage goalie to a four year term is simply dumb. I cannot state it any other way. At the point in time, Khabibulin was still a mediocre starter, and a contract for two years would have been fine. Four years? yeesh.
c) Pat Quinn. Terrible decision as coach. His coaching performance in one year and last place finish was worst than any year by Mactavish. Imo, he was the worst Oilers coach since George Burnett.
(a) And when the Oilers said "Rebuild" did you expect more cup runs???? the first year was brought on by a long rash of injuries as well as poor on ice performances, no? That's how I remember it.
(b) Khabi's contract 4 years long, yes we all shook our heads. But we have all been heard chanting Khabi Khabi this year many times. I think its obvious he was brought in to be a mentor for Dubnyk. I think the Oilers thought Dubby would run with the ball a little bit more this season. He struggled a bit off the start which made Renney lean on Khabi more than he wanted to. For most of the season Khabi leaned right back and played some great hockey. Now Dubby is playing great like some of us expected him to do at the beggining of the year. Hoefully we see more of this next year. with Khabi backing up. The Following year #1 is all Dubnyks if he deserves it, or they have to find another #1. Doesn't seem so bad to me if you look at it like that.
(c)Quinn was relived of his duties after one season, the man admitted to making a mistake. We all thought that Quinn would be a great coach for the young kids on the team that year. We were all wrong. As mentioned he also didn't have much to work with.
(d)Fraser - They gave up a 6th for him and got Smyth for him when they traded him.
Belanger - has been disappointing this season but i think they still sign him if you go back to the offseason. Any time you can add a center with his abilty to win draws you have to do it, especially if that is your weak spot.
Foster - Wasn't the best signing no, but really not that bad. Its not like they made him captain. He was only here one year.
Barker - Cmon, any time you get a chance to take on a reclamation project of a 3rd overall pick you do it. There was no harm in this signing. Either it worked and we had a top 2 d man. Or it didn't and we let him walk. this much is obvious.
Khabibulin - You already used this on, but i guess if your word count is higher your point is more valid?
Strudwick - I never had a problem with this. He was a great 6/7 guy who could help mentor the young kids and provide leadership. He was resigned as needed. Once he wasn't they let him walk.
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Originally Posted by Master Lok
Clearly, you do not seem to recall what Souray's complaints were to come to such a ridiculous conclusion (i.e. "holding his hand while he sleeps.")
1 - Oiler management pressured him to play while Souray felt he was still injured.
2 - treatment of players by the management. I'm not saying that Souray was right or wrong, but here is a complaint by an NHL player regarding the lack of communication from management. It's not the first time or rumor out there. In a thread criticizing Tambellini's management style, I think it's a valid argument.
1) does "When are you going to be able to play?" sound pressuring to you? It sounds like a simple question. They signed him as a healthy player and were probably a little caught off guard when he came to camp injured. I would have been a bit put off as well.
2) If I recall correctly Lowe was GM when Pronger wanted out.
I hear nothing but singing praise about the Oilers from Fedun in his rehabilitation. He's just a prospect.
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo
The Oilers are already rolling out the media propaganda for next year except they've done a 180 on their expectations and goals. No more silly aspirations like, I don't know... actual improvement in the standings.
Basically, please don't be mad, Edmonton. We's gonnas suck next year too.
The article says that they are pretty much set up front. I think we would all agree to that, some might say as long as the coach uses the properly. There are obvious holes on D, and less obvious holes in goal as of late.
The current situation on Defence does not eliminate the idea of adding a body or 2 or 3 for next season.Which is all this team needs to turn things the right way.
I am shocked that most of the people posting in this thread are not concerned about the administrative and PR mistakes the organization has made. The lack of detail that the organization has displayed is indicative of an organization that is flying by the seat of their pants.
I actually support how the team has been built over the last few years, save for a few exceptions. But no GM is going to bat 1000.
I am convinced we need a different team to bring it to the next level. We need a leader in the GM spot. Someone that is going to hold people accountable, someone that exudes leadership qualities, and someone that can get the media and other stakeholders on his side. Tambo may have a good vision of where the team is going, and may be a smart hockey guy, but that is not enough for me as I don't think that he has any of the aforementioned qualities.
(a) And when the Oilers said "Rebuild" did you expect more cup runs???? the first year was brought on by a long rash of injuries as well as poor on ice performances, no? That's how I remember it.
Your memory is 100% wrong. There was injuries, but every team has injuries. as harpoon mentioned in the post above, the team was built incredibly poorly. With a terrible coach that was a decade out of touch with the modern NHL.
The Quinn year was NOT the rebuild year. The Rebuild was only mentioned when the Oilers was on the way to last place later in the year after a failure of epic proportions.
Look at Ottawa - they're in the playoffs after a similarly dismal year last year where their owner Eugene Melnyk mentioned "Rebuild" as well. A Rebuild is NOT an excuse to be a lottery team for the next several seasons.
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge
(b) Khabi's contract 4 years long, yes we all shook our heads. But we have all been heard chanting Khabi Khabi this year many times. I think its obvious he was brought in to be a mentor for Dubnyk. I think the Oilers thought Dubby would run with the ball a little bit more this season. He struggled a bit off the start which made Renney lean on Khabi more than he wanted to. For most of the season Khabi leaned right back and played some great hockey. Now Dubby is playing great like some of us expected him to do at the beggining of the year. Hoefully we see more of this next year. with Khabi backing up. The Following year #1 is all Dubnyks if he deserves it, or they have to find another #1. Doesn't seem so bad to me if you look at it like that.
Once again you are 100% incorrect. Your viewpoint is ludicrous. Did you even watch the games? Four year contract for an overage mediocre starter is inexcusable. Since your memory has proven to be faulty, let me help you out.
Khabibulin's first year he played 18 games in total as he was injured constantly. Should this have been a surprise? No because he was also injured in Chicago a fair amount and he was only getting older. And then the Oilers had to depend upon rookie goaltenders instead - always a recipe for disaster.
Khabibulin's second year (2010-11), he started 42 games had a miserable 10 wins with 32 losses with one of the leagues worst 3.40 GAA and 0.890 Save percentage. That was undoubtedly, one of the leagues worst goaltending performances last year. Below 0.900 save percentage is abysmal imo.
This year (his third year), Khabibulin had a hot start and then came crashing down to earth. Since Christmas (up to March 22), compare the two goaltenders records.
one win in 15 games - is that enough of a wakeup call for you? Or are you still cheering Khabi khabi somewhere while closing your eyes to the debacle on the ice and sipping the Khabibulin koolaid?
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge
(c)Quinn was relived of his duties after one season, the man admitted to making a mistake. We all thought that Quinn would be a great coach for the young kids on the team that year. We were all wrong. As mentioned he also didn't have much to work with.
Wrong again. There was definitely people who had huge reservations about hiring a guy who was so out of touch with modern day NHL. I was one of them. I recall I was not alone in my concerns with Quinn. Anyone who thought that Quinn would be a good coach for young players had no clue. Just because Quinn coached Hockey Canada was meaningless as it was mostly Quinn's assistant coaches who had most contact with the younger players and did most of the coaching. He hadn't done any serious coaching for years.
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge
(d)Fraser - They gave up a 6th for him and got Smyth for him when they traded him.
What on earth does it matter what he got traded for? That does not excuse that Tambellini signed Fraser for a reason - to provide a stable defensive centre for the fourthline and Fraser failed in that. Good lord man - do you have a clue?
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge
Belanger - has been disappointing this season but i think they still sign him if you go back to the offseason. Any time you can add a center with his abilty to win draws you have to do it, especially if that is your weak spot.
That does not excuse his poor 5v5 production. He has done faceoffs well and little else.
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge
Foster - Wasn't the best signing no, but really not that bad. Its not like they made him captain. He was only here one year.
Ffs, the point is that Tambellini continues to bring in players who fail to perform here. "not really that bad" - did you suffer a concussion for such a terrible memory? Foster was a liability defensively and could not provide the offense that he was expected. 100% failure.
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge
Barker - Cmon, any time you get a chance to take on a reclamation project of a 3rd overall pick you do it. There was no harm in this signing. Either it worked and we had a top 2 d man. Or it didn't and we let him walk. this much is obvious.
no harm in the signing? So why are the Oilers in 28th place again this season? Taken alone, Barker as a reclamation project makes sense. However in the larger scope, Barker as a reclamation project for a THIRD PAIRING dman makes sense. Not with an expectation that Barker should be in the Oilers top 4. Instead the Oilers gambled that Barker should be in the top 4, Barker crashed and burned and so did the Oilers season.
You know the Oilers is finishing as the third worst team in the league. Is that sinking in yet or are you still living in denial?
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge
Khabibulin - You already used this on, but i guess if your word count is higher your point is more valid?
Certainly since your memory and logic isn't valid at all. maybe cheer "khabi khabi" some more and the world will be a better place.
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge
Strudwick - I never had a problem with this. He was a great 6/7 guy who could help mentor the young kids and provide leadership. He was resigned as needed. Once he wasn't they let him walk.
No, the Oilers finished 30th because they depended on players like Strudwick to be a solid third pairing defender on too many nights. He was one of the leagues worst defenders and consequently, the oilers finished as the leagues worst team last year. There is a correlation.
I read the last line of that book. If you really think Strudwick was the problem then I don't know that you know what the hell you are talking about. 3rd pairing d-men aren't the difference between a 30th place team and a non-lotto team.
I read the last line of that book. If you really think Strudwick was the problem then I don't know that you know what the hell you are talking about. 3rd pairing d-men aren't the difference between a 30th place team and a non-lotto team.
I'm not saying Strudwick was THE Problem. I'm saying that Strudwick was A problem. There's a reason that the Oilers finished last in the league. One of them was because the defense wasn't good enough. Strudwick was not good enough to be a third pairing defender. He wasn't the only member of the defense that wasn't good enough.
Your memory is 100% wrong. There was injuries, but every team has injuries. as harpoon mentioned in the post above, the team was built incredibly poorly. With a terrible coach that was a decade out of touch with the modern NHL.
They lost 530 man games in 2010, 10 players had season ending injuries including their best forward, their best defense man and their starting goalie. 10 players done for the season means you have to call up a whole 2 lines to replace them. Not many if any team in the NHL could have success under those circumstances. http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=430126
Every team has injuries, but not like the Oilers did in 2009-10.
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The Quinn year was NOT the rebuild year. The Rebuild was only mentioned when the Oilers was on the way to last place later in the year after a failure of epic proportions.
I never said that the Quinn year was the rebuilding year. The Quinn year was the one that allowed them to start the rebuild around Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin which ever they would end up with.
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Look at Ottawa - they're in the playoffs after a similarly dismal year last year where their owner Eugene Melnyk mentioned "Rebuild" as well. A Rebuild is NOT an excuse to be a lottery team for the next several seasons.
Where on the Oilers did you see a Daniel Alfredsson, Milan Michalek, Jason Spezza, or a Sergei Gonchar? Hemsky is the only player the Oilers had that you could mention in the same sentence as those guys. Which goalie has stepped up and played as good as Anderson?
Tambi didn't asked to be given a crappy hand, he had Lowe to thank for that. His best option was to fold it and start over. The Senators didn't rebuild as much as just retool. Rebuilding would have seen them trade the players I mentioned above for young promising prospects or draft picks.
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Once again you are 100% incorrect. Your viewpoint is ludicrous. Did you even watch the games? Four year contract for an overage mediocre starter is inexcusable. Since your memory has proven to be faulty, let me help you out.
Khabibulin's first year he played 18 games in total as he was injured constantly. Should this have been a surprise? No because he was also injured in Chicago a fair amount and he was only getting older. And then the Oilers had to depend upon rookie goaltenders instead - always a recipe for disaster.
Khabibulin's second year (2010-11), he started 42 games had a miserable 10 wins with 32 losses with one of the leagues worst 3.40 GAA and 0.890 Save percentage. That was undoubtedly, one of the leagues worst goaltending performances last year. Below 0.900 save percentage is abysmal imo.
This year (his third year), Khabibulin had a hot start and then came crashing down to earth. Since Christmas (up to March 22), compare the two goaltenders records.
one win in 15 games - is that enough of a wakeup call for you? Or are you still cheering Khabi khabi somewhere while closing your eyes to the debacle on the ice and sipping the Khabibulin koolaid?
I never said that Khabi was still playing well. I said he played well at the beginning of the season. My choice of words was probably a bit off when i said most of the season. I know he hasn't been very good for quite some time. 10-20 games into the season he was the only reason the Oilers were in 1st place though.
I agreed that his contract was too long. I said that I shook my head when they announced a 4 year deal. 2 years, maybe 3 would have seemed more reasonable.
How can i be 100% incorrect when I agree with you on some of those points? Are you admitting you are wrong as well?
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Wrong again. There was definitely people who had huge reservations about hiring a guy who was so out of touch with modern day NHL. I was one of them. I recall I was not alone in my concerns with Quinn. Anyone who thought that Quinn would be a good coach for young players had no clue. Just because Quinn coached Hockey Canada was meaningless as it was mostly Quinn's assistant coaches who had most contact with the younger players and did most of the coaching. He hadn't done any serious coaching for years.
Good for you, you were right. I applaud you. Give yourself a pat on the back. Still doesn't change the fact that there was a generally positive feeling about bringing him in.
I wasn't 100% sold on Quinn either, but I thought with Renney as associate coach that he would be able to handle most of the tactic type stuff and Quinn could be more of a motivator/teacher. It didn't work out.
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What on earth does it matter what he got traded for? That does not excuse that Tambellini signed Fraser for a reason - to provide a stable defensive centre for the fourthline and Fraser failed in that. Good lord man - do you have a clue?
Fraser failed in that. Not Tambellini. It was completely reasonable that Fraser could come in after winning a cup with the hawks and be a good 4th line guy for the Oilers.
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That does not excuse his poor 5v5 production. He has done faceoffs well and little else.
I agree, I expected more out of Belanger here. Didn't you??? If he had put up 35-40 points like he has done for the last 8 or 9 years wouldn't you be happy with his acquisition? What would possibly lead you to believe that his production would be cut down 20-25 points this season?
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Ffs, the point is that Tambellini continues to bring in players who fail to perform here. "not really that bad" - did you suffer a concussion for such a terrible memory? Foster was a liability defensively and could not provide the offense that he was expected. 100% failure.
So again another player underperformed on a bad team.
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no harm in the signing? So why are the Oilers in 28th place again this season? Taken alone, Barker as a reclamation project makes sense. However in the larger scope, Barker as a reclamation project for a THIRD PAIRING dman makes sense. Not with an expectation that Barker should be in the Oilers top 4. Instead the Oilers gambled that Barker should be in the top 4, Barker crashed and burned and so did the Oilers season.
You know the Oilers is finishing as the third worst team in the league. Is that sinking in yet or are you still living in denial?
What did you expect the Oilers to do this season??? make the playoffs? We all knew that wasn't going to happen, and most of us didn't expect it to happen this year.
If you don't have expectations to make the playoffs why not take a flyer on a player who once put up 40 points in a season from the point? What if he panned out? would it still have been a bad move? They were looking to get lucky and get a top 4 D for free.
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Certainly since your memory and logic isn't valid at all. maybe cheer "khabi khabi" some more and the world will be a better place.
.....
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No, the Oilers finished 30th because they depended on players like Strudwick to be a solid third pairing defender on too many nights. He was one of the leagues worst defenders and consequently, the oilers finished as the leagues worst team last year. There is a correlation.
So if you had a better 6/7 guy in his spot the Oilers would have made the playoffs???
If you can't see that the team that Tambellini inherited was a losing hand then there is no sense responding to your posts. He tried to fix it through free agency, he tried to fix it through trades. None of those worked. No matter what he did no one worth signing wanted to come here. Then he was presented with the opportunity to draft Taylor or Tyler. Finally something worth building around. What would have you done????? Stuck hall into an aging underachieving locker room and said good luck?
I think he did the right thing in tearing it down and starting with Hall, and Eberle. Don't you?
Over the last 2 years its been obvious to all that there are holes in this team. Could Tambellini have patched them with acceptable players? probably. But at what cost? Do you have to trade away some of your young stars? probably. If you fill in some holes on D you probably don't see Smid blossom this year because you gave his minutes to someone else. You don't see Petry turn into a good player either because he's on the farm.
the last 2 seasons have been about developing young talent, not winning. Let your young kids play in all kinds of different situations and see how they do, let them grow together and learn together. This obviously comes with some low times, as well as some high times. In the end the last 2 years it has been lower than high, but most of us expected that.
Next year is the year though. Next year Tambellini has to prove what kind of GM he is. Holes need to be filled on the back end, there is no more time for development in the NHL. If your not ready you will be in the AHL and can develop there. Next year if this team doesn't take a significant step forward i will be on the same boat as you with my fire Tambellini sign.
its not like I think this team has been good for the last 3 years, I just take it for what it is, a rebuild. We knew this wasn't going to be pretty.
Ottawa's situation isn't even comparable to the Oilers, so it's pointless to bring up.
I agree
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Originally Posted by dobiezeke
but Ottawa's situation was comparable and that's why it was brought up.
it wasn't really comparable. As i mentioned above they had and still have a handful of good players. Daniel Alfredsson, Milan Michalek, Jason Spezza, and Sergei Gonchar. The Only Oiler who fits into that group could be Hemsky.
it wasn't really comparable. As i mentioned above they had and still have a handful of good players. Daniel Alfredsson, Milan Michalek, Jason Spezza, and Sergei Gonchar. The Only Oiler who fits into that group could be Hemsky.
but Ottawa's situation was comparable and that's why it was brought up.
No, not really. They already had Spezza, a #1 center, and their rebuild consisted of solidifying their backend first. We're going about it the opposite way and so it's taking a bit longer, which is okay because history has shown that great defensemen can be found and developed from within the 2nd/3rd rounds. Petry isn't elite yet but his growth has been exponential this season and that looks good for our developmental system. The same could happen with Gernat, Marincin, and Klefbom. On the flipside, elite forwards are more difficult to obtain without drafting high. If I had a chance to go back and pick Larsson or Seguin (or Gudbranson), I would go Hall, RNH every time and unless Murray is the bpa this draft, I'm picking Grigorenko too.
