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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 7.0

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Old
04-06-2012, 01:03 AM
  #876
Guilliam
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Originally Posted by NRG87 View Post
It's great that we've guaranteed a bottom 3 finish (and a top 4 pick), but we can't lose focus of operation tank. What is this about wanting the Habs to beat the Leafs???

1. We want to give the Leafs 2 points to make sure they can't leapfrog us if they win the lottery.

2. Picking 2nd is better than picking 3rd.

3. Finishing 29th means better odds at winning the lottery.

4. Ending up with the 2nd overall pick makes trading for the 1st overall pick easier.

5. The Oilers CAN beat Vancouver. Anything is possible.



THE TANK LIVES ON MY BRETHREN!!!
You actually expect people here to cheer FOR the leafs AGAINST the Habs?

GTFO

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04-06-2012, 01:57 AM
  #877
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Remember, the head scout who will more than likely be in charge at this draft is the same one that took Price 5th overall in 2005. Nobody here should get too attached to an obvious need.

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04-06-2012, 02:00 AM
  #878
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Originally Posted by Tusk View Post
Remember, the head scout who will more than likely be in charge at this draft is the same one that took Price 5th overall in 2005. Nobody here should get too attached to an obvious need.
Don't remind me.

And I say this as a Price lover to the max.

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04-06-2012, 02:15 AM
  #879
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
I don't know about that. Murray is considered the best of a very deep defensman draft. He garners a lot of comparisons to Scott Niedermeyer and will likely be the top defensman drafted. If not be Edmonton than by Montreal. I really doubt he slips past top 4 much less top 3. He really is a special player and there are a tonne of articles like this one out there that speak to his skill set.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=616744

I'm no scout but like I said, he's considered the best of a deep defensive draft and that's gotta count for something.
That nails Murray for me, draft a Neil Young fan over BPA any day of the week, imagine what he could do for Leblanc's playlist? It's not too often a hockey player has taste.

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04-06-2012, 02:50 AM
  #880
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BPA is the choice the Habs will make whether that's Grigorenko, Yakupov or Dumba is the question?Columbus takes Forsberg,Edmonton takes Murray and the Habs have all the other players to pick from.

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04-06-2012, 03:13 AM
  #881
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You guys realize this is Edmonton right? Their focus has always been offense. I think draft a d-man (Murray) only if they fall to 3 or 4 overall pick. If they can keep 2nd overall, they're taking the Russian centreman.

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04-06-2012, 03:30 AM
  #882
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You guys realize this is Edmonton right? Their focus has always been offense. I think draft a d-man (Murray) only if they fall to 3 or 4 overall pick. If they can keep 2nd overall, they're taking the Russian centreman.
No they wont... they wont pass on a D man in their current situation, whether they finish with a 2nd or 3rd pick they're not going to pass their chance on getting a top defencemen.

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04-06-2012, 03:57 AM
  #883
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Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
Charles Hudon disagrees.

Nice find

He was probably trying to impress Casseau in the preseason

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04-06-2012, 04:01 AM
  #884
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
No they wont... they wont pass on a D man in their current situation, whether they finish with a 2nd or 3rd pick they're not going to pass their chance on getting a top defencemen.
I know you badly wish it wasn't the case but that isn't going to happen. Edmonton picks bpa like they always do.

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04-06-2012, 04:03 AM
  #885
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
He had a 20 year old overager who outscored him

A 20 year old overager was as valuable to his production as Yakupov was to Galchenyuk.

Sure we all know that Fredric Roy will not be anything close to Yakupov 5 years from now... but his production as an overager will be just as good as a guy who is 17 and can't even be drafted that season (in Yakupov). Just look at Brendan Shinnimin to see how an overagers production can effect a line.

As for the "bush league" comment, I never said it was. I just get the impression that overall the O and the WHL are deeper.

Stacked Q teams like St. John and Shawinigan will be able to compete in the Mem Cup... but if you take the 10th-12th place team in each league i think the OHL and WHL teams would beat a similarly ranked Q team like Drummondville.

Its just a deeper league overall.
I totally get your point and I agree, but I just think that both our argument washes off the difference in talent level.

That's why I think it's useless to debate on such techniqualities.

Trying to overread in stats like that is pointless.

I'd rather watch both players play and compare that, than stats.

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04-06-2012, 05:04 AM
  #886
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Ya I can totally see Schultz dumping Anaheim to sign up with Edmonton.

I am more interested in Galchenyuk/Forsberg so the fact they want either Murray or Grigorenko doesn't really bother me.




Teubert is a breath away from being a bust and the other two who knows. They don't have a nice defense coming along, they have a few dice rolls that may turn out but also may be nothing. Murray is ready for the NHL right now and watching their transition game (or complete lack thereof) they need him badly.
You had me at ''Murray is ready for the NHL right now''.

He plays guitar and...he's a fan of ''Hey Hey, My My''...sounds quite mature for an 18 year old...


"My favorite song is probably 'Hey Hey, My My,'" Murray said. "I was curious, so I went out and bought a cheap guitar and my roommate taught me. I've been hooked ever since and have pretty much played every day since then."


http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=616744


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 04-06-2012 at 05:12 AM.
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04-06-2012, 05:44 AM
  #887
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we still can be 4th cause of the lottery

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04-06-2012, 06:11 AM
  #888
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we still can be 4th cause of the lottery
Thats impossible, cause we are winning the lottery.

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04-06-2012, 06:13 AM
  #889
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I think many are under estimating how good some of these defensemen are. It isn't necessarily a slam dunk that the 4 forwards come off the board first. Add to the fact that there are question marks concussions, knees and work ethic and those guys could very well fall a little bit.

Columbus may be scared of the russian factor
Edmonton may see that they actually need a defenseman or see that a D BPA.

Screw it....lets just win the lottery and we don't have to worry about anything...Can't wait!

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04-06-2012, 07:15 AM
  #890
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Nothing's really wrong with Schenn(other than the fact that he's been terrible this year), I just didn't/don't think he's worthy of a top 5 pick as a defensive defeseman.
Not many defencemen are, i dont think murray or dumba will go top 5 either.

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04-06-2012, 07:24 AM
  #891
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Edited below

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Old
04-06-2012, 07:26 AM
  #892
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Originally Posted by VL55 View Post
People keep repeating that and still I only hear : ''Oh please, please, leave us the franchise forward! I beg you.''

If the Oilers' scouts project Murray as the next Coffee and Grigorenko as an okay number 1 center, sure they will pick Murray.

But if they project Grigorenko as the next Malkin and or even simply Getzlaf while they believe Murray will just be an okay first pairing D, do you seriously believe they will pick Murray?

It's absurd. They only pick Murray if they genuinely believe he will be a better player than Grigo (or forsberg, Galchenyuk etc.).

That delusion that the Oilers will surely pick Murray is nothing more than a perfect exemple of Lafontaine's fable, The Wolf and the Fox.

Ne nous en moquons point : nous nous laissons séduire
Sur aussi peu de fondement ;
Et chacun croit fort aisément
Ce qu'il craint et ce qu'il désire


The Oilers are not picking Murray just so we can get Grigorenko! They only will pick Murray if they believe he is better than Grigorenko!
The Oilers won't do anyone a favour to their own detriment, so I agree wi your last statement. That being said, they play two different positions and aren't comparable. Yakopov is the best forward in the draft and Murray is the best defensman. They won't get Yakopov but they can get Murray who, oddly enough is not only the best defensive prospect in the draft but fills the biggest hole they have on their team. So by drafting Murray, they're doing themselves a favor, not the Habs.

I'd be just as happy drafting Murray who most everyone says could be the next Niedermeyer to add to our already ridiculously deep defensive prospect pool. Can you imagine a team with PK, Murray, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis etc.in a couple of years?

Like I said in my previous post, I'd be happy with either one of Grigs or Murray but I think Edmonton goes for a D.

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04-06-2012, 07:31 AM
  #893
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Ideally I'd love to trade with Columbus and grab Yakupov. If rumours are true that they're not to fond of drafting a Russian we should be all over that.
Scott Howson came out and blasted that rumors and said it was ridiculous. Then again, he may not be the GM at the draft anyways. Fingers crossed!

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04-06-2012, 07:46 AM
  #894
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
The Oilers won't do anyone a favour to their own detriment...That being said, they play two different positions and aren't comparable. Yakopov is the best forward in the draft and Murray is the best defensman. They won't get Yakopov but they can get Murray who, oddly enough is not only the best defensive prospect in the draft but fills the biggest hole they have on their team. So by drafting Murray, they're doing themselves a favor, not the Habs...
Well said. One question though--is it really so clear that Murray is the best defenceman in the draft?

Yakupov seems to be rated no.1 forward (and player!) in everybody's estimation but among d-men it is harder to find a consensus. Dumba had his supporters, as do a half a dozen other blueliners.

Add to the equation that defencemen--even top rated ones--are often harder to suss out at 18-years of age than forwards. I think you'll agree that the chances of Murray becoming the star he should are somehow less than Yakupov's.

One more thing: I've always felt that on average d-men take longer to develop than forwards. With free agency as early as age 25, and all other things being equal (is it ever really?), does it make any sense to favour a defenceman over a forward?

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04-06-2012, 07:55 AM
  #895
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No they wont... they wont pass on a D man in their current situation, whether they finish with a 2nd or 3rd pick they're not going to pass their chance on getting a top defencemen.
They don't have faith in Sam Gagner and they have no other top 6 C in their system, there is no guarantee.

I think they go BPA in the draft.

They have needs at both centre and defence.

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04-06-2012, 08:00 AM
  #896
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I totally get your point and I agree, but I just think that both our argument washes off the difference in talent level.

That's why I think it's useless to debate on such techniqualities.

Trying to overread in stats like that is pointless.

I'd rather watch both players play and compare that, than stats.
I've seen both players and Galchenyuk definitely has that high end offensive ability. The kid can play.

I don't see the big difference in talent that as one poster said would make one a First line centre and the other a 1b/2a centre.

They play very different styles, but Galchenyuk has the ability to be a game changer down the middle.

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04-06-2012, 08:18 AM
  #897
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Well said. One question though--is it really so clear that Murray is the best defenceman in the draft?

Yakupov seems to be rated no.1 forward (and player!) in everybody's estimation but among d-men it is harder to find a consensus. Dumba had his supporters, as do a half a dozen other blueliners.

Add to the equation that defencemen--even top rated ones--are often harder to suss out at 18-years of age than forwards. I think you'll agree that the chances of Murray becoming the star he should are somehow less than Yakupov's.

One more thing: I've always felt that on average d-men take longer to develop than forwards. With free agency as early as age 25, and all other things being equal (is it ever really?), does it make any sense to favour a defenceman over a forward?
To be honest, I have no idea how good he is relative to the other defensemen. From what I read and hear from scouts and executives they seem to think he's the real deal and NHL ready right now.

I also have no idea if you can quantify how much better he is than the next closest defensman or if he's as far better than Yakopov is to the next forwards. I'm not sure you can quantify that as it depends on what the team is looking for and the system they play. That being said, Murray, a fast moving transition defensman would go part and parcel with Edmontons quick strike offense team IMO.

We'll find out soon enough. In any case, we should be getting a hell of a player this year and an important piece to our already deep in prospect/young core.

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04-06-2012, 08:20 AM
  #898
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Not many defencemen are, i dont think murray or dumba will go top 5 either.
Look at Fowler and Gormley in their draft year. They were suppose to be around the top 5. They slipped to 12 and 13th in the 2010 draft. Even Couturier(not a defenseman) but last year slipped to 8th and he was suppose to be consider top 3 than top 5 and then went 8th to Philadelphia.

Its hard to tell with defenseman. I think its harder personally to get franchise centers with size than defensemen which result in theit possible slides in drafts.


Last edited by BigHabs: 04-06-2012 at 08:35 AM.
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04-06-2012, 08:47 AM
  #899
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Look at Fowler and Gormley in their draft year. They were suppose to be around the top 5. They slipped to 12 and 13th in the 2010 draft. Even Couturier(not a defenseman) but last year slipped to 8th and he was suppose to be consider top 3 than top 5 and then went 8th to Philadelphia.

Its hard to tell with defenseman. I think its harder personally to get franchise centers with size than defensemen which result in theit possible slides in drafts.
I don't think it's gonna happen this year though. Murray will be a top 5 pick for sure IMO. With Fowler and Gormley, you had a player who was soft for a D, and another who's offensive abilities at the NHL level could be low. Add that to the fact that there's only a few good forwards followed by a bunch of D...

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04-06-2012, 08:51 AM
  #900
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I think drafting a defenseman would be a HUGE mistake! We have Subban, Gorges and Emelin who are all under 30 years of age plus we have Nash, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, Bennet and Dietz that are going to play in Hamilton or soon (or already are!).

I think the smartest move would be to draft Yakupov, Grigorenko, Galchenyuk or Forsberg this year and make as a bigger offensive threat going forward.

Just imagine Grigorenko or Galchenyuk centering Pacioretty in the future or Pacioretty as the top winger on the 1st line and Yakupov or Forsberg the top winger on the 2nd line?

With the 32nd/33rd overall draft pick (2nd round) and our other 2nd overall pick (from Nashville) we can take a look at Tom Wilson (RW) and Jordan Schmaltz (D) etc.

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